Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment SB-V and "new" WIAT for 10yo

My kid, newly 10, is a DYS and in educational flux. Homeschooled until this year, then in private school for three months, private school failed to keep 99% of their promises to accommodate his academic needs, so we just pulled him out to homeschool again--temporarily. We live in a state with legally mandated gifted protection (GIEPs), and our son is in the eval period for our local district. Our intention is to get a workable GIEP and then enroll him in public school. I was told that they will be giving him the SB-V and the newest WISC and probably other tests as part of the eval period.

Testing background: he took the WISC and WIAT two years ago at age 7-turning-8. Ceiling'd out some of the subtests on the WISC and got 160s in math and reading for the WIAT. Some folks here "know" me and know my kid's raw scores (waving to Dottie) so you know his background and what we're dealing with. He's a chronological 4th grader who can do work on the 8th-10th grade level in most subjects and has a decent track level of this. However, due to the failure of the private school to provide the education they promised, he's spent the last three months spinning his wheels, mentally.

So...I need a quick and dirty summary of the SB-V, especially for older kids. Is there anything about this test that is surprising? Any concerns we should voice to the tester, who is a school psychologist based at the elementary school? Our son walked into the WISC and neither one of us really knew what it would be like, and he did great. But I know that age 10 is not the ideal age for IQ testing, and the SB-V is a different animal, andandand. The school psych DOES have a copy of our son's full report from the late 2007 WISC/WIAT testing.

Also, I didn't know that the WIAT was updated since late 2007. Any major changes in this test with the new iteration?

Thanks in advance for any help you can provide. I want to at least give our son an idea of what is coming (not coaching or whatever, but just "this is like what you did before" or "this will be very different, like ____________" etc.).

Great question - which I knew some answers, but can at least 'bump' you up!

I would ask the school psychologist to look at his old scores and to start him as high up as possible. Maybe it isn't possible to choose the starting point, but my son's school did his WISC IV, and it seemed to take much much longer than expected because they started him below grade level on the subtests - they were used to testing kids with learning disabilities, and had no idea of how high he was going to go, even though a report was avialible to them from his private testing from a few years ago.

In other words, if they have to start him a grade level, so be it, but try to see if the psychologist will agree not to start below grade level...toward that end, maybe I would send in a few samples of his work (in his own handwriting if possible) that demonstrates that 8th to 10th grade level for the school psychologist to review before the testing starts.

Best Wishes,
Grinity

I second what Grinity said. They started my son below grade level and by the time the questions were at a higher level he was just about "done" answering questions.

I feel like there is only so much new information to be gained from these tests, as he is already fairly well-situated in the thin "tail" of the bell curve.

The psych did review his 2yo WISC and WIAT results prior to approving the state PDE form for testing approval. He seemed excited to get to test a kid with these prior scores. I got the impression that he does a lot of testing to appease hothousing parents. [We are on the other end of the spectrum - it would be so much easier to put our kid in school with no major accommodations.]

The SBV was today. Our kid said it was fine, nothing major to report. The WIAT is Monday. Don't know what else can change from the 160s - although he only did math and reading last time, so I am very curious about the writing bit.

The psych said he'd have results by the end of the week next week.

czechdrum,

Keep us posted.

I would be very interested to hear about your DS's experience with the WIAT-III, and how it compares to the old version of the WIAT?

NJMom (do I know you from DYS?) -

Our son took the WIAT today. He didn't say it was difficult, but as you know, the test is set up to have incredibly difficult questions towards the end of each section so that kids stop the test when they get a series of wrong answers - so he did say that there were some questions he could not answer. I think he said that he stopped in the math section at a pre-calculus question, but he did a bunch of geometry and algebra questions. For reading, he said it was basically the same as the test he took several years ago, just with different words to spell, different made-up words to read aloud, etc. For the writing part, he said that he had to do some "easy" writing stuff, like punctuation and editing, and also had to write a short essay. Not sure what else.

