Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments Indivual Learning plan ideas?

I would love to hear some IEP ideas.

MY DS9 will be going into 3rd Grade. He did the Woodcock Johnson Achievement test and his is average 9th Grade across subjects with writing skills at 3rd Grade level. He is immature for his age. Teachers & I agree he should not go up a grade.

Here's the plan for this year.
They will let him do 5th Grade while remaining with his class. His teacher has time to help with Math questions. He can get out his math puzzle books if done early.

They will give him the choice to read higher level books to be tested on the computer. They must read 50.

He has a choice to write a paragraph rather than a sentence for his cursive writing practice. Although, he did beatifully with his writing last year, he says he hates cursive.

They are open to him reading if he gets done early with his school work.

He may do some independent studies and presentations during this school year. They are to be done during the school day when he is done with work early. He likes science and has lots of interests. This gave him something to be excited about learning last year. It was very open ended.

They will pull him out with a group two times a week for 20 Minutes each time for math and reading enrichment program. He likes this.

Last year, he was very bored of already knowing the information or having to review too much. His teacher was very creative with supporting art projects and spelling and math competions that made the pracitce Homework more meaningful. I helped with Art once a week. He tuned out during art instructions he didn't need. He failed tests last year from zoning out. He sharpened many pecils down to little bits. Right now we need to stay in this school and make the best of it. The teacher says his plan can be flexible.

The goal is to challenge while let him feel apart of his peer group. So far the kids seem to look up to him for being smart in our neighborhood and school. I hope this will last. He's good at sports so that helps him connect with the other boys although social is hard at times. They say he is the very top student in his grade. I'm thnking they won't be teaching to his level. He learns very quickly and has not needed to study in the past.

I'm looking for ideas that will not be too much for the teacher. Please make sugggestions.

That all sounds very good. If he loves science (which was my daughter's fav subject), he can enjoy his projects. The teacher sounds very accommodating.

Here are a couple of thoughts--FWIW

I would recommend looking at Susan Weinbrenner's book and using the Resident Expert approach for at least some of his learning.

Ideally, the broad subject would be related to what class is studying in science and/or social studies:

A goal might read:

Given assistance setting goals, organizing resources, and developing a guiding question, "Tommy" will select a subtopic from an area of interest related to the classroom science or social studies unit. He will research the topic in order to answer his question, and will present his learning to the class in an oral, written or visual format.

I'm not sure how reading is organized in his classroom, but a thought would be to build his writing skills through his advanced reading abilities. For instance:

"Tommy" will demonstrate the ability to compare two books in the same genre or on the same topic, and to clearly explain the similarities and differences in writing.

OR

"Tommy" will demonstrate the ability to respond in writing to an open-ended question about a book (or books) that he has read, by identifying and exploring three or more examples from the text.

I question the goal of 50 books however. For a reader of his ability it seems like it would make more sense to "dig deep" than to read widely. I'm guessing from what you've shared that he already has the ability to read text and recall information from it. So, even with harder books, he won't necessarily be acquiring new skills if his goals are to read and answer questions. KWIM?

If he doesn't like cursive, and doesn't need extra practice, I'd personally recommend letting him stick with the sentence. Does he tend to finish his cursive ahead of other students? If he already has it mastered, would he be interested in learning to write in another alphabet?

As far as math, if there is a grade level curriculum that is available to him, then wouldn't the goal be to meet the standards in that curriculum?

Glad the school is willing to work with you. Our district is supposedly going to begin to develop individual plans, but I'll believe that when I SEE it!

all the students must read 50 books in third grade and take a ar test. He will have the choice of reading more advance level books.

I like the idea of him expanding his writing abilities tied into these books. He reads very quickly - about 10 books a week in summer 15 a week last winter. His testing show above level comprehension.

I think we have the math part of his day covered well at this point. We just have to try it and see how it goes.

I will try to get reccomended books. I am looking for more he can do that keeps him busy using his time well without isolation or without more books and stuff to keep track of.

Some of the ideas that I have are:
have him take an extra gym class. But that might cause resentment. wow would that be good for him if they would work. He loves gym.

another ideas that the school liked but couldn't schedule was to take music lesson. They offered the keyboard. I thought that would be great if he liked it and didn't feel like he was isolated missing out on being with his class.

