Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional middle school dilemma: super G&T or Aspie program?

Thanks for the book Melissa. I am going to get a copy.

Good Luck bk1! Meeting with both Principals seems like an excellent idea.

I was quite interested to read from the 2E list and see the different slant. One difference is that I got the feeling that many on the 2E list were years ahead of their agemates academically, and were in a position of having to 'slow down' a bit.

I think once kids get into the High School years the problem of 'these grades count on college transcripts' becomes a looming issue for any kid who is accelerated and has enough 'organizational difficulties' so that they could really use the extra years to mature up a bit. That's what's on top at my house anyway. For a while in the Middle School years,it looked like the asynchrounous development was 'going away' but now it's back in full force.

Just guessing, but there it is.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

I, too noticed the 2E board was more leaning towards Cozy Middle. This was giving me pause. These folks have 2E kids, they've been through it, and they are telling me to pick Cozy.

I realized that most of the kids sounded much further advanced in academics, whether young and accelerated in ps or hs. Even a child without AS and with no EF delays might feel a little overwhelmed by the organizational and social demands of being up 2+, 3+,4+ grades in school. I am sure it is even more so for the 2E kids who are accelerated.

Going to G&T Middle won't zoom DS many years ahead. HE might wind up 2 years ahead in math, and have one extra high school science or computer class under his belt by the time he arrives at high school. He would likely have more in-depth, substantive language arts classes, but he will still wind up in, at most, sophomore language arts when he gets to high school as a freshman. Being just one year ahead, he would face the difficulties of a 2Ekid, but not a 2E kid who's in class with kids several years his senior.

Also, with those comments, I think people were saying that they thought it would be easier to get academic accommodations for giftedness than accommodations for AS or writing. From my experience of never achieving any sort of giftedness accommodations for my son in his PS for the last seven years, but a few for the handwriting, I think it is easier to get an accommodation for anything that can go on an IEP.

But, I will put this to the test tomorrow, when I call the principals at both schools and ask what they can do!

I am a 2E mom and I definitely would be more comfortable taking my son to G&T Middle. The reasons that I would do so:

1. I don't want to cater to my son's weaknesses. I want them supported and helped, but I don't want them to define him. I want his successes to shine, and that would be easier for him academically.

2. I honestly believe that there are parts of disorders like Aspegers that become worse when a child isn't challenged and interested in what he is currently doing. My son disengages when he isn't interested. Throughout the school day, you can definitely see these issues. I believe that his issues would become better, after the initial scheduling accomodations, when faced with academic peers and academic challenge.

3. I agree that it is much harder to get gifted accomodations. Once again, schools are more comfortable catering to weaknesses than they are propping up the strengths of those ahead of the curve.

So, that's my take.:)

Having a 2e son in a G&T middle school program, I can tell you two things from my experience (keep in mind he's not AS; he has problems with working memory, auditory processing, executive function and dysgraphia):

1) The G&T teachers are VERY passionate about their work and their students and are far more willing to make accommodations than his regular public school teachers have ever been.

2) It is difficult for a 2e child with EF or writing difficulties to be organized and motivated enough to keep up with accelerated programs, so the parents have to do a LOT to help keep on top of things.

Having said that, I like the G&T program so much (because their teaching style is so perfect for DS12's learning style) that I have fought to keep him in that program and have worked tirelessly to be sure his IEP has the best accommodations possible to help meet his needs...and it's worth it.

I'm inclined to agree with the others here, that it's best to focus on your son's strengths whenever possible. If your son falls in love with the curriculum and content, he's likely to work hard to keep his own weaknesses from getting in his way...especially since he HAS experienced the PS system and knows what the differences are.

As for your fears that your son may have appeared smarter because of his testing methods...I think the way he arrived at the appropriate multiple choice answers is quite brilliant and I suspect it wouldn't matter in the end how he figured them out, because he's one smart cookie either way.
I think he'd enjoy the G&T program if he craves learning in the way you've described.

Good luck!

