Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Questioning assessment of kids based upon parents

I realize that's an odd subject title, but it's the best I could come up with. I post on some gifted discussion boards other than this one at times. I do realize that I make typos, misspell things, and am generally not perfect in my presentation.

However, I do find myself questioning the veracity of the claims of some posters (again on other boards) who present their kids as HG+ or PG when the parent makes regular errors in writing. Things such as "rediculous" and tons of other misspellings that are not likely due to typos, grammatical errors such as "me and him have...," misuse of homophones ("there" used over and over for "they're"), etc.

Am I the only one? I am feeling judgemental and realizing that I shouldn't be so quick to judge in that I probably live in a glass house myself.

FWIW, these aren't non-native English speakers. I'd be a lot more generous in that instance.

Well, I am PG, went to top schools, graduated with all the honors (departmental and summa cum laude), worked as a large firm attorney for several years, and used to edit the CEO's documents at a Fortune 500.... yet as a SAHM I now have "Mommy brain" and make all sorts of typos!! LOL DH is also HG/PG, holds an executive position, but can't spell or use a comma to save his life!! A lot of it comes from typing very fast in these casual posts/emails. In DH's case, he blames his high school gifted classes that focused on creative writing and missed the standard grammar instruction.

However, I have my share of judgments that I have to work on. For example, it drives me a little nuts when people claim their children "read at XX grade level" without any testing verifications just because they can read a sentence out of a higher level book. As most of us realize, true reading level/comp. is about MUCH more than the ability to read a sentence out loud. I suspect a lot of parents are going to be surprised when they get into school standards testing.

Well, my DH is HG+, the smartest person I've ever met, and dyslexic. He makes a lot of the kinds of mistakes you describe, and not due to carelessness. So no, I wouldn't judge based on that. I also wouldn't judge based on grammar, as I think it is perfectly possible to be very intelligent and yet grow up in/be a part of a culture in which grammar is very different from mainstream/academic grammar. I think to some extent you can judge based on content, but even so it only speaks to how well that person has communicated his or her thoughts on that one particular day (and how well you have read and understood).

I'll also point out that there are plenty of kids who are HG/PG whose parents are not. DH & I both have ND/MG parents, yet we are both on the very upper end of the curve.

Gratefulmom, the reading level thing bugs me too, though I'm sure I was once one of those people (and maybe I still am, since DD has not taken and is not likely to ever take a school reading test). But then, I often find that the things that bother me most about other people are the things I dislike in myself.

I will admit I am one of the people you talk about. It's not something that I'm proud of, but I can't spell for beans. I don't know why! I have an excellent memory, but I can not retain the spelling of a word. It's been a problem all my life.

I can not tell how painful(mentally)it is to try to write something. Knowing you're going to freeze up when you get to a word you're not sure about and the more you think about it, the harder it is.

Does it mean that I'm dumb, maybe. Does it mean I have a problem, yes. A problem that has never been able to correct itself. Could be I have huge gaps in my education. I went to 12 schools out of 12 grades. Different districts, different states, and different countries.

The main problem I see is, no one helped me when I was in school and it should have been identified and rectified.

I don't recall a case where I've seriously thought the parent was just lying, but I have seen cases where, based on the parent not coming across as particularly intelligent, I've wondered whether it's more a case of a child who is significantly brighter than the parent than of a child who is very unusual. It seems unsurprising if a parent in that situation overestimates how unusual their child is, in fact, and the parent may well need some of the same kind of support as parents of PG children, so that doesn't bother me (as lying would, of course).

Board culture and norms for how to judge children - tricky. My DS is one who's never done any standardised testing of reading (AFAIK) so any estimate I've ever made is based on what he's reading for pleasure and clearly understanding. I hope that wouldn't have irked gratefulmom! I do remember being annoyed - well, more bemused than annoyed, really, although with hindsight, it was indicative of the culture of the board which did end up annoying me - with one place where there was a tradition of testing young children's reading using word lists, like the Schonell test. Not only did that have the problems of judging reading based on a simplistic measure, but also, some posters were reusing the same word list very frequently, thereby invalidating the test; it seemed so pointless as to be rather weird. Still, some people don't like the way this place comes over, either.

These boards are not academic and we also have to consider that we live in the world of texting. I also consider that some people use smart phones to type their post and don't take the time to reread it before posting.

But, I have to confess I have sometimes read some posts by different people and wondered. I hate it when I do judge just because they have typos and grammar issues all over the place. In the end I believe in being nonjudgmental. It isn't my place to decide who is or isn't gifted and at what level. But I feel it is our place as a community to give support and to offer up opinions but in a positive way.

Katelyn's Mom, you made such great points! I'd like to think that we all really do believe this too. Sometimes it's fun just to share a silly thought, but everyone here is clearly looking for support.

Btw, my comment about the reading levels wasn't at all about people who are genuinely guessing where their children are. It's really just the seemingly-bragging posts that made me think of this. FWIW, I too didn't realize the difference until DS's testing for K. What he was able to read for pleasure and where his comp. tests scored, while both extremely high, were still multi-grade levels apart. Now that I've gone through that, that's what comes to mind when I see the pre-school brags.

I think grade levels are usually quoted as shorthand for not-a-little-ahead. Otherwise, I'm not sure how much meaning they have. It is possible, however, that a kid who seems to read everything at 4 or 5 really *does* understand it and tests at school as having mastery of higher levels, not just decoding at those levels.

I guess that I have been under the assumption (somewhat fed by the "experts") that PG kids don't have ND parents. I could see a MG/PG mix within a family or a ND/MG mix, but a Little Man Tate situation isn't something I've honestly expected to happen as frequently as I see being presented online.

Again, I am not at all talking about this board. I'm not a particularly great speller myself, but I do generally use simple words and phrases like "moot point" vs. "mute point" or "a lot" vs. "alot" or even "due to" vs. "do too" correctly. We all make typos and, like someone else pointed out, some gifted people are dyslexic so that it is good reminder to me. Do you all think that writing things like "mute point" or "persay" (per se) could be due to dyslexia or just being a bad speller if they happen over and over?

None of these people have struck me as intentionally lying. I am left scratching my head when people state that their kids are PG with no test results to back it up and there are some who I've wondered if they simply can't or don't understand what test scores mean or who have quoted impossible test scores (99.9th on a test that doesn't have that level of sensitivity, for example), but I've never detected malintent. I don't really even find myself irritated at the person so much as doubting what s/he is saying.

That doubt is making me feel like I am being unfair, though, b/c who I am to know given that we are all online. The kid could be brilliant and his/her parent isn't presenting things from the parent's end that make the best case for the child.

I would like to thank you for posting this thread. It gave me time to reflect on past and present problems, instead of pure avoidance. As I look at it face on, maybe I can find a place I'm comfortable with in me.

Thanks for allowing me, to see me.