Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Impairement in ADHD (long)

Hi all, I was wondering if any of you with PG/ADHD kids can share your experience about the specific degree of impairement you see, and where do you draw the line in a child who is so far from the norm and has a brain (and body) that zoom by most people around. We did IQ and achievement testing and there is no useful information there, as she had many correct answers beyond what she needed for ceiling scores across the board on the new SB (5?) and her achievement was equally impressive (she correctly read all words but one on WJIII-Ach, reading comprehension/fluency/spelling all above 7th grade, also middle school in math except the timed calculations). And that was at age 4.1. We tried an OT eval that meant more wasted money, as they looked mostly for deficits and sensory defensiveness. Dd has always been incredibly advanced in her motor skills, very coordinated, and just naturally talented at sports (well, that and pretty much everything else she tries, which makes her unmotivated, but that's a different story). All the tests came back above average, but the OT said she is a sensory seeking child (that is true); we tried therapy a couple of times but again the therapy seems to be geared toward kids with sensory defensiveness, not those looking for the next adrenaline rush, and her cognitive strenghts seem to be forgotten by all when choosing how to approach therapy. We also tried discussing the issue with several specialists (big names) but it all seems incredibly subjective. I have been told, again and again, that it is all about what we say/describe on behavioral checklists and the degree of impairement. What I have not heard is where do you draw the line between out there PG with a lot of mental and physical energy and the PG/ADHD child. We homeschool, so we can't get a teacher perspective, and really dd's behavior varies so much with the setting that the information would differ a lot depending on the day/class/teacher/topic/ambient stimulation, etc.
This is getting too long, but in a nutshell dd has a hard time being in structured classes with age peers like gymnastics and swimming, but way less to no issues in academic classes with much older gifted kids through our gifted homeschoolers group. She takes online classes through G3, A3, and a pre-algebra class are she loves them, gets top grades and did not have a hard time sitting down and paying attention for 2 hrs when we happened to have 2 of these classes back-to-back. She is a voracious reader who can read hundreds of pages in one sitting and was able to go through a timed multiple choice exam last year at 4.5, by herself in an amphitheater with hundreds of kids (first round of a regional spelling bee)and qualify for the next round with a perfect score. And still, we had to drop countless gymnastics classes, swimming, ballet, piano, and art, because the teacher/coach complained she was not listening, walking off, not paying attention, not practicing etc, and most of them don't want to deal with a child who asks too many questions and needs something to do while waiting in line. Dd is now 5.2 and a new DYS.
If you made it through, I'd really appreciate your thoughts. Thanks!

I don't think that there is going to be many people - parents or professionals who are going to be able to advise you, because even in Davidson, there are relatively few kids who are like her.
But - imagine those 'much older gifted kids in your gifted homeschoolers group' going to those gymnastics,swimming,ballet,piano and art classes. Would they have made it? Even if they were able to 'behave' would they really thrive in those places? I would try and see if you can get those important extracurricular activities 1-1 with a mentor who can see past her birth certificate, or with the older gifted kids she gets along well with at her group.

Do more of what she likes and less of what isn't geered to meet her needs. Congradulations on getting her into YSP, join their 2E elist and ask the same question there, and request your family consultant to put you in touch with other parents of kids who are similar in LOG, activity level and physical grace, and possible ADHDness. Also ask if you can get a phone consult with Dr. Ruf, who 'gets' active, high LOG kids.

Having a lable isn't as important as having a plan, yes?

Hugs and Happy Dance,
Grinity

Thanks, Grinity, I think Dr. Ruf is a great idea. Also private classes. I feel guilty that somehow she's missing all those fun classes that other little girls take. She has an active group of friends of various ages we see regularly, and thankfully would play with anyone for hours if they can run wildly and play tag, and we take advantage of parents' night out at various places with unstructured play at least once a week, so she can interact with different types/ages of kids. We did try a PNO at a local gym and she spent most of the evening getting in trouble, I was told, because she did not want to wait in line and would not take her hands out of the chalk (I don't want to imagine that scene, LOL). The kid is intense for sure, argumentative, and very logical in how she takes apart other people's arguments, but being singled out every time she takes a structured class has made her (and us) wonder why she's the only one always getting in trouble. I'll try to see if I can find one good mentor who's willing to work with her to see what happens. Though it's not that easy--coaches hear "bright little girl" and imagine a 5 yr old eager to please, quietly awaiting for instructions, and they get a tornado who loves trucks, Percy Jackson, subatomic particles, and mythical monsters.

