Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Can someone tell me what I should think?

My DS7's Kindergarten teacher last year insisted he was gifted. I had him tested and he got a 121 on the OLSAT ( the required is 132 in his district to move on to the Cogat).

I decided it wasn't worth the gamble so I wanted to skip testing this year but his 1st grade teacher insisted he's gifted and who cares what the test says.. just get him tested so he can get into the program. So, I did and he raised his score by 12 points on the OLSAT and just made the entry mark but missed on the Cogat-- he scored a 124 (required 132).

I truly feel he's in the 150+IQ range just on sheer performance.. He's not been guided by any means but just can figure out how to read, do higher grade level math, etc.. he's always been full of endless questions and "great guesses" amazing feats of memory since he was 2years old, etc.. I guess all the landmark signs.. But he just can't pass the darned tests!!

Our family has many gifted people and many who have been tested from moderately gifted(me and his dad) to highly gifted-- my brother, my sis-in-law, and my uncle.. and profoundly gifted-- my cousin who was a violin prodigy... and many other cousins whose numbers I don't specifically know but based on personality I would say moderately gifted(a niece who is at Harvard).. SO,,, should I test again next year and hope that he passes the Cogat? Or am I just spinning my wheels? I mean, I guess considering he was able to increase his score on the OLSAT without any prep or practice shows maybe he just needs some maturity?? I don't know.. has anyone had a similar experience?

I know someone with experience will chime in here soon, but I wanted to ask if your son's school will accept outside testing? That might make a difference if you're wanting to test just to see if he qualifies for the school's gifted program. Of course, if you're just looking to get information on how your son learns, then private testing could be well worth it.

Thanks for the responses mnmom23 and CFK. I do wonder if my son would perform differently on an individual test rather than a group test. I would like to at some point do an individual test and privately to see if I can get a more accurate result. For now I've asked his teacher if it was possible to retake the Cogat portion only since it seemed to do the trick with the Olsat (taking a 2nd time). I'm really just anxious to have closure. If he's not going to be in the program I'd rather tuck it away and just let it go.

CFK-- I'm sorry if I was brushing off an IQ of 130.. You are right, people in this range can perform very highly. And looking at people in my family they seem to have less issues with fear of failure, motivation and perfectionism. I guess I have poor perspective since I was considered "average" growing up among my family even though I was in my school's G&T program. I realize now reading more about the topic how I probably had strengths in other areas and not necessarily the same strengths as other people.

I look forward to hearing if someone has had similar issues. I know the teacher last year(Kindergarten)told me another student several years ago didn't pass the test the first time and did the second time and then was so advanced in math(he performed binomial equations in 1st or 2nd grade) that his parents had to move him onto another school to meet his needs. I guess for whatever reason things like that can happen. She also told me in her personal experience that her own gifted son didn't pass the first time but did the 2nd time. My concern is that this is the 2nd time for my DS. Do I still keep plugging away? I guess I just want an answer. It's really bugging me. The other thing is that when my DS came home from taking the Olsat he insisted it was so easy and he only got one wrong on one portion and zero wrong on the next day's portion. His score of 133 really doesn't reflect that. Then when he took the Cogat he said he got one or 2 wrong. And again, his score 124 doesn't seem to reflect that either. I don't know what to think.

I know we didn't have the OLsat or Cogat when I was in school (I'm 40 years old). I remember it was the IOWA skills test. Maybe there was another one that I just don't remember but I do remember the IOWA one which was administered in 2nd or 3rd grade. Am I better off just waiting to test at a later grade? Also, I felt my score and my brother's(149IQ) were both higher than my son's Olsat and Cogat score. I guess that's also where I'm not having the proper perspective on things. Were the scores from long ago over-inflated or on a different scale? My violin prodigy cousin said when she was tested she took several types of tests and scored 157IQ--she's now 32 years old. Also, she mentioned she knew our uncle was tested when he was young (he's now 59 years old) and his result was 148IQ. All these numbers and different skills people have-- it's all very confusing.

I'm just worried my son will be disappointed about "not passing". When I told him his teacher this year wanted him to take the same test from last year he said-- why? I already did great on it last year-- although he did tell me he got "5 wrong" when he came home from the test and I thought,,hmm. that doesn't sound good. Also, when he took the Olsat this time he was grouped with 7 other kids.. only he and his best friend moved onto the Cogat. If his friend gets in the program I worry if my son may be upset. He's strangely competitive. It's difficult to deal with especially when I'm such an "underachiever" type personality. I hope to find closure soon. Thanks!

Maybe you can read the LOG of Dr ruf, it will give you a brief idea about the level of giftness

IQ150 means intelligent over one and half time of his age, for example

7 year old's cognitive ability is about 10-11 years old

if you think your son is gifted, most like you are right

http://www.dirhody.com/discanner/levels.htm

Ahh, well, I guess I'm the big bummer here, because I've never been wild about Ruf's estimates. I find them to be too fuzzy in some places (example: the overlap in IQs in her five groups) and overly restrictive in others (the tooth fairy for example, and reading chapter books; I've heard people here report that their PG kids didn't start reading until five, but were on novels within a year). Honestly, and maybe it's just me, but I can never make head nor tail out of her groups. I think they're a good start...but incomplete.

