Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion 4 year old moving too fast through piano books

Yesterday the owner of the music school my sons attend was present during DS4 piano lesson. She was shocked how well he was playing and she was also shocked how close he was to the end of his current piano book.

She has been teaching piano for 15 years and she too voiced the opinion I've heard many times before but decided to ignore till yesterday. According to the many piano teachers who have met DS4 he has the ability to become a great pianist, something I think neither he nor I are ready for, but that's besides the point.

To me he is a HG+ kid which gives him a big advantage in music right now. He can read the notes. He understands the rhythm. He can pay attention really well IF he wants to. He has a mother who makes him practice Oh and he started playing at 4 as opposed to 6 or later like everybody else, but then a few years ago I didn't think DYS6 was DYS kid either.

The owner pulled me aside to discuss the situation. She doesn't want DS4 to move to the next level. Mind you he is 2 or 3 songs away from the end of his current book.

She got upset with DS4 regular teacher (who wasn't there yesterday) for letting DS4 move too fast through the books. She brought him nursery songs written in a very simplistic way. She used "slow him down" way too often. She made some arguments about not skipping basic concepts. She got upset with the teacher for not using the theory book with him. If he did DS4 wouldn't be so far ahead.

The problem is that I know nothing about piano. I don't know what's good or bad for him. I would be upset if somebody suggested that about math but perhaps she is right.

I explained to her that our kids are not what one would consider ND kids. That DS4 started reading at the age of 2. I also told her that if somebody used the words slow down as a reference to my oldest math I would strongly disagree. I said that what she gave him to play yesterday was too easy for him. I don't want him to be bored.

I have no idea what's the right thing to do. Of course I don't want to mess him up, but I also don't want him to perfect every single song. One perfectionist in the family is good enough. Thank you very much. Just for the record I don't want him to be a professional pianist either.

Of course now I know exactly what I should have asked her
- How many children like him have you taught?
- If he were 6.5 would you still say he was moving too fast?
If not then forget about it and let him move along. He doesn't have the 6 year old maturity, but I think he has the 6 year old mental capability.

I will have the opportunity to talk to her next week. She said she would be present for the next lesson to talk to his regular teacher, who is now in trouble thanks to all this

Chances are we will look for a private teacher since I am tired of all the substitute teachers my kids have had. I want a consistency and more flexibility.

Any inside on this? Do I let him move onto the next level? Do I try to slow him down just because he is 4? Is there any harm in moving "too fast"? I want him reasonably challenged. I don't want him bored but I don't want him to be frustrated either.

This part of your post bothers me, and I promise my response is not meant to be ugly.

When a child is good at something, and it sounds like your child is great at piano, you need to allow him to continue to grow that talent. If you don't, the piano playing will become boring and eventually stop. And whether or not that talent becomes his profession years down the line, the lessons, discipline, determination, his talent, etc, will teach him many useful skills when he is an adult.

If he perfects every single song, the first time he plays it, that doesn't make him a perfectionist. It makes him a musical phenom. If it doesn't take him long to perfect or learn a song, then he just has an amazing talent. And you've said he can read notes, which in itself is a gift. Not many people who play instruments can.

If he cries and screams and kicks the piano or himself IF he doesn't get song the first or second time he attempts to play, or he threatens to quit playing if he doesn't get through a song or lesson, then you have a perfectionist on your hands. If he refuses to do anything he's NOT good at because he might fail, then he is probably a perfectionist. As a parent, you need to give him opportunities to learn that he will not be so great in other areas and that it is ok not to be, but allowing him to master the piano or something he is good at will not make him a perfectionist.

And personally, if he loves the piano, and he's good at it, I'm not sure why you wouldn't want him to be a professional pianist or at least encourage him to continue to play and move on to the next level. Being a doctor, scientist, lawyer, etc, or making a 6 figure income is great, but what good is that job if you're not happy?

I'm extremely discouraged by any school or teacher wanting to slow a kid down that obviously can excel in any subject, whether it be math or music. And with music, there will be a time and a place to teach music theory and concepts, which are quite boring, especially for a child. If he was my DS, I'd find another teacher/school.