Wow--your dd sounds like my 3 year old! And your post def. makes me think I need to take a more active approach to getting her evaluated. I think Grinity had great advice re: private lessons. I will be very interested in following your dd's progress! Re: ADHD--as an adult (gifted, but for sure not PG and prob. not HG) who is pretty well convinced that I have ADHD, with a kid who sounds very similar to yours, my un-expert opinion is that "PG with a lot of mental and physical energy" may fit better than ADHD. For whatever that is worth.

The first step of overcoming this sort of issues is recognizing that you have the thought in the first place. I know that soon you will be able to tell yourself 'she is who she is, and if it isn't fun for her, then I dont' have to feel guilty that she isn't doing it!'

Try on the word 'agemates' - her peers are her friends from the gifted homeschool group.
Best Wishes,
Grinity

She sounds wonderful, funnydogsmom! I like little firecrackers!

I think Grinity's right, you know, about worrying less about the label and more about finding what works--she just may not be a "structured class" kind of a kid, at least not right now, which is really OK. Mine aren't, either, particularly. There's nothing wrong with marching to the beat of a different drummer, especially when the drummer is beating in double-quick time!

Maybe you have had better luck than we have, but we have found the leaders of some--not all--structured group activities to be pretty patronizing, and if your children are used to being treated like interesting, intelligent, reasonable human beings, I think that the condescension can be pretty hard to take; maybe anarchy seems to a young child like a possible response to a situation that is uncomfortable? The tone some people take with children makes me squirm, and I can only imagine how it must feel to be on the receiving end.

peace
minnie

PS: We homeschool, too, and were doing a vocabulary lesson one day last week when we came across "condescend"--the older two knew what it meant, but not the youngest--they explained it to him, and he said, "oh, you mean like the yellow-boot lady" (their nickname for the woman who does the nature classes in our park system), at which point they all rolled around on the floor laughing. They're right, of course--maybe your daughter just needs to find some group class teachers who recognize the quality of her mind, and treat her accordingly.

Well said Minnie! My son was 'allergic' to condesention (still is) at a very young age.
I notice that 'chess for kids' clubs are often lead by fellows who take kids seriously and can notice intellectual strength. They also tend to be multiage. Our local one is even open to adult and kids. If you can find one led by a teacher who is more the 'quiet, gentle' sort you have a potential group activity.

I liked Chess for my sensory seeking kid, because it rewarded thinking before acting, and paying attention every second, and flexibility. Yum!

Minnie and Grinity, I agree, dd hates it when people talk down to her or over her head directly to us. We figured out very early that explaining rules, offering choices, and treating her like the individual that she is work much better, but we get blamed for not teaching her to just do what she's told. We, of course, would very much prefer that, but "do it because I say so" does not work. That, to me, is as useful as the advice "put her to bed early" I get when I complain that she's up until 1 am making lists of antiparticles, or singing, jumping, or tumbling (she gets enough sleep, just wakes up at noon). Now that I think about it, it's always the stricter environments we have problems in and with people who take life too seriously, LOL.

I'm just jumping in here because I have a similar son, although he has autism, not ADHD...but a LOT of the behaviors overlap to the outside world.

He also has trouble with very strict instructors. We lucked out in Kinder-gym that they permitted him to roll around on the floor and jump while in line. We also lucked out with swim team last year because the coach could see him getting antsy and gave him a job to do so he didn't have to sit and wait patiently like the other little angels.

Adults who argue or try to out-logic him always lose, and boy do they get mad about it! Which of course makes everything worse. We have had him practice saying, "Yes ma'am, I'm sorry, I won't do it again!" in order to avoid disciplinary actions. That tactic has not worked til this year, but he is getting the hang of it!

I don't think many adults have ever met a 2e (3e? if you count PG as an extra "e") like ours, so our kids stand alone.

Nan