Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy DS punched at school!

My DS7 (who has been accelerated 2 years) was quite agitated last night and after lots of small talk about his day I finally got to the bottom of things...

They were waiting for a lesson when one of the boys (all boys mentioned here other than my DS are 9 or 10) started pinching and picking on one of the other boys because of something he had done (my DS does not know what this was). My DS likes the boy who was being picked on and stood between them to try to stop the fighting. The boy doing the pinching then put both hands around my DS's neck tightly and my DS tried to push him away, the boy then punched my DS full in the stomach. DS said that at this point he was doubled over in pain and he then withdrew and stood near the girls, at which point the teacher arrived! The teacher does not know what happened.

I am absolutely furious with what has happened, but how do I go about dealing with it - is this normal "boy behaviour" for the older age group? I don't like the idea of children who are so much bigger hurting my DS but I do understand that teachers can't be present all the time and I also don't want the school to blame the acceleration for the problem as my DS is generally so much happier at school(not that they would blame the acceleration but I don't want to cause problems). Has anyone else dealt with a similar situation?

Any thoughts greatly appreciated...

It may be normal behavior, but I'm sure it's against the school rules! How does your DS feel about reporting the incident? Is he afraid of the bully now?

I would approach this with the school as a bullying issue. The bully was also picking on another kid (who presumably wasn't accelerated...) I don't think they can argue that your DS is too young/small/socially immature/whatever and therefore somehow deserved or provoked the bullying.

Focus on the bully's behavior. What the bully did was against the rules.

I'd talk to the teacher. The picking at each other, like the older boys were doing, is common among that age group. Most of them pick & tease and are best of buds at the next recess. That's not to say it's OK, but a lot of it is addressed by reminding the boys to quit it. Advise your son to step back and observe & if he's concerned about someone's safety then he needs to go get an adult.
The punch to the gut was too much though. That's not 'fair' among the unwritten code of conduct among boys picking on each other. Hitting a smaller boy is bullying, and I'd ask for it to be addressed by the teacher and/or the principal.

no one is allowed to punch your child. This is not normal, not acceptable, not allowed, not tolerated.

period.

Yes. I would take the bullying route. 9 and 10 YOs should know better.

And kudos to your son for trying to protect a friend! To me, that seems like true social maturity.

We dealt with some verbal girl style bullying last year. I'll be intertested to hear how your school reacts when the bullying involves hitting.

Hi everyone - thanks for the support. At least I know that my reaction is normal and I am not being over-protective! I will be speaking to them on Monday...

Cathy A - DS is now very wary of this boy, I have told him that I will speak to the teacher about it for him.

OHGrandma, I will be telling DS to go and call a teacher next time - good idea!

Chrys - we have also had a whole lot of verbal taunts from one of the older girls, we just seem to have got over all that and now this has happened! In the end I went to the teacher and she sorted it out as, even though it was just verbal, it was starting to upset DS and there was one particular day when it turned into her pulling him around.

Has your son learned the real lesson here?

You do not get into a fight unless you are prepared to accept the consequences. Had a teacher seen him in the midst of the fight, he'd have been expelled or suspended.

While what the other boy did was wrong, your son was wrong to intervene. He should have gone to find an adult.

He needs to think before he acts.

When he gets older, he can join a fight to save another life, but he needs to realize he may lose his in the process, causing his family and others great sorrow. You either join a fight with overwhelming violence or seek help.

This is a different situation that self defense.

Because he will be the smaller kid for most of his educational life, he needs to understand the realities and understand the possibilities.

I'm with Austin here. DS13 is very pessimistic about adults ability to intervene. I think that a 'out of the blue' thing is different than a pattern of misbehavior (bullying.)

DS13 assures me that he has been in this situation plenty of times, and he has learned not to get in the middle unless he is 'prepared to accept the consequesnces.' He says that when he says: 'Sorry, I would have liked to have helped you, but there really wasn't anything I could have done at the time' than the other victim-kid has been understanding.

I wasn't happy to hear all this, but I think that it 'is what it is.'

My son is tall for his age, but definitly not as strong as same sized kids who are 2 years old. It just isn't happening. I do like the idea of verbal interventions, and if it is a pattern that becomes a different thing, but sadly, Ds's perspective is 'boys will be boys.'

