Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment 2 deviations away from the norm

I can see his point, in particular because the idea is subtle. "The slow pace of learning in kids with IQs who are below the first percentile is comparable to the fast pace learning in kids who are above the 99th percentile."

A problem is that slow cognition in some ways is much more obvious than fast cognition. A teacher of average or above average intelligence (say, an IQ of 115) can gauge how slowly a student with an IQ of say, 60 (well below the 1st percentile) is learning. Because this person moves slowly and requires extra help, it's easy to for the teacher to compare to her own experiences. She can also draw on what she observes with average and above average learners. These factors help her make a comparison between the very slow learner and the average learners.

The same isn't true of an extremely fast learner (say, an IQ of 140, which is well above the 99th percentile). A teacher with an IQ of 115 can't compare with her own experience, and it's unlikely that she'll have dealt with enough kids with very high IQs to gain knowledge from them. Sure, she can see that the child learns faster, but without an understanding of how quickly people with IQs of 140 learn, and HOW they learn, she lacks critical insight.

The slower learners also benefit from large group of specialists who understand the needs of slow learners. It's too bad that the same specialty just doesn't exist for the gifted learners.

Obviously, courses on the needs and abilities of gifted students would help a lot here. But I wonder how much even these courses, as currently designed, really help. My concern (without knowing a lot about them) is that they focus on lower percentiles (such as the 90th or 95th), and so don't really reflect giftedness or high giftedness.


Another little point: getting an accurate IQ score for kids with very low IQs (< 2 or 3SD) is just as problematic as it is for kids with very high IQs, and IQs can vary by 10 and 20 points from test to test.

Val

I agree... the issues really are hugely different. On the other end of the bell curve, the kids really need every bit of assistance to even be able to lead an independent adult life. Their parents have to consider how they're going to care for a child who may never be able to hold down a paying job, may need custodial care throughout his life, and will likely outlive them. There are financial and legal issues that loom large in their plans, and a unique vulnerability that complicates everything.

I'm not saying that parenting an HG+ kid isn't difficult - it certainly has challenges that shouldn't be minimized - but really, there's no point on the top end of the bell curve where I have to start worrying that DS won't be able to live independently and take care of himself as an adult.

I really think the argument has to be based on the specific needs of a specific child. As much as I love data and statistics, I think in this case it's not the best approach.

Just wanted to quote this.

Because really, it is hard to explain giftedness other than via obvious descriptions, but another gifted person would "get it" much more easily just from their own life experience.

One of my usual quickie comments,but I do disagree with the assumption that people so far outside the putative norm, whether above or below CAN function in society. I know several people who may be able to (literally) receive Nobel prizes but have serious social and functional deficits. While these are not quite comparable to the devastating effects of being terribly below average intellectually, they are nonetheless real.

I volunteer at a school, and this year, I have regular exposure to 3 children who have IQ's of approximately 70. I also work with a number of kids with LD, most of whom are of average intelligence (although 2 are gifted), and with a variety of ND kids, with a range of IQs (probably a few are also gifted). I also happen to live with one child who has tested gifted and a couple more who may or may not be. The 3 with the lowest IQ's coupld possibly be in another type of program, but parents can always opt to keep their children in the regular school.

The gifted children are a mixed blessing in class. They may call out answers, zone out, or not show much in the way of patience. However, you can count on them for a meaningful answer when nobody else can come up with one and to save you from losing your mind (because at least someone gets what you're trying to explain). On the other hand, the children with the very low IQ'a don't learn things because they don't remember or never understood the part that comes before. I once heard a speaker who said you can only learn around the edges of what you already know. For example, you can't learn addition if you don't have a concept of what numbers are. Because those lower kids have such smaller edges, they can't a lot of the learn grade-level material. The teachers are pretty much teaching grade-level material, even if there are gifted or very low children in the class.

I think gifted kids are a different challenge. Everybody has different strenths and weaknesses, and just being gifted doesn't guarantee you are emotionally stable, socially adept, physically able, and not learning disabled. A class of only gifted children can be pretty diverse.

What happens / what does it mean for kids that are 3 standard deviations over (to the right)?

That's a good way to put it. Thanks!
So for kids 3SDs to the right, they seldom get an opportunity in school to reach the edges of what they already know.

That is an excellent way to put it.

I have not meant to offend or be unsensitive to needs on the low side of the curve. I'm just still trying to get my husband to understand my children's needs.

My DH, "got it" the day we had a 5 & 6 yo old over for a play date with our DD, who was barely 5 at the time.

We assumed Battleship would be a fun easy game for Kindergarteners because our DD easily learned it at 4.
But after 30min of trying to teach DDs friends the concept, my husband gave up.
Later on he admitted that "maybe she is a little different after all."