Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion My 5yr. old is angry... and i dont understand her.

on almost a daily bases she gets very angry with her Father and I but she refused to talk about it much and really keeps her emotions in sometimes its easy to get her out of this negative/angry state but sometimes when she actually listens/talks to me about it we end up talking for over an hour while i explain some what complex reasoning as to why things are the way they are...

EXAMPLE:: yesterday she wouldn't get out of the dining room while i was rearranging/cleaning i asked nicely she wouldn't listen so i got a bit more angry sounding then made her go sit on the living room couch (time out) and she got so upset she came back into the dinning room and angrily told me to "get out" over and over i asked her where she expected me to go and she just said "i dont care just get out" (she was very emotional) so i said fine and walked out of the front door and then came back in a minute later and she said "what do you want?? leave me alone"
i felt that i couldn't just let her hide alone and hurt with her unresolved feelings (she tries to hide and be alone to just cry when she is like that) so i tried to pick her up and hold her/comfort her on the couch she kicked and struggled so i let her go and started trying to talk/reason with her...

so i then explained why she has to listen to her parents and what have you she wouldn't listen till i explained age difference i showed her 5 fingers and said this is how old you are then i showed her how old i am and explained how much longer iv been alive and then i explained that her grandma knows even more then me and showed her how old grandma is (she finally started calming and listening) she expressed that she thought that growing up men getting your own way and doing whatever you want so then we had to talk about how no one always gets what they want (especially not adults) and we had to blend in safety and how we as parents only have her best interest at heart and that while she isn't old enough (and lacks the experience) to make certain decisions that there are many things she has grown old enough to do and then she proceeded to ask if she could use an butter knife to cut up her apple (shes never been allowed to do this before) and i told her yes i think you may have grown old enough to do that and i gave her a really dull butter knife and let her do it

and after all of this she was satisfied and understood

however sometimes i just feel frustrated like I'm her mother she should obey and i shouldn't have to give an hour long explanation to my 5yr old

she has expressed before that she gets thoughts in her head and she cant explain them or get them to go away and that that is way she wont talk to us about them....

Does anyone else have this problem??

It sounds as though she's asking to be involved and trusted more. I was struck by this:
because although I've stopped short of the full Continuum Concept approach, my DS6 has been using a sharp kitchen knife to cut up fruit since he was 3 and these days I don't even feel the need to supervise him while he does it. Could you be being over-protective? Could your DD have helped you arrange and clean, rather than being sent out?

ETA: I'm sorry if this sounds critical; I don't mean it that way and I know how scary it is to let young children do things that seem dangerous! But fwiw, it's actually much easier to be safe with a sharp knife than a blunt one, because you don't have to press so hard.

I agree. Personally, I think kids have just as much right to be treated with dignity and to have their opinions and decisions treated with respect as adults. Yes, of course you know more than she does, about many things. But imagine how you would feel if someone who knew more than you tried to tell you that you had to blindly obey them--you would be totally irked. Of course I'm not saying that you should not make any decisions for your child. But it's perfectly natural for your child to be frustrated and upset when you boss her around and don't explain your reasons.

I think it is also perfectly natural for her to be angry at you for telling her to get out of the room, without telling her why. Of course she came back in and told you to get out! She's learning her behavior from you.

I would also respect her decision to be alone to cry and work through her feelings if that's what she wants. Some kids want to be held, or need to be held, but many want privacy to calm down. You can always talk about it after she is calm.

I've never had your problem, but I've had your daughter's.

First, let me say that you are ABSOLUTELY on the right path with showing willingness to explain yourself and discuss your decisions and how they make your daughter (and you) feel. I'm not a parent, but as a teacher and a person I find myself on the verge of crying and/or screaming in frustration every time I hear someone suggest that any adult has the right to expect a child to obey them without question. To expect such a thing is both demeaning (since it suggests children are not thinking, feeling people in their own right) and incredibly demanding (since such sacrifice of one's own free will runs counter to all instinct).

It's obvious and right that a child who feels they're being treated that way will rebel. In the average parent-child relationship, if this happens at all, it's during the teenage years, but with gifted kids, it can strike at any time, because their sense of self, their moral decision-making, and their understanding of relationships develop at unpredictable times and rates. It started with me around age nine, and I fought a continuous battle with my mother for the next seven years because she was unshakable in her belief that "a parent shouldn't have to explain herself". It sounds like the problem might be even worse for your DD than it was for me, because as you've related, her mind is running ahead of her language and she's got thoughts she can't express. At least I could form my arguments and get them out of my mouth. But maybe if you keep talking to her the way you did in this incident, you'll help her develop her ability to talk about concepts like this.

