Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion If she doesn't get it, what hope is there??

Sorry - this is just a vent that has been a long time in the coming, so please don't feel obliged to read on! Just had to get it out there

I had diner with a friend last night, someone who until I started making noises about my daughter being gifted, I would have considered possibly my closest friend since high school. Now don't get me wrong, I don't usually got around telling people dd is gifted, but because of the relationship we had and the fact that she is a teacher, I had told her.

It all started out well enough - she'd witnessed dd reading and doing basic maths when she was 2 or 3 and obviously it's quite hard to deny that that is unusual. But as dd got bigger, she was less inclined to demonstrate her skills publicly. In addition to this my friend has no children of her own and teaches upper primary school students, so she doesn't have a lot of knowledge about what a 'normal' 4yo does (the only other child of a similar age in our circle is also gifted I suspect). So from time to time she would see things like dd draw a letter backwards or something similar and she would make concerned noises along the lines of "oh... she's having trouble writing her letters properly isn't she... hmm...". Any other 'mistake' is met with a similar kind of response. When I pointed out that most of dd's preschool class couldn't write their own name, I got the sense she didn't believe me. We had dd tested in preparation for choosing a school and I mentioned the results to my friend. It was like they became a catalyst to prove that dd was not gifted and each time we catch up, she drops in another little hint that perhaps dd isn't so unusual at all (dd'd scored in the 99.9 percentile and is a good solid 4 in Ruf's levels, with some cross over in to level 5). My friend is the literacy specialist at her school. She had always been clear that she didn't have any experience of kindergarten kids and the first thing she said last night was that she had witnessed two of the children in the kindergarten class reading at a grade two level. She had evidently come to diner armed with this fresh first hand experience of kindergarten kids (who are a year older than dd) to test dd's reading - having never done so before she asked dd to read to her, which she did, choosing a Dr Suess book (dd read me a page of a Famous Five book the other day, so the Dr Suess book was not indicative of her reading level). DD read fluently, with the exception of getting stuck on 'laughing', which she figured out once she looked at the picture. This was what my friend focussed on "mmm, she reads very well at that level. But... one of the girls in class read 'scientific' to me the other day... your dd struggled with 'laughing'" - as if that somehow proved something (fortunately this was not in front of dd). When I pointed out that dd has no trouble reading 'scientific', she gave me a tight little smile - the one I am sure she reserves for those particularly 'proud' parents!

My friend is very highly regarded as a teacher. She is currently undergoing principal training and is seen as an up and coming leader in her region. She has however, had no gifted education training (other than whatever might be part of her standard teaching qualification). She places - rightly so I suspect - a very high value on her ability (when she has spoken about what she has done with kids who are struggling, I've always come away very impressed). I on the other hand am not a teacher, but I have done A LOT of reading on gifted education - much of it from those who teach gifted education to teachers. In this day and age where teachers seem to have been assigned the role of expert in ALL matters concerning children and parents are seen as simply neurotic and doting, my knowledge and experience of my own child is, I feel, viewed as less valuable and less reliable. This despite my knowledge on this topic coming from respected sources and hers from educational 'folklore'. My friend will admit she has "never come across" a gifted child (hmm...) and has certainly never seen a child accelerated. When I mentioned to my friend that the ed psych who tested dd had suggested she would in all likeliness need to be accelerated twice my friend looked aghast and almost shouted "you can NOT accelerate her". I mentioned what I knew about acceleration and asked her why she thought kids shouldn't be accelerated and she said - and I quote: "because kids who are HELD BACK a year really struggle socially" (my emphasis). Riiiight... So I asked how that related to acceleration and she said "I don't know, I guess I've just always seen them as one and the same thing". When I said during another conversation that two of our local schools would not return my calls as soon as I mentioned my daughter's high ability (I didn't even mention the 'G' word), she said that was to be expected. When I showed her a handout one school gave me - double sided - on why all kids should be held back, she said she'd love to introduce it at her school ("it's what we all think, we just can't say it"). I find all that quite shocking. My friend is a smart woman, but if this is what we're up against in trying to advocate I'm not sure I've got the will - and this is someone I've known since I was 11.

I suspect that this has lead to a change in our relationship that is likely to be permanent. Our mutual lack of trust in each other on this issue has permeated to other areas of our friendship, which I do feel is a real shame.

If you've got this far, thanks for listening and apologies if I have not been entirely rational!

I am very impressed with the thorough, entirely rational, and even quite fair way you've described the situation. It IS so frustrating that this is what so many of us are up against, both within the school system (we've been lucky here) and in society in general. It is, to me, such an incredible shame, and it seems almost impossible to try to convince some people of the reality of gifted kids' needs and what helps them (as demonstrated by reliable research). There will always be someone who puports to know better than you because they have more experience than you. You, yourself, are a smart person and you've carefully thought about what your daughter needs. You just have to have a strong belief in your child and your knowledge of your child and your child's needs. I so wish it wasn't such a battle to convince others sometimes and I hate that it makes it hard to talk at all about our kids. I would think that almost all of us here have a had a similar conversation with someone.

I hope, with time, as your friend sees your daughter develop appropriately with your advocacy, she will be swayed.

