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Given the opportunity would you choose to send your child to a school for the gifted?

I know some of you already do. What has been your experience? Are your kids happier? Have you found any drawbacks? What about socially?

I'm really interested in your candid answers. DD7 is in 2nd grade now. Her school has tried hard to meet her needs but with any public school there comes a point where the options are limited. At times I wonder if having dd in an environment where she can learn at her speed would be the best thing for her. Would she flourish in a place where she can learn subjects when she's ready to regardless of her age, ie: chemistry, foreign language, etc.

Her school has not suggested a grade skip. I'm not sure if she's even ready for one since there are things in 2nd grade that she has not learned yet. The thing about dd is how quickly she absorbs information. If she doesn't know how to do something it takes one instruction and she has it mastered. Her 2nd grade teacher has commented on this many times. This leads me to wonder how well she would do when allowed to learn at her own pace. Am I making any sense? My dilemma: Is public school with adjusted work the best for her or is it ultimately a disservice?

I know you can't answer my specific question of which is best but hearing your personal experiences helps me think through these questions.

My ideal elementary school would have block scheduling where the children could move comfortably from room to room, age group to age group, and pace group to pace group in each subject. The teachers would have wonderful sences of both humor and decency. Writing and Reading would be uncoupled, so that an age appropriate writer who is ready for big books could easily be accomidated. The blocks would be long, and perhaps not everyday, so that children could work on projects. Working in groups would be supported, and children would be taught how to do it, but it wouldn't be a required thing. It would be recognised that some children aren't ready for group and academics together at this age. Memorization would be approached as an important skill, but not the only important skill, so that a child who was having trouble with Math Facts wouldn't be held back from learning Math Ideas. Perhaps no homework, but maybe in school study halls so that children would learn to work independently, with support. Maybe independent study projects for kids who didn't need the study hall time?

It would be recognised that for some students 8-3 daily is too much, and partial programs would exist to support homeschoolers. Afterschool activites in sports, dance, music, karate, art, lego leauge and drama would exist on-campus so that children with two working parents could us their time well. The afterschool programs would be of such a high quality that other children from the community would attend and broaden the population of children that the kids get to interact with.

Given all that, DS is in an academically oriented private school with no pretensions of being "for gifted." The nearest "gifted" school is 1 hour away. I would strongly prefer to be gradeskipped from early elementary school to paying for private school, but that wasn't offered. The fear with gifted schools is that they can be to "full of themselves" to recognise the difference between level 2+ and level 4 kids. Flexibility is the key, key, key thing for any school.

Smiles,
Trinity

I'm really afraid that I will offend someone with this post, but it has been on my mind a lot as I go to help out at my son's public school and just wanted to say something. I know that many of you have tried public school and it has been a disaster and you have done what is best for your kids and I respect that. I just hate to see people give up on ordinary public schools; free public education is one of the foundations of our democracy and I think we should support it whenever we reasonably can.

For my DS, who is very social and adaptable, I really like having him in an ordinary public school. He meets a broad variety of people that I am sure I would never be able to find anywhere else. There are homeless kids, immigrants (many whose families don't speak English), migrants, working poor etc.

When the district started a full time dedicated class of gifted kids, the gifted class was suddenly filled with white middle class boys. No doubt this is a ascertainment problem since there are plenty of gifted poor/female/spanish-speaking kids, but still I really hate the idea of putting DS in a class of people that look just like him and I hated to support a system that was clearly biased. So I kept him out of the gifted class. (There were other reasons besides this, like the fact that he was still way ahead of what the gifted class would be doing and the teacher was brand new. By keeping him in the regular class I got to pick a teacher who was fantastic with DS and gave him tons more challenges than he would have gotten the MG class.)

DH is a teacher and I work in advocacy/couseling/health care. We both went to public schools with demographics similar to what DS's has. The exposure to people different than us has helped us be more effective in our jobs and, I think, contributed to our understanding of the world in general. For us, this exposure is an important part of why we send DS to public school.

Soap Box Warning! I have also watched a lot of middle class families leave the public school and as a result there are very few school volunteers, the percentage of kids with high needs is higher, and funding for the school is lower. DS's class has over 50% Title 1, and 6 kids with developmental problems, and no aid. This is wrong! I want to have my school work for everyone and one thing I can do to help the school and the kids and teachers who are there is to keep my kid there and volunteer! I think I have a civic responsibility to send my son to his local public school. OK, getting down now.

If, however, my son was very unhappy, getting depressed, or in physical danger, and I could not find a way to make the public school work, I would look for other options. I do understand that public school will not work for everyone and I am glad that private schools and homeschooling are options.

I hope I haven't offended anyone. I just want people to give public schools a chance.

Trinity I wish i could have gone to your ideal school! I wish my dd could now.

Trinity - your ideal school sounds wonderful. For kids at ALL levels!

