Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Feeling frustrated! Advice?

Hello everyone,

I had a conference with my ds7's teacher, principal, and GT coordinator yesterday and now I am really concerned.

When I first told my son's teacher about his test scores, she suggested radical acceleration. Well, now that the principal is involved, it seems that NOTHING is going to happen instead.

No less than three times during the meeting, the principal said that we need to slow my son down. She also said (after the GT teacher said she would be willing to give ds her 5th grade packet on greek mythology per his request) that GT teacher "shouldn't teach him everything now or there won't be anything left." The principal's plan, which the teacher just went with, is to keep ds in the highest 2nd grade math and reading group just like he is now because he "has a lot to offer the group."

Is it just me or does it sound like their plan is to do precisely nothing for my son except frustrate him further? A couple of days ago, ds said he "feels like a giant fish crammed into a very tiny fish bowl" at school. I am afraid it is just going to get worse.

To her credit, the GT teacher did say she would show ds's teacher how to "do some compacting" but the first thing the teacher said to me during the meeting was that if they didn't make her class size smaller she was going to have a heart attack. That doesn't sound great to me.

Any advice on what to do next?

Thanks for reading this very, very long post.

Jeni

Jeni,

I'll leave the advice to the more seasoned of the group but I wanted to send hugs. There are several huge red flags - 1) we need to slow him down, 2) shouldn't teach him everything now or there won't be anything left, 3) he has a lot to offer the group. He's not there just to offer the group something, he's there to get something in return preferably learning and not just social skills.

If nothing happens, what are your options? Is your DS unhappy?

Dazey

Hi Dazey,

My son has been very patient but is definitely getting more and more unhappy. He is always asking when he will get to learn something new and is starting to complain about school being a "waste of time." We have a lot more years to go, so I'm a little worried.

I'm not sure what my options are. I would love to get him into a private gifted school nearby but it is EXPENSIVE! I would also like to homeschool but I am a single parent and think that might be hard to manage financially longterm(even though I do work from home currently).

I would like to make public school work but this certainly doesn't feel like a good start. Any advice on making the school help me would be very appreciated.

I second that but have a question: Is his test scores high enough to get into the Davidson Institute? b/c if they are they provide an advocate to help with these matters.

I am sure the more seasoned members will give more advice, but from a researchers perspective I could offer you this. There was an article posted on this site from a teacher's point of view. I will look for it and post it to your string, but it might benefit you to contact the author since she is a GT teacher and is speaking out specifically on exactly what you experienced. She might be able to give you some tips from the angle of a teacher on how to deal with the school.

In any case I totally feel for you and especially your son b/c he is definitely at risk and by the meeting you attended it appears that the P. is going to be no help.

Does the gifted school offer scholarships, or are you in that unenviable position of making too much to qualify for aid but not enough to actually afford the school? Just a thought...It might be worth asking about.

Any way to keep the principal out of it? I realize that's unlikely now that he's involved, but he seems to be the only one not on board.

Can you provide some independent study sorts of things for your son to do during school? If the teacher doesn't have to think about him a whole lot, she may be more willing to let him move at his own pace (again, quietly circumventing the principal).

If not, I'm thinking you might have to take this to the next level, over the principal's head. I'm no expert, so get ***LOTS*** of advice before you even THINK of going that route because it could backfire! But if the problem is the principal, and he seems pretty solidly and philosophically opposed to serving the needs of GT kids, then I don't know how you work with that. Educate him? Put the request for a grade skip in writing? Maybe?

It's a rough one, I think. I'm sorry! {{{Hugs!}}}

The link I was refering to:

http://blogs.edweek.org/teachers/unwrapping_the_gifted/

Thanks for your responses!

Katelyn's Mom: My son's scores are high enough to get into the Young Scholars Program and I just sent his application in today (thus setting myself up for a very long wait). I don't know if he'll get in or what kind of help they will offer if he does, but here's to hoping! Oh, and thanks for the link.