Good luck!

First I would always suggest private piano lessons over some music school. In a music school the main goal is not to teach music it is to make money... they have every incentive to slow things down.

The other reality of playing the piano is that some kids have trouble with the basics and others don't... don't be surprised if your son hits a wall at some point and you don't see rapid progression, its possible that he will hit that wall and then only progress at a more modest pace... The only things that really need to be focused on early on are how they are holding their hands and whether they are actually playing what they see or just playing by ear (which is sometimes easy for some people when they start but which will cause problems later).


As for the speed he is moving through the books... there is no right or wrong speed. He should be moving from one lesson to the next based on when he has mastered the lesson he is on... also don't be surprised if the teacher jumps around in the book. A good teacher will not just go through a book from start to finish as it is laid out because every student is different and it often makes more sense to move in a different order than what is laid out in a book (especially true once you get past the basics).

Dear LMom,

Your instincts about getting a new teacher are right. It sounds as though there is an internal power struggle in the music school (it's ridiculous that his regular teacher is in trouble for teaching a child the way she sees fit!)--there are control freaks everywhere, and you found one.

I taught music for years and years (I have three music degrees), and you take the student where you find them, period. There is nothing wrong with spending a few weeks (or longer with an older child) on some repertoire to polish it to perfection, if the child wants to, but you have to balance that with having some variety and moving through repertoire relatively quickly, too, especially with such a young child! It needs to stay fun, first and foremost, and if the pieces bore him, well bye-bye interest in music, which would be really sad.

Interview some prospective teachers now; a lot of studio teachers will be starting to book their fall schedules at this time of the year. You're looking for someone flexible, without a lot of "studio policies" about repertoire/curriculum. Don't let someone take the joy out of it for him, because that's the bottom line, no matter what the future holds.

peace
minnie

We've had some of these kind of issues. My 8 year old started piano at age 5.

When the teacher says he's moving too fast, does she think he is starting to play songs note wise that maybe he isn't ready for technique wise? We had an issue where a teacher let us move TOO fast. My son can learn notes and songs very quickly, but the technique of playing it well with lifts, tall fingers, dynamics etc take a little longer. We had to switch to a pickier teacher. Our "pickier" teacher doesn't demand perfection by any means. But if DS is going to play a song that is usually played by kids several year older, he is going to learn to play it as well as them. If the teacher just wants him to slow down because she wants to pigeon hole him with the rest of the 4 year olds, that's ridiculous. And I would find a new teacher. We've had 3 piano teachers. All 3 absolutely LOVED teaching DS because he learned so quickly and had no interest in slowing him down at all!

A nice compromise we have with our teacher is we have "sight reading" songs where we just read the songs for notes. Then we have technique songs that we really work on and try to prepare for performance. Even though you don't envision your child as a pianist as a career (I don't either - but it's his choice!), if they are going to continue on in piano to get more difficult songs the technique really does have to be there.

I also agree with whoever said that eventually most kids do hit a wall where they start to move at a more modest speed. Beginning music is usually very easy for these GT kids.

Good luck finding a new teacher! It helps to observe the teacher and talk to other families of students. I had a frank discussion with our latest teacher about our GT issues that helped lay the groundwork for a good relationship as well.

I also agree with some of the previous posts--Do not allow them to slow him down just because of his age. It is just like them telling you to slow down DS6 in math because of his age.

If your DS4 loves the piano and is good at it I say that you should find a private teacher that is willing to work with him and continue to teach as his pace. A pace that keeps him excited and interested. A good teacher will also take the time to work on the technique and theory while the child is continuing to learn new songs. We had a wonderful piano teacher for DS6 who knew he was GT and never once told him that he was too young for anything.

That being said, my DS6 was playing piano and recently quit. Not because it was moving too slow or too fast--he truly just did not want to practice since the songs and techniques were getting progressively harder. He was no longer able to play each piece perfectly after one or two tries. He actually had to work hard and practice. This was something that he was not willing to do at 6 years old and I feel this is more his personality and perfectionism.

