Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment DYS program, do we have a shot?

Hi, everybody.

My DS' (6 years 2 months) school did a testing to see if he qualifies as a gifted. He did, but the psychologist thinks that the current gifted program (pull-outs twice a week for 30 minutes) will not be enough for him. And, since he is is going to be the only student in this program for the entire elementary school, there is not a whole lot of peers on his level.

I looked at the admission requirements for DYS and it seems to me that he is really on the border. Do you think he has a chance? I do not want to go through all this paperwork if he is obviously not going to make it.

WISC-IV:
IQ - 146
VC - 148
PR -141
WM -141
PS - 109 ( the psychologist said that he had trouble with writing and was tired so his score on this should be somewhat higher when he improves his fine motor skills)

Similarities - 19
Vocabulary - 19
Comprehension - 16
Block Design - 13
Pictures Concept - 18
Matrix Reasoning - 19
Digit Span - 17
Letter Seq - 17
Coding - 10
Symbol Search - 13

WIAT - III

Total Reading - 144
Basic Reading - 150
Written Expression - 139
Math - 137
Math Fluency - 125

It seems to me that DS barely clears the bar on WISC, but fails to do so by a point on WIAT, so basically he does not meet the acceptance criteria, right?

I would appreciate any input.

Those 18s and 19s are very impressive. For the WIAT, they are wanting 145 on Total Reading or Total Math, right? So, he missed by 1 point on reading, correct? I'm not privy to their acceptance history, but based on things I've seen Dottie post, it sounds like there are kids with scores similar to your son's who have been accepted.

I would probably apply in your instance if you think the program would be of significant benefit to your son and if, when you look over the application, it looks like your son sounds good on paper (you've got good examples of his characteristics that make him more than just garden level gifted and a good reference/letter of support from someone.)

He just needs to have one of the scores in both IQ (He has IQ & VC) & acheivement (he has that in Basic Reading) ...I would apply

Best wishes..

If I am calculating it correctly, his GAI would be 155, so most definitely that one is not BARELY there.

Since that one is very strong, I would look into complementing the application with some portfolio items. Does he have a particular strength? Look at the portfolio ideas. I would definitely give it a try.

One more thing. What is the breakdown of his other achievement scores? There are some that speak more of higher order thinking skills than others.

Skylesmommy. While it is true that you only need one part of the achievement be >145, basic reading is not one of those.

Thank you everybody for your advice. It was very helpful. I think DS achievement tests are somewhat lower because his kindergarten and now first grade teachers were not crazy about parents teaching him something ahead of the school program. They felt that he would benefit more at moving along with his classmates so that he would be more engaged and learn more social stuff. He does have some problems with social interactions: while full of energy and very outgoing he does not have any friends - his interests are very different from theirs...

So, because of that 6-7 months ago we stopped doing brainquest flashcards (he loved it), explaining some math concepts etc. So whatever he learns he learns at school and by reading books from the library. However, I do not see that this approach is working: DS is really bored at school and socially he is drawn to older kids. I am pretty sure that if I start doing some extra teaching again DS would be able to move ahead very rapidly on his achievements. Unfortunately, it would mean a clean and irreversible break with his peers at class and with what they are learning.

And I am not sure that the folks at school would be too excited: they do not have anyone at his ES in the gifted program and his teachers tried to dissuade us from testing him. They changed their mind and started pushing for testing because they think that based on the test results they can start providing some special services to him to work on his writing - his handwriting is not great in terms of neatness and size, although not terrible.

So, I guess I would apply anyway and if he does not get in based on his achievement scores I would work with him and get him tested again in a half a year or so. I just hope via DYS to get him in touch with other kids with the same interests. We live in a neighborhood chocke full with kids of his age, but it does not really help. My wife's best friend has a kid his age who even goes to the same class and we had high hopes for their bonding together, but that boy really does not like my DS: he told his mom that he does not like him because DS is too smart... And so it goes.

Anyway, thanks for your responses. Very helpful.

Welcome, green valley. I'm disgusted to hear that your school told you not to encourage your son's learning at home, so that he'd fit in by virtue of having been dulled. The tenure system really is dragging this country down; those teachers should be on a bread line somewhere.

My son was borderline DYS and got in with a portfolio included. If you don't get in consider the EXPLORE test in 3rd grade, which is very reasonable, under $100. My son's score in this would have qualified him as a whole year older which I was very surprised about.

You might find some freinds with similiar interests in a Science Camp, Chess Club, Robotics Class, ect. Best of luck.

I rarely post anymore or read this board however...
I am saddened by the lack of understanding regarding giftedness that permeates our US educational system! Please nurture your child's passions and interests. Obviously, he wants to learn and he can't help it if he's light years ahead of his age peers. Do apply to DYS. That is definitely one tremendous benefit: meeting like peers for you child and meeting other parents you can vent to that can actually relate to what you are going through. Don't stop exposing your child to new things, ideas, interests. That is the fastest way to kill any desire for learning or education.

I see people here are a liitle hard on my DS teachers. It is hard for me to be that critical. His school failed several years in a row on standardized testing so they seem to have focused all of their attention and resources on "bringing up the rear". They have a large proportion of special ed kids and a focal point as well. The kids that are ahead of the pack are their least concern, which is somewhat understandable.

They do have a psychologist, who seem to be passionate about the needs of gifted children. That was her who suggested to us this website and Stanford. I doubt though that the school will pay for EPGY or other online courses. Did anybody have positive results with that by any chance?

How about advocating for a grade skip? Our oldest dd, who was already one of the youngest in her grade and whose IQ scores aren't nearly as high as your ds', has done really well with skipping a grade. It was a better fit for her socially and academically.

I'd still seek gifted services, though.