ACS - I agree with you. My son is at a regular neighborhood public school. We are on a waiting list for a public gifted magnet. The gifted magnet actually has more poverty and minority populations than our neighborhood school. And if public school doesn't work, I'd actually rather homeschool then send my child to a homogeneous, expensive school where I feel sometimes kids can get a sense of entitilement ("But mom - all the kids are driving Beamers to school talking on their IPhones!"). But I totally understand where people get to the point of pulling out of public school. I'm very new at advocating (I have a 1st grader and a 3 year old) and I'm finding it very painful. And the no child left behind hasn't helped the situation for kids on this end of the spectrum.

acs - I understand your ideals about public school. I think you are correct on many levels however I personally would have a hard time keeping my child in a school that is not doing all they can to meet his/her needs just to try and keep them surrounded by diversity. Does that make sense? I am all for giving public schools a chance but I dont think I'd continue to do it if it was not what was best for my child and their education. I'm sure we all probably feel that way! I do agree that making sure your kids are exposed to diversity is essential to them being well-rounded and prepared for life in general. I just also believe that there are certain situations that require more than the public school system can support but I do agree with your points.

Asc, I'm not at all offended. I "believe" in a strong public education. Unfortunatly, public education didn't believe in DS11! If wishing made it so, he'd still be there with an early gradeskip. I'm hoping that by sharing our story here, other parents with younger kids will be better able to get the early needed gradeskips that can make a public school actually work for some Level III kids. BTW, our public school has less diversity all around than our new private school. That's a whole other sad tale, isn't it.

I've torn my hair out trying to "have my cake and eat it too" - still got my eyes wide open for opportunities, but haven't gotten as far as I would like. Yes the solutions start at home, but yes the solutions are much bigger than any individual. Paradox Alert!

Smiles,
Trinity

One of my biggest problems with public schools would be the lack of intellectual peers for my daughter. Also, one of the beauties of attending a school for the highly gifted is that my daughter actually doesn't feel different or special. It is hard to get arrogant about being gifted when everyone around her is gifted. So far as the children goes, their school is as average as any other school.

I don't have a lot of money, but I decided that having her attend this school was a sacrife worth making. We have to drive 45 min. each way, but even this did not discourage us. We just use the time to talk, sing and some times catch up on sleep (my daughter only on the last one).

My daughter's school is not perfect and they still have a lot to learn, but it is much better then most and it is definitely where my daughter belongs. She is thriving and growing by leaps and bounds. Most importantly, she is happy.

I wished the school trinity described existed, I wished it would be a free, public school and that every child had access to it. Unfortunately for us, our public schools are not equipped or sometimes even willing to accomodate these very special little people we call our gifted.

I went to a school for the gifted--it was University Laboratory High School in IL. http://www.uni.uiuc.edu/

In grades K-6 I was an outcast and I actually thought something was wrong with me. My self-esteem was very low. I blossomed going to Uni. I had friends, I got involved in activities, I didn't feel like a freak, and I loved my classes and teachers.

I would love to give my kids that kind of opportunity but there is nothing available here. We would have to move and that probably won't happen anytime soon.

I like diversity. Interestingly, the HG/PG kids in our public school stick together on the playground and outside of school. They are comrades. They're from diverse backgrounds economically, but there should be more hispanics considering our population (clearly id process needs improvement). I think this has been a good early exposure for my kids. However, once in high school, I agree with CFK that I'd prefer higher level academics and the deep philosophical discussions, debate teams, extracurricular activities that are not all about athletics that seem to come with expensive private schools. I can say it easily when there's not a high caliber private school around here that's not a boarding/military school--but if I had to really cough up the money, I might change my mind.

I've been thinking more since i wrote my last pro-public school post.

Dottie- DS is 12 and in his first year of middle school. He is not grade advanced but is +3 in math and in a gifted cluster 1/3 of the day for reading/language. I was prepared for a bit of a fight when we started middle school, but they took one look at DS's scores and gave us a dream schedule.

bianc85a--I really am not suggesting the public school is the right place for every kid or that there is anything wrong with finding a good fit for you child. You have a place where she is thriving and that is fabulous.

kimca--you make a great point about diversity. I have always lived where the publics schools are where the poor kids go because I have mostly lived in small towns and poor urban areas. I know that is not always the case and that sometimes one actually finds more diversity outside the public schools, so I'll apologize for over generalizing.

tamianne--I agree that I would not keep DS in public school if it were not working just for diversity, especially if he were angry/scared/depressed because I don't want his associations with diverity to by negative.

tamianne and bianc850a--We have not had problems with DS not having his educational needs met or having intellectual peers. It's not that he is especially challenged or that he has any real peers, we just find that there are other ways and places to meet these needs. I have joked that I actually home school, it's just that I consider the public school to be an important part of his curriculum. LOL. We supplement academically and socially after school, on weekends, and over the summer. With the money we save by going to public school, we can afford great summer programs where he is challenged and makes good friends. We travel. We read as a family a lot. He has music lessons and lots of time playing with the neighborhood kids. I also tell DS that he is responsible for his own learning and that he can learn wherever he goes. But I do understand that this works for us partly because of of DS's personality and partly because the schools have been adaptable.