He has actually told me from day 1 that his real desire is to play trumpet and agreed to learn piano since I told him he had to wait until he was 9 or 10 for a brass instrument. The piano was a compromise and although he was good at it he knew it was just a stepping stone to the trumpet. When and if he asks to learn trumpet in a few years I will be more than willingly to accomodate this request.

Thank you so much for your replies. I know about a few piano teachers my friends like so I will start there.


Kimck

I don't think she had problems with how played the songs yesterday. At least she didn't correct any of those things. It might have been one of her concerns but she didn't mention that.


JJMom,

I was specifically asked if I wanted him to perfect every single piece or if I would let him move on without that. There is a good enough rule in our house. I don't think this is the time or place to perfect every single piece he comes across. He is four after all.

Sure, let the teacher ask more from him than he would expect from a regular student going through the same book, but don't make him to play piece over and over till it's absolutely perfect.

There is a point when DS4 feels the piece is good enough and is happy with the way he plays it. Majority of the time his teacher is happy with that as well and lets him move on. I am not a music professional but this to me looks like a good balance. Sure if he decides to perform in the recital they asked him to do yesterday, I expect him to polish the piece as much as possible.

I understand that he may be able to learn every piece perfectly without becoming perfectionist. Unfortunately I also know way too well how perfectionism looks like. I don't want him to get a message that the only way to play is to be absolutely perfect. I don't expect DS6 (PG in math) not to make any silly math mistakes either. I would rather they have fun and enjoy what they are doing.

You may want to find a college student who is 1st chair who will teach your child. Minniemarx made this suggestion. If DS is really a prodigy, then he will then find other avenues via a high caliber teacher once the teacher exhausts his or her ability to teach him.

Mr W sits spellbound when we take him to the piano store and put him in front of a player piano or a really good pianist.

We're not a very musical family, and I am so impressed with young kids who exhibit ability like this! What a wonderful gift to have.

To play devils advocate our oldest 1st violin teacher did let us move too fast. She didn't develop sloppy techniques. With that said, I don't think teacher #2's goal has ever been to slow her down. But we do a great mix now in each lesson/practice. We do these random note reading books... image reading paragraphs of random words that don't make sentences. It stengthens her true sense of quarter notes, C#, extra.. And we pick up new and more challenging warm up scales, finger board practices, and she is much harder on our DD about technique. Which I love because when she say "good job" or "excellent" it means something specific to her - not her compared to a pile of kids her age.

We are still whizing along - but the expectation bar is set appropriately. I do second the comment about private lessons. Groups lessons did wonders for the qualtiy of practice because she was kindly placed in a group with kids who started several years before DD - and because those kids play traditional suzuki - it took a week to get all our "read" songs down to memory. But I don't know how your lessons go - but ours are just geared for her. Plus violin is not very forgiving.

I'm a believer in research it, get opinions, then trust your gut. There may be some nuggets of what the teacher is saying that make sense - nuggets. Maybe poorly communicated nuggets - which can help shape what you look for in a situation that can really inspire.

And for what it is worth to prior posts, I think the "perfect" view can be appropriate or inappropriate depending on the child and the family motivation behind music instructor. For dd5, it is a way to express her creative self. It is a passion to make a joyful noise. And we embrace that for her, for her as a middle child. For dd7, we let her follow her sister's path for different reasons. She needs to develop a work ethic. We want her to learn that to be perfect or excellent at something it can take work. You all know what I mean more than anyone! For now everything she wants to do or do good at - she just "does". Some point in her life she may have a dream or desire and it may not come so easy... she panics at making mistakes so she may just throw in the towel than work at "it". With a bar set very high in violin, mistakes will happen. We hope years from now she'll carry with her the experience of messing up in performance or practice and surviving, and making it right. Lot of words to say - perfectionism can go either way. We struggle with it - so rightly or wrongly we are attacking it head on and hoping to force the discomfort of imperfection in order to develop work ethics.

Yikes, anyone else realizing how long this post is - may simply be a reaction to my avoiding laundry?