I suspect that she was using more than IQ to define her groups, but I wish she'd been more explicit, had WAY more study subjects and had done some statistical analysis.

I've always thought it would be beneficial to adjust something like the Denver II Test for kids at either end of the bell curve. Denver II is the test that shows when, say, 25% and 50%, etc, of babies start banging blocks together, or talking or walking, or whatever. It would be extremely useful and interesting (to me anyway) to have something that tells you when 0.1%, 1%...98% and 99.9% of kids do something.

Eep!

Val

There are lot of dicussion about Ruf's LOG here

Most people think: it can not replace of IQ test, but will help you for the over the GT denied or HG+ denied
It will give you brief idea about what level gifted kids doing at certain age.

If you read the whole book, it give very detail information about the behaviours of many GT kids

Some other people like to use grade level

like MG: 1-2 grade ahead
HG 3-4,MG 5,PG 6....etc, just rough guid

Probably it is good to re-test, bu private tester use standard test

My dd did not pass into the gifted programs using the tests they adminster at school either. Every teacher thought she belonged in the Gifted program. The gifted program gave her their paperwork and stuff but would not allow her to attend... I am still fuming about it all. She has all the "signs and symptoms" One thing I do know about the testing was that some of it is multiple choice and she has a hard time with multiple choice. She reads too much into the question. We had her privately tested with better results but the test results were over three standard deviations in the different sub categories. We did not use a tester that knew anything about gifted. I changed her schools by lucky chance she got into this cohort in a charter school. Over half the class tested into the gifted program. Her closest friends were in the 99+ range. It changed her school experience. I think that although I would love to have test results that really confirmed her abilities and what I see.. all the other stuff does so in my mind I consider her gifted and work with her as such and it seems to work. It is hard though because she is not eligible for things that I think she should be eligible for... I don't think that she is the equavelent of 150 IQ but I would say around 133-134. I have wondered though if I had known more, and treated her more with the awareness of gifted would she have shown more ability? She had a horrible time in school until 4th grade. She can not handle a challenge very well now at all. I feel bad, but I really did blame her for her not fitting in at school etc. I did not trust my mommy gut. When we made the school move and I saw how it changed her into this happy bubbly excited to go to school child I had a lot of self forgiving to do. I struggled and still do with that her best friends all get into the programs that she does not. I also struggle with not wanting her to "fail" the test again.

As for the Ruf book I also find that it is really unclear how she is categorizing the children and she really uses the SBLM test rather than the more current IQ tests.... The one thing I can say about the book is that it helped me feel like my kids were normal or not alone and I love reading some of what the kids did and finding my kids in them. Her end of chapter synopsis of what the kids can do in the different levels seems very different than when you read the actually stories about the kids. Reading the posts on this board has really helped.

I also have a brother with an IQ 149 and often wonder if this is a different rating scale than what they use now. More because that means that I may actually have a higher IQ than I have ever thought myself to have due to how it runs in families... However I also know that he was incredibly intelligent and sharp and fast so I do suspect that his IQ was high.

Flower

Funny I just came back from a meeting at school with headmistress where she said he is not gifted. Everybody knows he's gifted. He was tested on Wisc as having a raw intelligence of a 17 to (he's 10). Doesn't show up at school

Is he gifted? Yup. Everyone he meets is blown away by him (aprt from his teachers).I dont care what the tests at school are saying. I am sympathetic tho' for people who desperately need a 'score' to get onto a program they desperately NEED!

What would I do? Assuming the program accepted an independent test - I would cram the kid so he passed the test then try and relax.

The education system, and all that goes with it, as you American's say, sucks!

You are comparing old IQ tests to modern tests. They are both based on very different criteria. The former is a ratio test, the latter is based on normal distribution. Unfortunately it's pretty much impossible to compare them. Today's test give much lower numbers.

150 is truly a high number. It would mean that your child scores in the 99.96 % which is without any doubt a very impressive number. 130 is 97.7%

http://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/IQtable.aspx
(SD 15)

Your best bet would be to take your son for and individual IQ test and see if you can get the school accept outside results.

It took a lot of charts for me to understand that you can't compare old IQ to new IQ numbers! I have my testing results as a child when I was admitted into a special program for early college entrance (goal was high school done by 14). And I have my son's IQ scores which are 30 points lower... or so I thought. Yet I have my parents saying repeatedly "oh you're in so much trouble, he's so much faster and more logical than you were at that age!"

Basically, you just have to realize you're comparing apples and pumpkins. Totally unrelated to eachother but they both make nice bread :-)