The psych said he'd try to call me tomorrow afternoon with just a verbal rundown (not the full written report) - very nice of him!

I'll keep you posted.

Thanks for the update, czechdrum.

I'm curious about the WIAT because my DD tested on the WIAT-II, and I'll have to decide whether to use it again when we test DS. I wasn't too thrilled with the WIAT-II, but perhaps some of my issues have been addressed in the new version. In particular, I didn't like the predetermined start and stop points for the reading comp and writing sections. Kind of defeats the purpose of an achievement test, IMO.

And, yes, you probably do know me from DYS. I use "NJMom" for the DYS parent seminars, although I go by my real name on the e-lists.

Hope it all works out.

I asked him about some of the math problems he wasn't able to solve, and he said something about an equation involving a fraction where the denominator was something like x minus the infinity symbol and the numerator was a super-complicated thing with tons of square roots, Greek letters, and so on. He knew right away that he wouldn't be able to solve it. He said the tester said that it was calculus, but without seeing the problem myself I would have no idea (and neither would my son - he's done Alg I and part of Alg II, but no high school Geometry, Trig, or any Calc). He did say that there was a fair number of basic geometry problems, but he remembered those from the geometry stuff he learned in Alg I and before (simple formulas, not proofs as far as he told me).

I don't know anything about the predetermined start/stop points for reading comp and writing - I think I'd almost have to have been in the room to get a feel for that kind of thing. I know that he said the easiest writing prompts were "VERY VERY easy" and the hardest ones were also "VERY easy." He gave me examples but I don't think I am supposed to tell others about them since this is a static test. Let's hope that his score reflects that blase, confident attitude. He said nothing about reading comp - I'll have to ask him tomorrow. He said the reading/phonics and spelling portions were basically the same as the earlier version of the test that he took two years ago, just with some different words.

His favorite part of the test was, predictably, the fake word list that had to be read aloud.

Dottie - will DEF ask for a full report. Did you get one? The guy said he'd call me tomorrow but I didn't know he would be giving me a copy of the report. Do I need to ask specially for that? I have no idea what the district is/isn't obligated to provide to parents.

Dottie,

Lots of good stuff happening here this week.

I met with the psych, the outgoing director of curr + instruction, and the elem school principal today. They all had their "oh #$%&" faces on when the psych showed them our kid's test results, and then showed them pages of our kid's handwritten math and spelling stuff. And then showed them samples that I had sent in myself. So, it was "oh %@#!" but in a good way. They all agreed that this was going to be a way-outside-the-box situation.

I did get a superduperquick look (less than a minute for a few pages, just to see how my kid spelled something or solved an equation) at one or two pages of the WIAT, but not enough to really say much. Our kid's scores were still in the end of the tail of the bell curve - no changes. The S-B V scores reflected the same levels that he had from the WISC two years ago.

The upshot is that they want to do at least one more test, an out of level high school reading/spelling/writing test, to help bolster their argument that he should matriculate in early Feb as a 9th grader for english, history, math, science and spanish. He would stay with 5th grade (one full grade acceleration from his 4th grade same aged peers) for lunch, recess, art and music. This is an informal proposal but they feel strongly about making it happen,so they plan to do the legwork before the GIEP meeting in a few weeks. They said, "expect a cast of thousands at that meeting." This plan would have him on track to graduate high school at 14.

I'm somewhere between completely freaked out and oddly calm. I know it's probably right where he needs to be, and he probably will be really happy with that placement if he can be learning new things every day, but at the same time I have all sorts of questions and fears and "gifted issues" (lol!) when I think about the reality of it!

The psych said he would include lots of info in the gifted written report and that if I wanted the raw scores he would give them to me. Not sure if I think I need them, though. One more WIAT math tidbit is that our kid did do a funtion problem - I was surprised since he hadn't done those since last spring and had not reviewed them at all this fall. But the psych said he got it right and it wasn't an easy-peasy function problem either. Yikes.