My latest research:

Thanks to postings on local boards, I've now managed to hear back from one parent at Cozy Middle with Aspie child, one teacher at Cozy, and three parents at G&T Middle, who all asked their kids about school.

They all love their schools!

One parent of a G&T Middle student said her child had already covered topics in 6th grade science that the parent didn't get until high school. DOK! She raved about the science "talent" teacher.

One child said there was incessant teasing at G&T Middle, the other two said there was practically none,and that teachers did not tolerate bullying.

The parent of a child at Cozy said it had been a great experience for her child and he really thrived. Her child had been appropriately challenged in the accelerated math offered (concludes with algebra in 8th). Challenge for a HG child was hit or miss in some classes. Her dc had day in, day out, lessons on social skills issues that helped her child tremendously. The school's specific pull-out on writing for the AS kids had been especially helpful and made a big difference. The teachers were in general very dedicated.

I also spoke to the placement social worker for Cozy, who said there would be a lot of kids just as smart as my child there. I tend not to believe those sorts of statements when made about any DYS kid, and that puts up warning flags for me. HOWEVER, she does not actually run the program or teach or counsel there.

The director of the Aspie program at Cozy returned my call, but it went to my voicemail and didn't pop up in messages until around 5:30. Curses on my horrible cell phone coverage!

I also spoke to the counselor at G&T Middle who said..... "the key thing is to be flexible and do what the kids need." I kid you not. She said she teaches a social skills pull out for two kids at the school. An OT visits the school once or twice weekly, with schedule varing by needs of kids that year.
Most lunch periods, kids who want a quieter lunch will come eat with her in her office. They also can receive a "permanent library pass" so that they can go to the library for lunch or before school. At lunch, kids can go to the room of the cluster teacher who has signed up to do lunch-time tutoring. Kids who need help with handwriting as stated in IEP get to use assistive technology and the school-board approved technology is the alphasmart keyboard. Many teachers post assignments on-line. Some don't, but there would be work-arounds. (This is where she talked about flexibility.) I was least satisfied with her answers on writing skills. Those would be worked on in-class, andin the twice-weekly intervention that each kid gets, where kids are pulled out and placed in a class with kids who scored similarly on reading or math exams, and given remediation or supplementation as needed. Few specifics and no guarantees, other than, they try to give the child what's needed. Cluster teachers conference at least once a week to discuss the kids in their cluster and what's needed. Both parents and kids may come to the meeting to discuss what they need and parents will come and make requests.

Hi Phroggy:

I have had the same thought about needing to keep DS more interested in class and that boredom may exacerbate the AS because he tends to tune out.

I feel the AS symptoms have gotten more pronounced over the years, and perhaps this is a small part of that.

Thanks so much everybody for your advice and help!

bk1

I didn't see the question on 2e, but here's my take as a mom of a 2e kid who went to a gifted middle program:

Our county has both middle school autism programs and gifted magnets. Both have their positives and negatives. That having been said, for my own daughter, it was more helpful to send her to the gifted magnet with a few other probably-Aspies than to be the only gifted kid in an autism program. Socially, she fit right in with the gifted kids, albeit the slightly odder kids rather than the Super Achieving Uber-Academic King of the School ones. This may have as much to do with her general personality as her exceptionality, since she's kind of a blue-haired anime fan anyway. Academically, her big challenge was executive functioning/organization, and that was a huge one. If the school has a set-up whereby grades can be followed online, it helps.

Ultimately, in the spirit of full disclosure, she's back homeschooling this year. Not because of the demands of the program, but because the gifted magnet is a program within a larger, very low-functioning school, and she ended up having daily panic attacks after about her fourth week of daily fights and student arrests. :o(

I felt like I had monopolized the 2E board for days with my handwringing. Perhaps good to know that my volume of posts was a mere blip!

Thanks for this input.

I am concerned about the number of peers DS would have in Cozy. I also think that its AS program might really, really help DS.

I have decided that either will be acceptable and I should not drive myself crazy trying to pick The Best.

I will keep everyone posted and give you our BTDT once we've BTDT!

bk1

Words to live by for most things, I'm finding!