Kriston: The gifted school offers a half scholarship, which brings tuition down in to the mid $7000.00 range - still hugely expensive for me. As far as leaving the principal out of it, she seems to be very much a micro-manager. My son's teacher has answered my questions before with, "Well, don't tell (principal) I said this, but..." To be honest, all of the teachers seem to be afraid of her and I don't know if I can disagree with her without having to remove ds from the school - which, despite this, is supposed to be "the best in the district."

I honestly don't know what to do right now.

This brings up a topic of conversation my DH and I were having today and I just wonder if your school district fits into our questions. Is it the best b/c socieconomically there are more funding and more advanced students than the typical school district? In our area we too are in the 'best' and have come to realize that there are way more students in the gifted side than most school districts. (This is of course from parents of a 2 year old so we are on the outside looking in), but know that most students have tutoring sessions in at least one topic and most all the students are in at least one honors class.

As far as my DD I really don't know what to make of the district. Did we hit the jackpot or if she is HG+ which we suspect than will it even be a harder battle? And I am wondering if your district fits this mold and therefore the uphill battle begins.

This is definitely not the best district in the area (there are two much wealthier towns south of us whose districts are supposed to be better and are also way more crowded) but it is supposed to be the best school in our particular district. I don't think it has a higher percentage of gifted kids in it than anywhere else though.

When ds was in kindergarten in the school closest to my house, I was told to take him to the school he is in now because it has a full time gifted teacher and is one of the only schools to do anything with gifted kids before third grade.

What I'm realizing though is that their gifted program doesn't really have that much to offer my son. And what it does have to offer, the GT teacher is being told not to offer to ds anyway because "there won't be anything left."

Oh, yeah, it also seems that, since they have a gifted program in place, they are less willing to believe that they aren't meeting his needs.

Sing it, sister! Great post, gratified!

Have you checked out the educational laws in your state? Many states have gifted ed mandates incorporated into their regulations for special ed. While I am generally a firm believer that you get more flies with honey than vinegar, it sounds like honey hasn't worked so far in your case. If your kid isn't get any meaningful benefit from school (i.e., learning) you may have to fight for an appropriate education, as daunting as that sounds. Perhaps you could try to find a special ed advocate to help you. Many work for a small fee or pro-bono.

Gratified: Thank you for your feisty response. It gives me some ideas on where to go next. Since the teacher seems both afraid of the principal and completely overwhelmed, I wasn't sure where to go. I was also told by the principal before this meeting that we "didn't need to involve the district because we just aren't there yet." I guess I get to decide that we actually ARE there NOW.

Jool: I am just starting to look into our state law. The GT teacher is going to write up an Advanced Learning Plan that I can look at and either sign or not sign. I won't see a copy of that until after Thanksgiving. Based on the meeting, I don't think I'll be signing it.

Jeni-

I think many schools also tend to be dismissive of single parents, moms in particular. You might consider going in to a meeting with a male friend who you can identify as an "advocate" for your child. He doesn't even have to say much, just take a few notes and look deeply concerned. It seems that the principal is just trying to intimidate you. Intimidate her back! If you have a lawyer friend, that would be even better...

Jeni,

I agree with other posters you must continue to advocate for your child. I might try reaching out to the principal one more time. Try arranging a one on one meeting. That way the principal does not have to impress any underlings during the meeting. Come armed with research and let her know firmly but in a kind way that if she cannot come up with a plan to accomodate your child that you will need to look to others within the district for help with a plan. My experience has been that most schools desparately fear losing their brightest students and if she finds that her strong arm approach to you isn't working she may relent a bit. Give her the opportunity to relent without losing face.

This surprised me. It seems like many schools are trying to drive their brightest students out. I'm interested in hearing more about your experience because it may help in my advocacy efforts.

In our district children identified as gifted can leave their local school and attend a special program at another school with other children of similar ability. There has been much discussion about principals, teachers, and other school officials trying to keep their best and brightest at home so that they can keep test scores up. There are several articles about this type of situation on the Gifted Exchange Blog. I have also heard the stories locally in our schools. The gifted centers have been referred to as "brain drains".