I thought you were very rational. I'm sorry this is affecting your friendship and sorry that your friend doesn't see what your DD needs. Follow your gut regarding your DD. I wish I had more advice. <<<hugs>>>

I am truly sorry to hear about your friend's lack of support regarding your gifted DD. People do react strangly sometimes to someone discussing even the possibility of your child being gifted. It's as if they automatically think you're judging them or their children as inferior. What this really states is that the person you're talking to has an inferiority complex and it's not you. However regardless it impacts you because then you're right...the relationship seems to change and you wind up looking arrogant, etc.

I've been there and it's sad. Frankly people wantd to label my daughter with Aspergers or SI...I got her tested 3 times and finally I've been vindicated. My daughter is gifted and that is that. I'm not going to hide it...I'm going to go ahead and talk about it...the good and the bad. Whoever chooses to judge me or my daughter has their own set of problems and it shouldn't be my problem. For me it has never been about "see look how smart my daughter is"...it's always been about knowing something was very unique about my daughter both intellectually and emotionally and frankly I need help managing it regardless of the fact that my husband and I have both been labeled gifted as children.

I hope your friend comes around...you were reaching out to her feeling safe in discussing your ideas and concerns and I'm sorry she didn't step up to the plate as your friend and advocate for you and affirm your feelings.

I wish you the best of luck!

Azuil

At what point do you say enough? Personally, knowing her attitude, I would never have allowed her to assess my DD's reading. My advice (if you really want to continue to be friends with her) is to make your DD's abilities off limits. You don't need her approval and you have taken the extra step of evaluation from experts... there really is no need to try to convince her of anything. You know what your daughter is capable of and if she rolls her eyes at it all ... really her own problem.

This said ... I do have concerns for you and what you are up against if your friend is any indication of the attitude in your local educational area. I'm crossing my fingers that you find a great environment for your daughter. She sounds wonderful.

Big hugs for you ... I really don't know why you put up with your friend. We all have had one of those and I finally accepted that I needed to cut ties, even if she was one of my closest friends before having my daughter. I just don't need to waste my energy on negativity. I need all the energy I have for keeping up with my DD.

Kvmum

As we always say here, having had several run-ins with teachers - "you can't teach them anything". I think, and this is just a personal opinion, that some teachers are just so used to being top dog in their world i.e. the classroom/school, and having to be right (or at least seen to be right) all the time that this affects how they react in a 'normal' environment. Add into the mix the 'expertise trumps common sense' as in the bitter opposition to accerleration and you have an explosive mix of ego, power and closed mindedness.

I always thought education and teaching was a joint venture of discovery, envying those who worked with youngsters on the path to knowledge. Boy has that opinion changed in the light of bitter experience.

if you want a real eye opener you must read "Dumbing Us Down" by John Taylor Gatto.

Oh, and if your "friend" is such a pain then maybe she wasn't your friend in the first place - or maybe it is just time to move on. That happens in life. we have lost several "good friends" who just couldn't accept that our boy was different/more advanced than their kids. Sad but true.

Good luck

P

Thank you all for your responses. And you're all right; I'm not sure that there is a lot of value left in continuing it. I've been doubting the value of this friendship for some time. I think the fact that we were so close for a period is what has made it all the more difficult. Having said that - and Raddy, I think you're spot on - I'm not sure that that closeness was real. Perhaps it's run its course.

Katelyn'smom, I have to say that thankfully I live in a different region than the one she teaches in, but I don't for a minute think that our region is any better (as demonstrated by the schools who dropped all contact once I mentioned dd's abilities). We're in Australia, where there is no federal or state legislation regarding giftedness and we've never been a country that has valued intellect (hence why so many of our best brains leave the country)! I have, very fortunately, found a school that I think will try to accommodate her - at this stage they have said all the right things and have been very accessible. I appreciate there is a big difference between words and actions, so I am mindful of this, but we'll see how we go.

Raddy, I love, love, love what you have said about teaching. I just read it to my husband and we both agreed that that was a very astute assessment of the situation.

Once again, thank you all for your responses. It is wonderful to know that there is support out there. It's just such a shame that because of the circumstances it ends up having to be done online rather than in our communities! I find it so frustrating that it has to be this unspoken thing - and it's something that is so wonderful and exciting. Imagine what these kids could contribute to the world if they were all nurtured.

Gifted could be put in the category with religion and politics. It is a very touchy subject.

I think we just have to understand that many teachers are not trained in gifted education and just don't get it. Our principal, very smart with some gifted teaching background, just does not get it. It almost hard to accept this lack of understanding when it's very clear to a parent.

I think it is sad that many children are not being nutured. I just heard a parent say, "I don't understand why my son is not doing well in school. He just scored very high on national testing. He is still a challenge at home." Well, I didn't comment but my guess is he is not challenged enough at school and some of his behavior is a reflection of this. This mom is very smart and caring.

I am starting to accept the fact that most people educators included do not have a clue about gifted kids. They simply do not get it. If I don't accept this then I will go nuts. Every stupid comment I hear I am trying to chalk it up to being uneducated in the realm of gifted children.