The point I wanted to make in my first post is to encourage people who are still deciding what to do to give public schools a chance. More people than just your child will benefit if your child is able to succeed there. There is more at stake in our educational decisions than just where our child will get the best *academic* education--I think we forget that school isn't just a commodity. That being said, if you try it and it isn't working, then, of course, try something else. I get on my soapbox because I have had 6 of my good friends take their kids from the public schools just because they heard that the high school wasn't very good, even though their kids were in elementary and their kids hadn't had problems. The result has been that I am now the only parent from my son's class (of 100 kids) who regularly volunteers. That's why I get so frustrated!

Wow- so much great discussion! I have a few thoughts to share as well. First of all, ACS, if you think you said something offensive, please point it out, as I cannot find it! You are too sweet to be concerned that voicing your opinion will earn you any animosity. My family was supporting public schools up until we found they just wouldn't work with us. I still vote in favor of our public schools when local matters come up, and I am upset when I hear of budget cuts.

Cathy, I read about your school in Blue Balliett's books, right? I'm so touched by your story and I am glad that you found a place where you felt comfortable.

Bianca, I am happy to hear that you were not sleeping at the wheel! I have heard mixed reviews of Mirman, and I suppose it only goes to show that it all depends upon the individual.

Thanks,Lorel, for the encouragement. I did not actually want to say anything offensive, nor hurt anyone. I think, though, I know how hard we all work to do the right thing for our kids and agonize and second guess ourselves crazy. So I worry whenever I talk about hating my own grade skip or working hard to keep DS in public school that someone who made a different decision will feel that I have judged them unfairly. In other words I imagine that everyone is as fragile as I am. LOL. Second, although I am not mad at anyone on the board, I am still annoyed with my friends who pulled their kids out(without any reason but hearsay) and left the PTA high and dry and DS's class with no volunteers but me. I was afraid some of that anger would come through in my post, but I'm glad to hear it didn't!

Dottie,
Strangely, the scores that worked are the state mandated test scores. I don't much care for the test myself, but I've taken the attitude that if the state mandates them, then they'll have to live with the results. The one good thing about them, though, is that the are on the computer and they self-adapt. So when DS gets a score that says "advanced for 10th" and he's only in 4th, he really has gotten several 10th grade questions (even though the questions themselves may not be well written, etc)

acs: Your post didn't offend. I do, however, get annoyed/offended/angry when someone (e.g. my mother, a former teacher acquaintance, etc.) say that we "owe it to the schools" to keep DS6 in public school.

Wha-huh? Um, no. The schools owe it to *us* to return to us the sunny, happy boy we sent to them, only with more knowledge in his little head. (They failed on both accounts!) *We* do not owe the schools anything!

I was always very pro-public schools...until they let DS6 down so dramatically. When we pulled him out, we had thought we might send him back to the public schools with a grade skip. But that seems unlikely now. Home schooling has been much too healthy for him to go back. We'd definitely go gifted school before we'd go back to public school!

We are also considering a private gifted school (also more diverse than our lily-white, middle-class suburban public school), so I'd love to hear more about the good and the bad from those with kids in gifted schools.

Our tuition would be 10K per year. Is it worth that? Especially given the fact that home school is going swimmingly? Why might a small gifted school (with less than 100 students in K-12) be better than home schooling with the support of a highly active home schooling association?

acs - also adding that nothing was offensive in your post. I respect everyones opinions here and welcome the different points of view. I think thats whats so unique about this site...we are all able to actually *hear* beyond our own opinions. I honestly feel like the experiences and opinions from all of you are worth their weight in gold.

No, I think that one is in Chicago. The Uni High I went to is in Champaign-Urbana (near the U of I campus). We got to use the U of I computer lab and gym. Some of the kids were taking classes at the U.

Classes were taught in a lecture style, like university classes. Exams were written in blue books. The curriculum was compacted and accelerated. I went there for three years until my family moved to another state.

I started my junior year in a public high school in Washington state. After going to Uni, I really didn't fit in! They put me in Physics, Calculus, 4th yr. German, AP Lit and AP History that year. Then there was nothing left for me to take as a senior. So I took wood shop, photography, metal shop, driver's ed, Washington State history (a class for 9th graders), choir and I read German novels to myself in 4th yr German (again). I also joined the swim team. Even though I didn't make any true friends at my new school, I still had that self-esteem boost from going to Uni. I knew that there were people like me "out there" and that I would find them when I went to college. Just knowing that helped a lot!

Acs -
are the tests NWEA's MAP or is there another self adjusting test out there? I think these tests have a lot of potential, and hope that NCLB adopts some kind of "adaptive" testing. Would you be so kind as to start another thread about the standardised testing. I'd like to hear the pro's and the con's.

Acs - I'm really happy for your son. 1/3 of each day in a gifted pull out and subject acceleration! That is wonderful. Our public school district abolished their gifted program, subject acceleration is very rare and disorganized, and has adopted the "we've got handfuls of kids with test scores just like your son" approach. Believe me, I would be tearing out my hair if my neighbors were giving up on a public school system that was as amazing as yours also. Basically I hate when people predujudge Anything. I reccomend you and Dottie start writing letters to the editor on a weekly basis. I will caution you that in our town the perception was "If your kid is special needs or gifted everything is peachy, but the ones in the middle really suffer."

Shrugs and More Shrugs,
Trinity