I feel very luck the school is aware of abilities and willing to work with us. They said they never had a student like this before. I'm still worried for him. I'm not sure the exsiting plan will be enough for him. I feel like I need to be ready with more ideas. Things don't happen fast at school.

Does anyone have more ideas for IEP?
or thoughts on what worked for keeping their child challenged without isolation or resentment or feeling outside his peers.

Grade acceleration is not out option due to maturity.

Hi OTGmom,
I'm so sorry that your son isn't a normal average boy. He really just isn't. You kind of have to choose between keeping him learning at his readiness level and keeping him looking 'average, or at least normal.' Some kids just don't have the temperment to let you choose - they act out if things aren't right. Some are more pliant and let you choose. Of those, some eat themselves up inside and some are perfectly fine.

I really think that you should revisit the gradeskip option with some additional subject accelerations, or consider homeschooling if possible. Lots of times people see the '9th grade level' and think 'what is the point of going to 4th grade when they are at a 9th grade level?'

There are 2 points -
1) It establishes a precedent of 'this is a kid who has a unique developmental path, and we are going to give him a unique journey through the school system.
2) There may be other kids in the 4th grade who are reading at a 9th grade, or at least a 7th grade level. Theortically, more kids in 4th grade than in 3rd grade.
3) He may suddendly become more popular because more kids 'get his jokes' in 4th grade.
4) He suddenly seem more mature, because lots of the triggers for his immature behavior are probably bordom and condesention - both of which decrease as he moves upward in grade.

In otherwords - if you want him to be busy and not isolated, do everything you can to make sure he is learning at his readiness level, and surround him with kids who are as similar as possible to him.

I hope I'm not being a nag here, if so, consider me talking to the lurker who is sitting 'behind' you and identifying with your post, ok?

Smiles,
Grinity

IEP ideas: Try to get the 20 minute pull outs to be with kids who are similar in abiility level, not nescessarily in his grade.

I love the idea of keyboard learning. I'll bet you $5 that once he finally learns to keyboard comfortably that his written expression zooms ahead and starts to look like his other skills.

Actually, I'm just remembering your other post:


That Broad Written doesn't look like 'grade level' to me....

In the end, sitting and observing possible target classrooms and his 3rd grade classroom is one of the best ways to project how he might do with a skip.

Smiles,
Grinity

Woodcock Johnson III Achievement test.
Norms based on 8yrs,9months

subtest,stadard score, percentge rank, Age equivalent

Letter word ident., 122, 93,12-9
reading Fluency, 137, 99, 14-6
Spelling, 126,96,15-2
writing Fluency 130,98,12-1
passage comprehesion 126,96,15-3
writibg samples 101, 53, 8-11
word attack 121,92,16-11
reading vocabulary, 137, 99, 15-4
Story recall 128, 97, >21
understanding Directions 121, 92,15-0
Calculation 146, 99.9, 15-2
Math Fluency 122, 93, 11-2
Applied Problems, 140, 99.6, 13-10
Picture Vocabulary 118, 89, 12-0
Oral Comprehension 138, 99.5, >23
Quantitve Concepts 130,98, 12-11
Academic Skills, 134, 99,14-1


cluster grouping:
Basic reading skills 123, 94, 14-1
Reading Comprehension, 136, 99, 15-4
Math calculation 143,99.8, 13-4
Total Achievement 140, 99.6, 13-6


Grinity - I am showing more scores above from the same test. Understanding what it all means in terms of his educations and relationship is still difficult for me. (It would be handy to be a gifted mom)

I am very scared to have my DS9 skip a grade(s). What happens when it's time for him to go off to college and he is not emotionally prepare? I'm also worried about how he would feel little amongst bigger kids. He's about average or a little smaller than his current class mates. Sports is also inportant for him. He would be disadvataged in the older grades.

My DS9's prior school(prek-1st)therapist said there is nothing wrong with him, just 2 yrs behind in maturity and a bit out of balance because of high intelect. He can be intense. He will catch up. (She didn't specialize in gifted) She said he was the smartest kid she every met. Yet he seems to be only borderline DYS with these score.

