Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Should we have another assessment?

Hi Squirt,
It does sound like you are wanting more answers and help for him, which is clearly understandable. My thought is that it may be helpful to have him evaluated for Aspergers. I know that you say that there are not any that are experienced with gifted children separate from gifted AS kids, but even those experienced with AS should be able to tell if he meets the criteria for diagnosis or not. Also, most with AS are gifted or advanced...but it obviously doesn't always go the other way. Forgive me if I am repeating myself because I may have mentioned this to you before, but I would just see who your pediatrician recommends for assessing possible spectrum disorders. I am sure they have someone that they go through as this is not an uncommon disorder by any means.

My thoughts on going through the expert is that is a lot of time, money, etc. It could be helpful, but possibly not necessary if you already think you know what it is. If you get an evaluator who has worked with AS kids, they should know the difference. Once you get it, you get it. And even before I knew about gifted children I would still see kids that were quite smart and quirky with clear social issues, but that I was not comfortable diagnosing with AS. But if they met the criteria they were still able to receive a diagnosis of PDD-NOS, and receive counseling services and support to work on those social skills that were needed. And in evaluating for AS, the testing scores may be somewhat helpful, but I can't see how reassessing thorough IQ or achievement tests would at all be helpful in an evaluation. It sounds completely unneccesary IMPHO (I added professional, you like that? LOL).

Thanks all for your feedback. I'll try to address all your thoughts but it may take a couple of posts.The current school doesn't offer any testing (it's a private school and doesn't have to). His school last year refused to do any testing because he was not below grade level in anything. He had the speech-language eval through an independent speech pathologist and she used the Clinical Evaluation of Language Fundamentals (CELF-4), Test of Auditory Processing Skills (TAPS-3), Test of Pragmatic Language (TOPL-2, where he showed the weakest score, 86, with 18 Percentile rank), and Listening Comprehension. My DH and I filled out the Listening Inventory which is the behavioral observation rating and the Children's Auditory Performance Scale (CHAPS). We rated him in the "at risk" range in every category (frustrated parents or true insight?). Are either of these like the CSLI?

I talked to a couple of local people who diagnose Aspergers (recommended by the speech pathologist). Both of them do the full WISC and WIAT anyway. If I'm going to have to pay someone to do those, I might as well do the travel and have Dr. Amend do it.


Someone asked these questions:
How is your child athleticly? about average, he's tall and leggy and somewhat awkward but seems to have been helped by karate
Is he clumbsy, bumps into things no ?
Does he understand when someone is joking or does he think they are being mean sometimes he understands joking; sometimes he thinks people are being mean but more often he thinks they're being "unfair" ?
Did he teach himself how to read I started teaching him to read at about 3 3/4 yo because he was in tears because he didn't know what the words meant. I bought a book "Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons" and he had the concept after about 20 lessons. We still went through the book but he really could have done it on his own. I guess that means no but I think he could have. ?
How is he socially, does he make friends he dosen't make friends and has trouble fitting in with agemates (like at soccer or baseball), he makes up these long complex games that others can't follow, he seems to mostly be on the "outside" ?

And, you're right, Neato, my gut has bothered me with this for a long time. I guess one option would be to wait until we move and see if the new school district will do any of this testing. I'm guessing they won't but I will check. The thing about seeing Dr. Amend that appeals to me is that it's like "one-stop shopping". Maybe he could clear up a whole bunch of things and we wouldn't have to go here and there and hither and yon for this testing and that testing.

I'm rambling now and don't think I'm getting anywhere. My DH did agree to call Dr. Amend and talk to him to get a better understanding of why an assessment might be a good idea. Maybe that's a start and then we send him all our information and do the telephone consult and then decide. I got a book yesterday at the library about Asperger's, so maybe that will help me understand it and what the treatment or modifications are. I'll mull it over some more. More comments and thoughts are welcome. And, thanks, again.

Please, please look up resources for gifted aspergers. I know that many kids with aspergers are above average IQ but there is definately a difference of symptoms with gifted aspergers. We spent two years saying no, she doesn't have aspergers until we read about the differences. Then the light bulb really went on and we had our DD tested. Same thing with family until they read up on the different presentations.

