Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy philosophical question (another)

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i'd say: Acceleration isn't rewarding misbehavior; it's putting the child where his/her talents justify her/him to be. Critical adult, please imagine yourself spending 6 hrs. a day in a group of people who talk and think about things you left behind when you were 15. Please imagine spending 6 hrs. a day doing simple spelling words, simple math, etc., things you achieved years ago. Now, imagine you are told that you must be content and happy with this, that you must desire the company of people who call you weird because you're different. Yes, we must emotionally mature and do things we might not want to do...but there are still plenty of these challenges when we're placed according to our abilities, not someone else's. Well, that's my 2 cents. Thanks.

DH and I were just talking about this one. I think there is some amount of wisdom in this, but it would seem to me there would be better ways of getting this across to kids than making them endure endless below-level boredom. I would like to hear a good response for this one too.

How about, "I completely agree! That's why we make him clean his room and do his chores. But teaching him that school is something to endure rather than a place to learn things doesn't seem like a particularly good strategy for teaching this value."

(But be sure to do it without the snide tone that creeps into my posts when I respond to idiotic remarks like these!)

Ahhhh! Now i see the problem. I don't make him do chores or clean his room! I'll have to work on that, because i do like your answer.

I have 3 kids that hate math. Regardless of this, they have to go to math class everyday. For DS6, his "math" is Karate. He wanted to take it, but when he found out that everyone else was better than him (he's not terribly coordinated)he wanted to quit. It has helped him understand that although he is amazing at many things, others have strengths where he doesn't. It's the first time in his life that his intellect doesn't help much.

It was a rude awakening for him, but it has taught him that not everything comes easy. Now that he knows I'm not going to let him quit, he has begun to put forth some effort and is enjoying the classes.

I like your answer, Kriston. Well put.

Sometimes a compliment to the other person's child will help. 'You child is so good at setting up challenges for himeslf, that was harder from my son to do in his old classroom.'

or make a joke -
'Well, at least when DS12 is with the older kids, I don't have to worry about him telling them where babies come from or about Santa. It's such a relief.'

or philosophy -
'I'm sure you are correct, I think that deep inside we each know what is best for our own child, don't you? Isn't it beautiful how individual they each are.....' ((cue New Age Music))

The trick is to assume that the other parent is NOT out to get you, and if you have evidence to the contrary, why are you talking to them in the first place?

Of course, you could always raise one eyebrow and say: 'I bet you could, if you had to.' and act all mysterious before you change the subject.

Or - revert to athority 'The principle (judge, police chief, minister, psychologist, learning specialist) said this was for the best.' with a little tilt of your head and wide open eyes.

My favorite - 'I really wanted him to have the same chance as everyone else to learn how to learn, ya'know?'

Smiles,
Girnity

I think the real secret is that no matter which response you choose--and any of those are good!--you have to have the courage of your convictions.

Are you pushing? No? Then you know better than the other person. Own that. It's more than just not caring; it's trusting yourself to be right, to know that you know your child better than some random acquaintance. Trust that.

Also remembering that what you're dealing with is probably someone threatened by your child's success can help. I find myself being a lot less threatened when I realize that I'm looking at someone who is practicing "competitive parenting." I detest that, and when faced with it, I have two options: play or don't play. If you get defensive, you're playing. You don't have to. You can opt out.

Sometimes a simple, "Huh. <pause> So how about the weather today?" is enough to derail the haters. If you're not threatened, how can they keep it up?

Remember, it takes two to dance that particular little tango! Refuse to dance!

All great advice but in the heat of the moment sometimes emotions just get in the way and sometimes people are not that fast on their feet with the response.

I think it just takes practice. There has been many a time when I have a great come back but this is of course 10 minutes after the conversation is done. And let's face it I am one of those emotional ones. One of my downfalls, so I really fear my future exchanges with school officials.

That's why I say don't feel like you have to have a great comeback. I mean, prep one if you can now, of course, but realize that you don't have to play that game at all.

If you're confident you don't have to think fast!

This reminds me of an RV I saw with a VW bug hitched to the back. The RV's license plates: I pull. The VW's plates: I push.

master of none - your questions get my bp up. lol

I agree there can be different ways to answer, depending on who you are talking with and how you are feeling that day - deflect with humor, offer genunine information, etc., etc.

In other areas of life where people have made clueless remarks, assumptions or comments, I've found my DH's advice to be just plain indispensible:

"Why do you expect them to understand? They won't; they can't. Just let it go."

Having said that, I will also humbly submit that immediately saying, "yes, I agree" sets a good tone, like others have suggested, and then not saying anything more can really work well. Just let it drop (unless, of course, you are speaking with a school and need to advocate).

I'm certainly glad Barack Obama's mother was concerned with keeping him challenged, but it might be too political an answer. This was an interesting article about Obama's mother and I pulled out a couple parts that fit with our discussion.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1729524-1,00.html

Ann was herself clearly gifted and highly motivated as was her father. She hung out with very smart people, too. It is not clear how much pressure she put on BO versus how much came from him. She also had her own interests and no doubt BO had to be on his own from time to time - and in a foreign culture. Their early pictures together reveal BO to be a very precocious kid. Its interesting to speculate between the lines of her life and the photos and comments from friends, both in the Press and what can be found from careful searching.

BO is certainly a Gladwellian Outlier as is Palin. Both possess enormous native intelligence and iron will, and both took advantage of unique opportunities at all steps in their lives. Both have formidable, successful spouses and a strong family life and supportive parents who pushed them and then did not stand in the way.

I'm reading Outliers and keep thinking about it in relation to the Cradles of Eminence book. BO and Palin would be good additions for the next edition. It's too bad Ann didn't get to finish her memoirs because the little I know about her story is fascinating.

Didn't read other replies so hope I don't repeat...

Kids need to learn that they have to do things they don't want to. True, and that is why my kid has to do chores and things at home...but kid's don't actually learn when they do things they don't need to.

If they move ahead, they are going to miss something and it will cause problems (make them fail) later. If they stay behind, they are going to miss something and it will cause problems (social/emotional) later.

Children who are ahead, need to learn to work with their peers at their level. How well they can do this is an indication of their maturity. When children who are ahead work with peers at their peers level, that shows their tolerance, not their capabilities.

There is important learning in how to behave in the classroom. If we move a child up, they will learn that misbehavior gets them out of the work. I don't get that one...classrooms should have behavior plans at all levels. And children are not accelerated for misbehaving...or else there would be lots of accelerated children in schools.

(an older teacher to a younger one) Don't worry about the kids in your class that are inattentive and you can't seem to reach them. I've seen lots of them grow up to be brilliant in their careers. And I have seen a lot of them that continue to be inattentive and can't hold a job.

Somehow Martin Luther King managed to learn to work with his peers despite skipping grades.

I read the part that he skipped 9th and 12th from multiple sources. I'm not sure how the math works that he would skip 2 grades and go to college at 15. Maybe early entrance to K?


http://www.hofstra.edu/home/News/UR/ur_mlk.html

That makes sense Dottie and thanks for the explanation. I guess in today's frame of reference that would be "early entrance to Kindergarten" but it was normal back then.

Where we live the cut-off is Dec. 1st. DD is an end of Nov. so she started school at 4. So it still happens.

I hadn't realized the cutoff dates were so variable:

Aug 1 in Missouri to Dec 31 for Hawaii and Maryland

http://users.stargate.net/~cokids/kindergarten_cut-off_dates.htm

That's one of the reasons I find this nonsense that so many school systems pull about "no early entry no matter what," even when a child misses the cutoff date by mere days, to be such malarkey.

Utterly senseless bureaucracy!