I am also keeping in mind a 20 minutes away Montessori School. $$$$ is a issue for us. I also like the ideas of him staying in the school near home so relationship are more convient. I also feel like at this point since I don't have a choice let's see what his current school will do.

His current school said he should stay with peers due to maturity. They have grade skipped many kids.

I think I will take your advise of trying to get him into a higher level Math enrichment and/or look into the Math club which may have older kids. I've been wondering as he does the 5th grade math will he still like the 3rd grade math enrichment. My son does best with a little change at a time. I think we need to take baby steps.

His current school said 3rd grade should be more challenging but that is what they said last year.

Are schools usally open to parents observing the older classes for these purposes? That's intersting. I never thought of that.

I feel like a driven Mom who's child has a disease she is trying to understand, looking for the cure. Luckly I only have my current situation. That should keep it in perspective but I feel obsessed. I loved my kids and want the best for them.

ps. I don't think your a nag. I can take or leave anyone's advice. I appreciate it all. And sometimes I need to hear advice/ideas a few times before I can take it on. Please just be you.

I'm not holding back my long winded posts. It's so hard to give enough details for understanding in a paragraph. This stuff is complex.

Sing it sister! Very complex.

Yes, it is lucky that your son doesn't have a disease, but in many ways you are correct. His school is endangering him. Lack of opportunity to learn how to learn at this age can lead directly to situtions where real door close in the real future. You aren catasprphizing - you son is in danger, and the 'professional' keep being smug AND wrong. Bright people, when faced with situations that aren't 'ringing true' do rev into 'obsession mode' and a bright mom who feels that her son is in danger, and keeps being told - it's ok, is definitly wise to be in 'obsession mode.'

I'm thinking of Abraham with all those ex-egyptian slaves in the desert. That all had to radically change their perspecitives, and fast, in order to survive. And still it took a whole generation. You have considerably less time. My son was in your son's shoes in 2nd grade. He had a wonderful teacher for 3rd grade, but the problems were right back there in 4th grade. So I know all about skips that are later occuring. Not Pretty. It is totally possible to reverse your son's underachievement, but it won't be pretty.


That's good to hear. My BFF from far away came to visit when my son was in 1st grade with a behavior chart. She told me what I'm telling you, and I dismissed her. I said: 'Oh no, I asked the teacher and she assured me that he was bright, but nothing unusual.' I believed the teacher, not my BFF who had BTDT. It can't be changed, but perhaps I can help you?

Sports and scholarships are strong reasons not to skip a child. But by sports I mean kids who 'live and die' to play sports. And all the kids I know like that are playing 'up' (with older kids) in my town.

I think that my son may not be ready emotionally to go off to college early. There is this thing called a gap year, where they do something interesting between high school and college, including a 'post-graduate' year at a boarding school. One of the key insights I've gotten from other moms of HG and PG kids is this: met their needs now, worry about the future in the future.

BTW - just because a child is 'borderline' for the Young Scholar Program doesn't mean that they don't need serious accomidations in their learning. The way the cure looks at the tail, there are 2 to 3 'almost' YSP kids for every single YSP kid. That's a lot of wildly, hugely gifted kids! And remember, 2/3 of YSP kids are bunched up right at the borderline, yes?

So if you child is at the borderline, then, by my math, they are within about 5 IQ points of 66% of young scholars. Cool, huh?

And since IQ tests were not developed to make these kind of fine distictions, I would basically say that you child is 'in the range' of the majority of young scholars.

where's Dottie? Have i overstepped? I'm better with imagination than numbers!

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Also, ask the school how often they do skip children...exactly...

wow! thanks for the effort in your response.

I will march onward

My DS in 3rd grade has been given a IEP this year and that has helped but I need more adjustment and I'm looking for suggestions.