((pout))
Grimity

I disagree. There was a study done (which I saw on a TV show about bullying, so I have no reference to offer--sorry about that) that said that the majority of the time, if a person steps up to say "Hey, that's not cool," bullying stops. (www.bullying.org says 57% of the time, it stops within 10 seconds.)

I think there's nothing wrong with saying, "cut it out." Telling an adult becomes tattling in many situations. I'd save that for a last resort.

Bullies tend to pick on kids who are alone. Sticking together is a good strategy. No, it didn't work this particular time. But that doesn't mean it's a bad idea. More kids = more power.

And personally, if my child were punished for standing up (verbally) for a friend against a bully, I'd argue his case and support him through it. He's doing the right thing!

This is from www.bullying.org, and I put especially relevant points in bold:

What should you do if you see someone else being bullied?

· Don't join in. Don't be mean to other kids by calling them names or picking on them.

· Walk away. Help the kid who is being bullied by leading them away from the bully, without looking at the bully. Did you know that bullying usually stops within 10 seconds after someone who is watching (a bystander) gets involved? Get help from an adult or yell for help if you need to.

· DO NOT try to fight the bully. You should never make fun of a bully or say mean things to a bully. It will just make things worse for you and everyone else.

· Believe the kid being bullied. Listen to what they have to say.

· Don't make the bully feel important by paying attention to them. When you ignore bullies, you take away their power.

· Bullies like to look tough in front of others, so they almost always have an audience when they are being mean. Most of the time the bullying will end if someone like you steps in to stop it.

· Make sure the kid who's being bullied tells an adult. Offer to go with them if it will help. If he or she doesn't want to talk to anybody, offer to talk to someone they trust for them.

· Involve as many people as possible, including other friends or classmates, parents, teachers, school counselors and the principal.

· Stand up, don't stand by. Kids can stand up for each other by telling a bully to stop teasing or hurting someone else.

· Refuse to join in and don't just sit back and watch. The bully wants an audience. You give bullies power when you watch. If you aren't part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

· Be a friend. Kids who are being bullied can sure use a friend. Walk with a friend or two on the way to school or recess or lunch or wherever you think you might meet the bully. Offer to do the same for someone else who's having trouble with a bully. Look out for kids who are new to school, or those kids who always seem to be alone. Invite the new kid at school to your party. Think about how you feel when you're left out of something.

· Treat others the way you want to be treated. Stand up for someone when he or she needs it, and when you need it, someone will stand up for you. Everyone has the right to be respected and the responsibility to respect others!

Fact: Peers are present 85% of the time when bullying occurs.

Fact: Bullying will stop within 10 seconds most of the time when someone else steps in to be a friend to the victim.

DS has very little confidence that adults can handle this type of issue effectively. He would also loathe referring to this behavior as �bullying� any longer. Instead, he simply calls the instigator a �jerk�.

Similar to Austin�s example of physical fighting, ds will put up with nasty remarks to a point. When he decides to give it back, he gets right in their face to articulate their shortcomings for a prolonged period of time. The typical reaction is embarrassment, retreating insult and future avoidance.

If my seven year old were punched at school, I would definitely notify the administration, preferably by email so that you all have a documented account of the incident.

Kriston, thanks for posting that. It's very helpful!

Walk away, but stand up. Don't fight, but intervene? This list is very contradictory and has no thresholds.

What will you do when the bully finds you alone in the bathroom or gangs up with his other bully-buddies? Wave this list in his face?

I see nothing wrong with piping up, but things have the possibility to escalate. What will you do then?

I don't think the list is contradictory. It approaches the problem from a variety of angles. Different kids in different situations will need different approaches. The list offers many. And something like walking away can be a form of standing up in the right context.

It is definitely possible to intervene without fighting. I did it a number of times when I was a kid, and I was never in a physical fight. You seem to have a very narrow idea of what is possible in dealing with confrontation, Austin. There's more available then merely "fight" or "do nothing."

I agree that things can escalate, but it takes two to fight. There are ways to avoid it and still stop the bullying. Sometimes it's words: "That's not cool," and sometimes it's non-violent actions: walking away silently with the child being bullied. If nothing else, this could surprise the bully because it's so unexpected.