My rule for dealing with my kindergarteners is this: whatever the issue is, talk to them about it, and assume they will be able to understand unless they prove otherwise (in which case, it's "one of those things you have to do for now, but we can talk about it again"). Be prepared for bargaining and attempts to out-logic you, and be willing to step down if the logic turns out to be better than yours.

I also second no5no5's advice to let her be alone if she wants to be. And as for the knife, ColinsMum is right - for something like an apple, I would let her use a sharp knife because it's easier. Alternatively you could let her use the dull knife for cutting softer things (butter, cheese, muffins) and "graduate" her to sharper knives and tougher foods when she proves she can control the dull knife.

I think there is a difference between giving a child the courtesy of explaining WHY they are being requested to do something and spending an hour justify yourself after the fact (but sometimes you will have to do this). I don't think giving a child a reason EVERY time you tell them to do something makes you weak. I think it shows respect for them and makes them a partner in achieving goals. It also makes them more likely to do what you want when you are not around and helps them develop good judgment. It also helps them recognize the natural consequences (realized or not ) of NOT doing as you tell them.


Ideally, you would let her help you or explain where she needs to be so as not to be in your way. If you really need her in another room because you have guests coming in 20 minutes or something, then tell her that.

It looks like you have gotten a lot of sound advice. I just wanted to offer a suggestion of what I do with the why questions. My daughter loves to ask why and demand a reasonable explanation. It didn't take me long to get into the habit of answering the why before she asked the question and now it is part of my habits. IE. If I was in the dining room and my DD came in and I was concerned for her safety I would ask that she leave the room but making sure I give her the reason. "DD please don't come in here right now. Mommy is moving the furniture and it could fall and hurt you. Just for now, go into the living room and when I'm done moving this I will let you know." Now this isn't to say that she doesn't get stubborn or choose to ignore the information but I repeat myself one more time if that is the case and if she stays on the path of Why my next move is to inform her that I took the time to explain it all and she needs to take the time to listen. I ask her to tell the answer and when she does ... she accepts it. Something magical happens as she explains it back to me ... acceptance.

Also ... my DD was never the typical toddler with tantrums but when she started having them I came to realize she had them for a reason. We were not paying attention to her demands for more independence. When we rectified this the tantrums stopped immediately. Now that she is 3 1/2 she doesn't have tantrums but more arguments with us. She has great logic too but I have come to discover that I can sit down with her and have great conversations and she will definitely point out things she feels is unfair and why. If she is valid I will 100% agree with her and we make agreements to change it. I totally agree that children should have a say and parents should listen but I also think it can quickly get out of hand if the parents take it to the level of just giving in to the child. I always tell my child that I am open to discussion but she has to be able to argue her point and you would think a 3 1/2 year old wouldn't understand that but she does and has since she was 2. The big difference now is the complexity of her argument.

thank you all for your responses i do feel a bit attacked but i also realize that you are all well meaning...

as far as trying to tell her why? it gets a bit confusing where she is concerned because often when you explain why to her she does argue and say she doesn't want to do it that way then either i end up having to exert some sort of authority and say well this is the way we are doing it or i end up saying okay well try it your way and when her way doesn't work then she gets even more upset she is a perfectionist and blames herself for the failure and it certainly doesn't help matters that she then sees that i was right leaving her with a bruised ego...

Sometimes as i explained earlier (and thankfully this is becoming more common) i can get her to talk about it but with her explanations are never easy because without a complete understanding of every part of a situation she refuses to except what im telling her and no i dont force her to talk for an hour (more like she insists i explain in full)

as far as leaving her alone you would have to understand the extent of how upset she gets and the way she isolates herself i have found that leaving her to "deal with it on her own" just causes her distance her self and to not trust me to be able to help her she just turned 5yrs. old feb. 9th and she is already very strongly challenging authority she has already come to realize that parents dont know everything and that she does not have to do what we say and we cant always make her (something i didn't realize till i was a teen) she is aware that i can give her time out till the cows come home but i cant force her to do what i want her to she wants to know why "mommy always gets what she wants" (meaning i tell her "clean up" and then get what i want or i tell her "go to bed" and then get my way)

last thing is it has been one of the hardest most heart breaking things to have a 4-5yr old who is experiencing such complex feelings because i never expected this i just wish i could hold her comfort her and take away all her pain and worries
after all shes only 5yrs old i should be able to kiss the boo boos and make them all better still at this age right?