The good news:
He is doing above level Math - still tweaking that situation but I feel like I know what to do here. He is also reading above grade level that's going well. He read 30 AR books for the year mostly 100% on his tests. 50 are required for the school year. Most of the incorrect answers on papers were do to checking work habits and I think he needs to work on this but has finally got that under control. Except for 4th grade Math where he needs to remember to label and show work. Below 93% is a B+ in our school. Here are his grades so far

English 94%, A-
Penmanship, 86% Satisfactory
Spelling 99% A+
Social Studies, 95% Outstanding
Science 97%, Outstanding
Phonics 100%, A+
Math 94% A-
Reading 96% A

I'm not including special like gym, I don't want to focus on them)

My concerns: 2 not so bad situations with behavior at school- I'm thinking displaced frustration feelings. He has been complaining about so much work at school. He is a very ambitious student. His teacher says he keeps busy doing his folder work. I think folder work is lots of worksheets. Most of the work is probably too easy. He is interested in learning many things so it feels like school should not be boring. I am not ready to put him a grade ahead in school. The teacher/school agree and are will to work with me. They have grade accelerated student successfully before.

With his grades and the test scores how do I know what else should be changed. Can we get him out of some work that is less meaningful? Right now he feels like he has too much work to do. But he is ambitious. I think its too many worksheets that are not meaningful. The teacher said they are not reviewing the study guides in class. They just added enrichment for reading and Math which is good but that means more work. This kid doesn't need more Home work or seat work. He has amazing reading speed and comprehension. He does not need much repetions to learn something. He needs to do the cursive writing/penmanship.

Is there a way to know by his achievement score what he should condense or eliminate? Please look back to prior posts on this thread for WJIII score if that helps. He knows his spelling words and study guides the first day he bring them home.

What else can I say to this teacher to get her to understand or meet his needs?
I'm not sure she has seen his WJIII test scores or understands their significant so I will bring it up.

RE: WWJ, Is this right? anything 100 is average scoring for that age? every 15 is a standard above average?

Achievement test scores - unfortunately - don't help much with placement.

What about you son physically moving to olderkid classrooms for one or two of his classes?

What about asking for end-of-year tests to see how he would do on this year's, next year's and 'compact' the curriculum so he doesn't get unneeded repition.

What about better 'Folder Work' - you may have to supply it yourself, or get 'Folder Work' from teachers who teach older kids?

Is an online class allowed during the school day?

How is his keyboarding going?

Could you start a 'Jr. Great Books' literature discussion group with some of the brightest kids from his grade and the grade above?

Does he have a favorite topic that he could use as an independent study project instead of realms of 'Folder Work?'

Best Wishes,
Grinity

Please be patient with this question. I am truly trying to get this. OK the achievement test doesn't help with placement but can it support his ability to not need so much repetition, his quick reading speed and amazing memorization or comprehension? The test got their attention to help him so how can I use this to his advantage? I knew very little about testing last year when I pushed for it. My idea for the testing is so they would better know what to do with him.

I would like him to test out or pretest. What subject would I ask for? (think baby steps) Should I ask what she thinks is the most boring or take up the most time? I think she thinks students need to spend a year learning so they don't miss something. My son's ability is a new situation for her. I don't think she will say to me he doesn't seem to need X because she doesn't see it. She thinks he is doing great - look at all his good grades. I'm not saying she is not willing. I think I need to try to get her to understand his need and ability. I then need a solution that is not time consuming for her.

I would be open to him going up a grade or two for a class but I bet it's a scheduling issue and I think that situation would work better as a plan for next year.

He is doing spelling city.com for his spelling words at home. This makes his spelling studying meaningful with typing 15 words. He has not been motivated very much with the typing other than this.

He knows Spelling words the first day. I tell him not to study after the first day, just review the night before the test. I don't want him to do above level spelling or vocabulary. He already is getting challenged with vocabulary with his reading. He has said if he says certain things to his peers they don't get it so he's adjusting his conversation vocabulary. I just don't want to push this right now. He has not been motivated very much with the typing other than this.

I want to make more progress and need a plan.

I would think that a talk with a principal or other long time administrator is in order. Ask them, "what have you done in the past with children like my son?" or "have you had children with this ability before and what did they do?". I know my kid's school was adamant about not skipping grades, and yet some kids did. Some successfully, some did not have a good fit a grade up. Each kid reacts differently to this. The school rejected any idea of doing grade up math, or going to the grade up classroom for math time. And yet some kids in the school did that, too. Generally very successfully. Their parents were persistent until it happened.