Sorry, I know I'm repeating myself again.

Do you have any resources for gifted aspergers? I haven't come across anything that deals with it except the book "Misdiagnosis and Dual Diagnosis". Thanks, and you're not repeating yourself. Even if you were, it's worth repeating.

I would suggest you spend a little time with a search engine and then calling places about getting an ASD assessment. I put in Texas Autism Programs in Google and got back The University of Texas Autism Program and a bunch of private resources.

There are several checklist type screening assessments for ASD that any good psychologist or neuropsych can give you that will help you discern whether additional ASD assessment might be helpful.

I guess it's not clear to me (I'm new though so perhaps you've made it clear in the past) what exactly you are wanting. Help to make an appropriate school placement? Qualification for special ed? Speech/language services paid for by the school? Support for your family as you struggle to cope with behavioral issues? What you want/need will help drive your process.

AS for the school district where you live refusing to assess your son, that is ... well the nice word would be manure. If there is a suspected disability (in this case speech/language) then IDEA requires that they assess him, even if he's in private school and even if he's getting OK grades. If you request an assessment in writing, listing your concerns, they must either offer a plan for assessment or give you a written response detailing their reasons for declining to assess. You then have the option to challenge their decision if they refuse.

That said, asking your pediatrician for an ASD assessment referral would also be appropriate. As others have said, it is not unusual for children on the spectrum to have normal to gifted IQ's.

I feel fairly certain that you can find a good assessment in Texas. Whether you will have to pay privately is hard to say. I f it were me, I'd start with the pediatrician and then consider the school.

Good luck,

Patricia

I have linked this before:
http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/eric/fact/asperger.pdf
and I still like it because of the comparison tables. It also has the diagnosis criteria listed for asperger's.

This is a good article:
http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10167.aspx
It also has a good table, the set up for it is a little more clear than the above article. It goes through the individual criteria and distinctions between ordinary gifted and gifted children with asperger's. It goes into sensory issues, and lists a ton of good references that were used to compile it.

I will pull out my file and look for more.

The test of pragmatic language (TOPL-2)gives situations and asks the participant what their response would be. It is shown to be a good starting point in differentiating pragmatic language problems in children with ASD's. The PLSI is an inventory of pragmatic language skills that is scored on a scale system by parents, teachers, and those familiar with your child. It determines what skills the child actually demonstrates. My DD9 may know what she should do or what the response should be in the sense that she was taught those things but she does not apply them to herself, she doesn't demonstrate those skills.

What were you told about your sons score on the TOPL-2? I can't find the reference table.

I think you need to stop trying to prove to the world that he is gifted and needs to be in a gifted program.

IF as you believe he has Aspergers then you should focus on that first. I would suggest you accept that Aspergers and gifted are not related. Assume the Aspergers is like bad eyesight... you wouldn't run around trying to find a gifted test that he could pass with poor eyesight you would start by getting him glasses. Get him help with the Aspergers and then worry about the rest.

What you've been saying and describing would make me think he has Aspergers... maybe not as severe as some but enough that it is causing some problems.

As for traveling and paying 160/hour for a 8 hour test... well frankly I think they are just trying to make a bit more profit from you than they should. Any decent child psychologist should be able to recognize Aspergers and it shouldn't take 8 hours and 2 days of testing to do it.

Well, I know for a fact that Dr. Amend is so busy that he could easily turn away clients and suffer no ill effects to his business, so I feel very confident in saying that his interaction with Squirt is not some money-making scheme on his part.

Dr. Amend is VERY well-respected--a leader in the field of GT testing and counseling. He is just about the furthest thing from a snake-oil salesman that you're going to find!

I agree that it's possible that Dr. Amend could be more expert than is called for in this case, especially given the distance involved. (I don't have any idea if he *is* more than what's needed or not, but I can see that it might be possible.) But please, DrH, don't make sweeping negative judgements about a specific professional without having some idea who he is and what he does. I hate to see a good person's reputation smeared unfairly...

Melmichigan,

I sent you a pm about his scores.

Kriston, well put.