i am also aware that in order for a child to feel safe they need their parents to be in control and i am trying to gain the control back by listening/talking with her but still insisting in most instances that she do what she is told its just a struggle even getting her to understand why she must listen to her parents

talking to her in an adult fashion and trying my best to understand her side and leading her to explain her side seems to be helping so i think i will work on that

also im sorry but i dont agree with giving sharp knives to children but i do allow her to have many other chances to help out and she even was helping clean in the dining room till i needed her to move out of the room so i could move things around a bit i did tell her why but she didn't think my reason justified her having to leave the room so she sat in the dinning room chair and refused to move
also i know i shouldn't have walked outside but i was very upset at her behavior and the lack of control i had over the situation and needed to calm down and breath for a minute everything is a battle with her and while she thinks she is ssssooooo big she is my 5yr old baby and having a daily battle of wills with her is very hard on me...

anyways id like to thank you all again.. and now that you have heard more of an explanation if you have any more ideas or insight i would appreciate any help you have...

zhian -

i wanted to thank you for your response it was very helpfull in fact it made me cry a little because your post described exactly what i have suspected is going on with my daughter for a while now and as a mother i love her with all my heart and only want what is best for her so watching her struggle inside with her complex feeling and emotions and having daily battles with the little girl i love soooo much is really hard

i cry for my daughter because all that she is facing at only 5yrs old and i as her mother feel so so helpless i just wish i could take it all off her little tiny shoulders one minute shes a healthy happy 5yr. old and the next minute you realise she has all these complex things going on in her head that she isnt even sure how to tell you about or if she can tell you about them she says daily "i just cant/dont want to talk about it" and "just leave me alone" it really is like having a teenager and as a parent who was expecting a "normal" 5yr. old I have been given a 5yr old teenager and am just learning how to care for her...

You're very welcome. Parenting a gifted child can be a very confusing enterprise - almost as confusing as being one - so it's nice being able to help someone make a little more sense of it all (I'm making counselling and social/emotional characteristics of gifted kids a big part of my masters program for that reason).

The good news, you have to realize, is that no matter how difficult it is for both of you that your DD right now has to deal with having a teenager's sense of rights and relationships and a much younger child's language and body, these things will even out as she gets older and as long as you approach her with a minimum of preconceptions and a maximum of adaptability, she's going to grow into a very thoughtful and respectful person. Gifted children often have a more developed awareness of themselves and others, greater empathy and sensitivity, and a stronger devotion to honesty, justice, and moral behavior than average kids, and it sounds like your DD is headed that way.

yes, I have similar experiences, but I would never ever ever leave the room after she commanded it because that would teach her that she is the one in control. I do not want to dominate my child, but boy oh boy she sure is not going to dominate me (and yes she tries every single bossy day of her life!).

My DD likes explanations too, but I try to keep them short otherwise a little tantrum / outburst would be reinforced by all that talking time and attention so her lesson would be: if I act defiant when my mom asks for space, I actually win because she will give me one on one talk time. I think I will try that again (not that she thinks that consciously about it).

I need time alone because I am a stay at home mom with them all day every day and I do tell them to back off because I need private time to use the bathroom or just catch my breath. I always ask nicely at first, but if it doesn't work, I will get very firm about it. I am not their ever available slave. I have had to train them to be able to do that over a long period and it doesn't always work, but did find that as I became more authoritarian, the more she tried to mimic that behavior. It is hard when your child is very strong willed. I tend to talk about my needing time alone, or privacy, or space and it is a good lesson for them to see a mother having boundaries so they can have their own when then need them.

I often need to explain to her why I need her to do something, and not just expect her to "obey" but I try to keep it brief and there are times I expect her to just give me space if I need it, so if she asks someone to stay away, not hug or kiss her, etc. we make sure to respect her need for boundaries.

Here is an example about her needing explanation: we tried many ways to get her to give up a pacifier which she kept until much older than expected, and nothing worked until I realized she was starting to develop an overbite. I showed her her mouth and explained why we needed to give it up (the overbite) and she threw it away that day and never touched it again whereas talk of "paci fairies" etc. was useless. She had to know for herself why to do or not do something.

Two useful books are The Kazdin Method and anything related to NHA.