You are probably right that you need to make this no more work for the teacher, which means YOU probably need to do it. If you want it, you must be polite but persistent, and helpful. Be sure to ask that if your kid is doing advanced work (but does not skip a grade), ask what will happen when he's in the last grade at that school. will they get advanced work to him? Will he have to be transported to the other school to do the advanced work?

When possible, pass along the things your son has said about school - frame it as "he says the worksheets are boring, he says he already knows how to do all this" as opposed to "I see that my son is bored, I see that he knows this already".

Our school says they never had anyone like this before. I am very willing to supply activites or workbooks. They just need to know it is ok to skip some work or do something different. So it's test out or pretest. I just don't know where to start. What would impact his day and make it better. Where would they be most confortable making a change.

I talked with his teacher. She will not let him skip any more work as she says it's all essential. I suggested he skip his 3rd grade Math page and just do the pretest a week ahead. She feels he needs to do his 3rd grade Math pages so he learns everything. I don' understand why the pretest would not take care of this? I realize this is a new concept for her.

He really does not have a problem doing this math page it only takes 5 minutes. I was looking to get him out of some less challenging work so he could use his time better. He did have some work checking issues on this math page but I think he has overcome that on his 3rd grade math. He still has some work checking issues on his 4th grade math.

He is the first one done with his work and has time to read. She said he has a way to go with managing his time, sometimes getting out reading before the other stuff is done. She is also working on getting him to always look at her when she is speaking. It looks like for right now I have to just chill out and try to help him prove he is ready for more challenges by meeting the 3rd grader work habits and behavior expectations.

I think all the worksheets may be more repetition than he needs. The teacher looks at it this way - we all need to get our boring laundry done but despite that we can take feel good about finishing those many loads. I see this point but let's try to have balance here. I explained he is not the average student and learns things more quickly. I don't think their system shows this. Most kids might need 7 repetions and he needs 1 or 2. Everyone is just taught the same material whether they know it or not. She said hopefully he will develop some empathy for the other kids. I guess this is why so many home school but we can't do that.

Here is a child who loves to learn and is excited about it at home. Why is he bored with science when it's a passion of his? Will this situation take away his passion for learning? Is what I do at home enough?

He is much better than last year. He is not hypoglycemic after school any more from all the stress. How do we know when it's just necessary venting or needs a change? I just want his day to feel meaningful. The teacher said he is doing very well, she is expecting all As. We both agree social is going great this year. She does not see a problem here. I think I'm at my note/phone call limit for a while. There will be an IEP meeting in Nov.

Anyone have a suggestion for finding peace with this.

Does your state have GIEP laws? I'm sorry if I'm missing something from previous statements in the post. If you have a GIEP, generally you can request a meeting to occur. You can drive the meeting, and you can refuse the accomodations they are offering if you feel they are not enough.

Pretests are usually reasonable IEP accomodations for Gifted children. The teacher cannot refuse to do something on the IEP. So, once it's in there, you can enforce it. Make sure the IEP also contains some kind of activity he can do while other kids are learning the topic at hand.

He has an individual Accommodation Plan. I'm thinking this is the same thing. When they offered this plan they said it was flexible. I think the teacher wants to make sure he is ready for the following grade. I have to find ways to overcome her concerns.

My DS broad score on WJIII was 145 Math. My DS in 3rd Grade, wrote on a school project what he would like to learn this year was decimals and square roots. What do you think if I tell him he could do Alex and the he can keep progressing until he gets to this. Do you think that is very far off? He is doing 3 & 4 grade math this year. Do you think that will just make his future math classes more boring? Should I just keep with the Mindware math books and the math olypiad questions.

I guess you need to decide how you are going to approach this. Yes, if you let him continue to move on he will have that much more trouble with classes if something isn't done for the future. At the same time if something isn't done you have a child who is underchallenged, bored, and who knows what else? I also can't see how a child would progress socially if they are doing all their own independent work rather than whatever the class is doing. This is where we are running into trouble again to a certain extent with my DD9. She is now catching up and surpassing her classmates in Language Arts, so we are considering again what to do for next year. We held her to fifth in ELA as the plan for this year because of the socialization. But that will definately change again for next year. So we will have to see what the school plans to offer. I know it's neither here nor there but my DD's scores aren't that different than your son's, so the potential is definately there.