Jeni,

If your son's scores qualify him for DYS then that means he's probably testing at least 3 grades ahead in achievment (likely much more, right?). That would be like asking an average 5th grader to accept being in a 2nd grade math or reading class. I don't understand how a school can ignore that or think that's ok, though I know that they do. You couldn't satisfy a 5th grader in a 2nd grade class by giving a few extra projects. I mean, come on!

I've recommended a book to others privately but I'll post it here too because it has been so helpful to me. I highly recommend that you take a look at it. It's called Academic Advocacy for Gifted Children by Barbara Gilman. Bobbie is with the Gifted Development Center out of Denver, CO. You can order the book through their website at www.gifteddevelopment.com. It's really a great resource and contains more than just advocacy information.

I wish you the best. I know you are so frustrated for your son right now. The people who participate in this forum have so much experience, heart, and wisdom. You will feel very welcome here and will hopefully find a good solution for your DS.

Thanks lanfan,
That makes sense and goes with this blog entry form Unwrapping the Gifted:
http://blogs.edweek.org/teachers/unwrapping_the_gifted/2008/03/

Your statement surprised me because if schools are so interested in keeping their outstanding students, it would be reasonable to expect them to be responsive in meeting gifted learners' needs.

Hi Jeni, Welcome to the Board. If it hasn't been mentioned, you are going to need to be a real stickler for documentation - who you talked to, how many times you called before making contact, what was said, etc. I would make any and all requests to the school, particularly the principal, in writing. If you have made verbal requests, follow up in writing. If you aren't getting any response from the principal, start copying the superintendent on your requests. Make waves... Your child's education is too important to be ignored (as is your child's emotional well-being). If you don't have this already, here is a link to state by state gifted education policy: GT State Education Policy
Best of luck!

I think it depends on the kid and the teacher. My DS6 (DYS) has a second grade teacher who is very big on creative writing (e.g., making illustrated books, keeping a journal, etc.) -- Unlike other subjects, there is no limit on the challenge-level of creative writing - kids can stretch themselves as far as they want to go as long as the teacher encourages it. *I* would probably benefit from being in that class for the writing part Now with reading, the material is way under his level, but he's still learning the content (e.g., the reading materials are now discussing different world cultures). OTOH, he is woefully underchallenged in math (working on that...). So even with only 1 grade skip, he really only needs more math challenge to be engaged in his learning. If he could be pulled out for online learning or tutoring, I'd be pretty happy with how the year is going...

Yes, Jool, I completely get that. My friend's DD had a teacher who was big on creative writing too and that prevented boredom in her 1st grade year. And how wonderful that your DS is having a mostly good experience this year. I didn't mean to make too general of a statement; thanks for pointing that out. I suppose I was trying to give support for Jeni's situation and advocacy need more than I was trying to talk about all kids in general. I guess I should clarify that I realize not everyone is the same. I'm sorry!

What I meant, and what I didn't say very well, is that extra projects here and there alone, without acceleration, likely would not satisfy someone who already knows the material and has mastered the concepts in the main subjects of math and reading(I agree there are exceptions). And I guess what I also meant is that it would probably seem ridiculous to most educators to put a 5th grader in a 2nd grade class and expect him to be happy and excited about that experience. Sometimes that's effectively what's happening, though, if there's no grade skip or consistent acceleration given.

I agree Amy . Telling a kid like Jeni's DS not to move too far ahead in his learning because of a rigid curriculum is like not allowing a physically ready toddler to practice walking because the house isn't childproof. Both scenarios are based on the convenience of adults, not what's best for the kid's development...

Between this and Kriston's recommendation for the Usbourne Math Dictionary, my credit card is getting a workout this weekend. Thanks for the recommendation.

Oooh! I love that analogy! I'm totally using that, Jool! It is a *great* illustration of what is probably my biggest complaint about the whole square peg/round hole in school problem.

Thanks!

Yep, I'm using that one too!!! Perfect!!!!

Don't forget to check out "Reforming Gifted Education." In it, it has questionnaires that DC fills out over a few weeks which tells about learning style and preferences to help guide in writing a GIEP. It also goes through every form of modification there is, and pros and cons of each, giving profiles of students that would be good for each of those scenarios.