It's good to think about what might happen. Planning ahead is smart. I wouldn't recommend that a child get between the bully and the child being bullied and talking with the bully for that very reason. It's pretty clear that the child put himself in the line of fire. But to me, letting a bully have free rein is the only wrong answer here. IMHO...

Tiz - sorry to hear about the fight, I would be proud of my ds for standing up for another child, but of course worried about his safety!
To be perfectly honest, my ds has been on both sides of that fence - standing in between a 'bully' and a smaller kid he was defending, and getting too carried away with a shoving game among several boys and girls. Hopefully a good frank discussion among parents and faculty will help guide what next steps are needed~

I think a kid is between a rock and a hard place when trying to help a friend being bullied.
Most schools have a zero tolerance, meaning if a kid who is hit, hits back -- that child is also punished.
A smaller/younger child trying to stand up for a friend will also become a target for the bully, almost always!
A kid who tries to get an adult, as instructed by most of the anti-bullying training, will get a reputation as a tattle tail, and usually becomes a target for bullies.
Kids who turn and walk away from bullies will usually get hit in the back. Bullies don't care about 'fighting fair', and bullies don't like to be ignored.

Our school is trying a new program this year that appears to be a bit of a project for grad students at the local college. They've picked about a dozen 5th graders from the K-5 school. They are 'training' them to be leaders to thwart bullying. GS10 happens to be one, as well as several others from his scout den. Their theory is to pick the older kids to act as models who speak out against bullying, and to portray good sportsmanship & academic achievement. We'll see.

Austin, I have found your post slightly controversial (in my opinion) so felt that I had to reply

Sorry, still haven't learnt how to quote so here goes...

"Has your son learned the real lesson here?
You do not get into a fight unless you are prepared to accept the consequences. Had a teacher seen him in the midst of the fight, he'd have been expelled or suspended".

Austin, my son did nothing wrong, he stood between two boys to stop a friend getting hurt - he did not "get into a fight". The only reason he tried to push the other boy away was because he was "strangling" my son. My son did not hurt the other boy even though DS is proficient at karate. If a teacher had seen him there is no way any action would have been taken against him- he was not in the "midst of a fight", he was being hurt! He would do the same again to help someone being picked on.

"While what the other boy did was wrong, your son was wrong to intervene. He should have gone to find an adult".

Austin, this I agree with (although not that he was "wrong") - in an ideal world this would work, but realistically when you are standing in a small enclosed area with no adult supervision (and teachers can't be everywhere all the time) there aren't always adults to hand and by the time he found one it would be too late. This is just my response to your thoughts, and my feelings are that they are not entirely valid to our situation, but thanks for taking the time to respond and share them because it is always good to hear other people's points of view.

Thanks everyone for all your thoughts. The school have taken it very seriously and it has all been sorted out - DH and I had a long meeting at the school today.

Kriston, thanks for the list - I found it very useful and also good suggestions for different situations.

I'm very glad to hear that the school is taking this seriously, and that you and your DH met with the school.

Best Wishes,
Grinity

Thanks Grinity

It is always a relief when things are sorted out!

I'm glad.

Any insight to share in dealing with the school, by chance? Did you contact them or were they already on top of it?

Hi Kriston, The first that they knew of it was when I mentioned it to DS's teacher. It transpires that this boy had also hurt another boy on the same day. The school were very proactive, took it seriously and had sorted it out by lunchtime today (the boy concerned admitted to his actions).

Good. It would have been better if they heard about it before you told them, but I'm glad (and relieved!) that they handled it so swiftly and proactively.

Actually, Tiz, the school might very well have taken action against your son, I'm sorry to say. Most school have a NO violence policy and that includes self-defense (repulsively stupid, I know). I know this from experience. When I was in high school I did exactly what your son did and ended up getting a one day suspension for it, the only trouble I EVER had in school. The instigators got 3 days. The school understood the situation and was very sympathetic to myself and the friend I stood up for, but they said if we were involved in a fight they HAD to suspend us.

From someone who got bullied a lot, that list is actually very good. Staying in groups, although not a permanent solution, is helpful, as is ignoring bullies and removing yourself from the situation.