I see my DS9 as young for his age and needs to stay with his peers for the most of the day. I think he should do an online course for math and/or science and test early or test out of some of the other work that he doesn't need so many repetitions. maturity would be an issue for managing the online course but not so much the work. He has so many interests that if he gets out of something that should free him up to do something more meaningful like learn an instrument or an independent study. I am not against him moving up for some classes but this is probably a scheduling issue. I am concerned that some of the classes he would move up for it still would not be enough it would be too slow. There is also concern about being prepared for older grade expectations.

I'm thinking this school is just not going to see the light so easily. I'm trying to think baby steps. My son does better with a little change at a time too.

Another thought...I was thinking really a wonderful way of handling his education would be to have him home schooled part of the day and go to school for his specials. That way he could keep his local friends. This might make him feel a little on the outside not being there all day. I think it would be great if his homeschooling would use online classes so he could interact with kids of his ability. This sounds so "out there thinking". I can't even imagine suggesting this to his parochial school. I really can't afford to do this. I could imagine this working out with a teacher to get him started and teach him to be more self reliant. The teacher would needed to be less involved as he matures. If I was able to get back to work and do work at home and make enough money... OK, wake up it's only a dream.

It's totally reasonable for you to have had this expectation. Schools are supposed to know a lot about how to teach children. Your son is a child. Schools are supposed to know a lot about how to teach your son. It is ok to be dissapointed when look at the scores and say that they actually don't know what to do. This is a big step - the first step to solving a problem is recognizing it.

Is there a regional or state level that provides help in 'unusual' cases like your son? Our state has a professional at the state level who can help IF the local school requests it.


This is why moving your child to a different classroom for some or part of the day is a popular alternative. At least ask, NOW, if they will consider this for Science and Math. If they say no, you are a step closer to a yes for next year.


I want to gently ask you why you are anticipating a problem that hasn't occured yet. Don't think - just ask. Believe me, if you were being pushy, you'd ask for all the gifted kids in the building to be placed together, one room school house style, and taught at their own level. You aren't being pushy.


This sounds reasonable.


Not so reasonable - developing flexible conversation skills isn't a reason to stop teaching him. Perhaps you can design a vocab curriculum that links words with similar meaning together and he can practice using words flexibly?

Have you read any books about compacting and differentiating, such as http://www.susanwinebrenner.com/handouts.html


This might be a good way to give you an idea of how much is involved with compacting - it's pretty complicated and a lot of work for the teacher. More than extra work, it's extra responsibility. Most teachrs aren't ready to say: This is what I hope to teach this year. This is what a child in my classroom really needs to learn. This material here will provide a firm foundation for the future.

Of course a teacher thinks that everything that they do in a classroom is important! And most of the time, they are correct.

The achievement test is good to support the IQ numbers - to show that they aren't some weird 'out of the blue' statement. They are good to show the school that they are dealing with a 'rare bird.'

Seriously, you have made lots of good progress. You are giving above age math. I would not buy the teacher's position that learning to pretend to listen to the teacher while she talks by eye-tracking and learning sympathy for other ND agemates are worth goals for a 3rd grader. All 3rd graders deserve to learn academics in school, along with 'protocol' types of skills. Knocking the corners off your little square peg so that he can fit in the 3rd grade round whole isn't going to fix the basic fact that the 3rd grade hole isn't the hole that will nurture him. In know of lots of GT boys who don't look like they are listening while they are listening more intensely than any child around them. I know lots of GT boys who didn't develp empathy for their agemates - only resentment!

Baby Steps:
1) Ask for subject acceleration in Science to another classroom.
2) Look around for better Folder work, and make sure your worksheets get put into his Folder.
3) Check your state's Dept of Education website and see if there is a person to send an email to at the state level, asking how your school can request their expertise.

I'm hoping that patienice is leaking through every word of this post. You are in an unfair position, and it isn't your fault. Unfortunately, since you are the only one who can see the problem, it's on your shoulders to keep asking and asking and asking for what you need until something shakes free.

My nickname as a kid was Casssandra. Well, one of my nicknames. My dad in particular also called me 'PIA' and 'his princess.' I think they all fit pretty well.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Oh! I missed this page!
Lovely idea - he could go academically at the rate he needs to go.


Perhaps your school could give you a tuition break if you only send him for part of the day?
I don't think that you are going to need a teacher to get your son doing online classes. Try Aleks and see. If he can do Aleks at all independently, then he will do great with k-12, which is much more kid-user friendly. I'm not sure when the square roots are going, but it is the quickest way to get him there.

You could also hire distance tutors to work with him, such as www.growingstars.com

there are really many choices. The more steps you take, the more you will know about what to try next.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

[quote=onthegomom]Another thought...I was thinking really a wonderful way of handling his education would be to have him home schooled part of the day and go to school for his specials. [quote]

This is what my DD9 does, with a little more. She attends the PS for English Language Arts, music, and art. She homeschools her remaining subjects.

It has worked really well overall for us. I'm not sure she will attend for ELA again next year since she is now on grade level for 5th grade in her writing, the only reason she was taking it at the PS. But she might want to take an elective since she will be at the middle school. <<cringe>>

thanks Grinity!

is your name about grinning/smiling? I was just curious. I hope you don't mind the question. I like it.

You have given me some good stuff to look into. Do state services work for a Parochial Private school? We have some gifted laws in our state.

I have wanting My DS to try Alex. We just have not been able to fit it in. I'm going to approach my DS about it. Maybe he has an idea. I'm thinking this is a place I really should start. The online course this summer was a different ballgame this would be easier to manage.

I did talk to some people at one time about the K-12 program. That's free online ed with a teacher in our state! That's amazing for the right kid but I want my kid to go to school for the social. Always trade offs. If their is dual enrollment I would have to pay. I might need to take another look at that.

I did get Susan Winebrenner's book from the library and felt very overwhelmed. That all felt like to big of a job although I do like some of the ideas.

I wish I could find more peace with this. I need to chill out. I gonna ask my DD6 to teach me some more yoga. She learned in K. She is actually a good teacher and takes it seriously. I'm thinking she is gifted too.

The ideas are very appealing - but really, that feeling you have of being overwhelmed should help you understand why so many kids have been grade or subject accelerated. It's really hard to do as she says without institution wide support. Yes the ideas are appealing - but no you shouldn't ask the teacher to do this for your kid!

The Yoga sounds like a great idea. Also, plain old 'deep breathing' has been helping me a lot lately.

Ask for the subject accelerations! Call and set up a meeting today. Really.

Grinity (yes - you guessed it: I do smile and grin alot!)

I've heard good things about K12 for gifted kids too.

If 'social development' is the main argument against homeschooling, then I have really good news for you. Lots of folks who have lived this report that they child has more social time and better quality social time once they leave 'bricks and mortar' schools behind. It's not like your child is learnig with other kids at his current school, although with a few subject accelerations that might happen.

Best Wishes,
Grinity

Has anyone heard of a math soap opera? It just never ends...
Warning this is long you may want to turn around right now and head to another thread. I just needed the venting so here I am again. sorry after reading this again I realized I'm repeating my self here with some stuff but I'm to tired toedit- I got to go back to sleep.

My DS is doing 3rd and 4th grade Math both this year and should finish both this year. I had talked about DS going up a grade in June but it was a scheduling issue. I don't think this would of worked anyway because it will still be too slow with too much review.

In 4th, He is doing some pre algebra? 10-X=2 (I'm not Mathie) which is good but there still is much too easy Math mixed in. The gifted instructor is supervising 4th Grade math and letting him skip some work he doesn't need. I'm not sure what his grade is I would guess about B-. He is using a new format not used in earlier grade math. He has had issues with not showing his work, leaving answers blank, not labeling, putting his computations in the answer book and not in the show your work area. Points off have been do to these situations and not an understanding issue. He and another boy have been going to gifted instructor for his orientation to 4th Grade Math up till this week because now she will be busy with gifted pull out classes. I think he has improved on this checking work on 4th Math.

In 3rd grade math all students listen to about 5 mins. of instruction then do side A of Math page. My DS can go on to his 4th Math or do his Mindware Math book. He doesn't have to review the Side A with the rest of the class.Side B is HW, but my DS skips this. I tried to get him out of Side A suggesting he pretest a week ahead. I would be willing to review anything he missed or he could do that week of papers if needed. The teacher will not do this.

She says there is terms he must learn and this is the only way she knows he is getting all the information. I just don't understand this. I think he will grasp the terms in her instructions. He had some work checking issues, leaving answers blank, not doing the second part of an instruction. She commented on this and I think this immaturity of work habits are her reasoning to hold him back. I think in the past 2 weeks he has overcome this. He brought home a paper for Math today to color in 4 different thermometers to show the given degree. Why?

I explained to his teacher he is not the average student who may need 7 or more repetitions to get something he usually needs 1 or 2. ( I asked her if she could see this and she said he gets his work done first and has more time to read than anyone else. I let her know I see the frustration building and was hoping there was some extra work he could skip because he feels overwhelmed with so much work that he is bored with. (I wish I didn't say bored.) She said it's all necessary.

I didn't get this into the conversation but: His WWJII broad Math is 145. 3 deviations from average students. He has amazing comprehension, reading speed, and memory. He just gets a lot easily. He could do multiplication and division in K. He could do 4 digit addition and subtraction with carrying over in 1st.

Well this teacher seem bothered by me as it is only 6 weeks of school and she has had two conversation's and 2 brief notes from me. I left it with her that I will let this Math go for now and encourage my DS to take pride in completing all his work and meeting the student expectations for a 3rd grader. Hopefully he will not turn into a problem with him. He has been sad about school and says he doesn't like the way class is. I'm going to try to keep talking to him about this. I know the empathy and understanding helps a little.

We are suppose to have an IEP meeting soon. Hopefully I can make some progress with our new principal. She asked me to give her time to research acceleration and gifted.

I think the best way to have him do Math in this school would be to take it out of there hands. If he did an online class with Northwestern for example with a teacher and students that might be great, I'm a little concerned about student to teacher communication because that was hard this summer with his online writers workshop. Or if he could do something like Alex where he could go at his own speed and the school could get proof of mastery. DS says he is ready to give Alex a try after school. Our school is wireless so that should help.

Finacially I can not do homeschooling.

Accelloration and Above grade expectations?

I'm not sure I can really even ask this question properly so please be patient.

I have a 3rd Grader who I think could understand the 5th Grade science. I think he would be excited to be in this class. I'm not sure he would meet the normal 5th grade expectations. When he needs to do writing the physical writing of more than a sentence at a time in cursive would be bothersome. He does not know proper sentense structure yet. He has done just a little writing in school but nothing longer than a pargraph. What other considerations are there in a science class? Would they be worried about handling of chemicals and fire? How would you know a child is ready? Science is a passion and he reads and watches some at adult level.

I have emailed the state gifted education and left messages. I never heard back from them. I wonder if there is another way or do they only talk to schools.

If a teacher feels a pretest does not overcome the concern for a child to learn the information, would you think there is no way to convince her? I'm thinking I'm done with her she just can't see what I'm talking about.

I'm thinking the only way to make more of a change is to appeal to the principal. I'm going to show her some portfolio. I wonder whether she would know what happens at each grade of learning. Really the math situation is not such a big deal. He doesn't mind the 3rd Grade math page so much.

It's really a matter of balancing his day, using his time well. Giving him a amount of learning with in his day so he can tolerate his day. My big problem is what do I get him out of? How do I prove he can do this and overcome their concerns with out teacher maintance. What subject would he miss/condense or pretest? What do I fight for and how do I prove to school it will be ok?

I'm thinking about testing thru CTY online talent search. They do the SCAT test. I think the SCAT test does above level testing for language arts, writing and math? DS now in 3rd Grade is interested in taking an online class this summer. Do you think this would be the best testing to do right now. If its better to take something else he could enroll at Northwestern again instead because he will qualify with IOWA scores. Or should I try to get him to take the Explore test which I think is just for Math. I'm not sure where I would do this. I'm feeling impatient about school right now and would like to do something that proves his abilities more that the WJIII. Any suggestions. I am waiting to here about DYS application also.