Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Not trying

Hi all,

We seem to have an issue with our DS6 in that he appears to be very unwilling to actually work at anything in order to master it.

I've been expecting him to start reading for the last year and a half, but he just doesn't seem to get there. He went through a very brief period of being interested in early readers around easter (and scooted through them), but now vehemently resists being asked to try reading - although he's very happy to when he's confident that he already knows (sight words seem to work for him much better than phonics - he prefers to just know rather than have to work anything out). He'd like to be able to ride his bike without training wheels, but doesn't want to have to practice. He discovered addition earlier in the year and was very keen of writing up sums everywhere for a fortnight. But when I tried to introduce subtraction (thinking this would be something he'd like to know about as well) he felt that his world would end if he had to have it explained to him. He won't try new play equipment at the park if other children are watching - has to master it privately first.

Has anyone else had this problem? And does anyone have any ideas as to what to do about it? I can see this tendency potentially escalating into a serious problem.

Thanks for any thoughts.
BK

G'day BK,

I can emphathise about the "not trying" factor, but so far, have come up with very few solutions. Miss 7 refused to do her spelling work in class yesterday. Apparently, she just "didn't feel like it". When pushed, cajoled, encouraged and bribed, she said "I don't need to do spelling anyway because I'm skipping year 2 and going into year 5!" This was news to all of us! So I naturally thought that we (the teacher, principal, Miss 7 and I) might come up with a goal-oriented plan to get her to demonstrate a number of proficiencies this year so that she can skip next year (although probably not into year 5!). Her response after getting a sniff that she might actually have to do some work... "nah, I reckon I'll just stay in year 2" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Short term goals work for me, but apparently not for Miss 7 *groan* So I'm interested in any advice you might receive on the subject... jojo

Hi BK and jojo,
My son, now age 12, seems to have been born like this, but as Dr. Sylvia Rimm says, on page 116 of 'Why Bright Kids Get Poor Grades:'
"Schoolwork that is too easy can cause antoher dilemma. It is a frequent cause of Underachievement Syndrome for intellectually gifted children. Some bright children who enter first grade know most of the material to be covered in that grade, and they are legitimately and consistently bored during their entire fist years of school..."

The whole book is very worth reading, and helped me guide my son to a developing a good work ethic. Basically a good work ethic requires practice, and repeated challenges that are at the child's readiness level. By the time I figured out that there was trouble at our house, DS's 'readiness level' had shrunk to the point where almost every challenge was 'too easy' OR 'daunting.'

It's been a long hard road, as everything these kids do, they seem to do with gusto, but read the book, remember to talk about what a hard worker and strong curiosity-er your child is to them, but better, to other people when they think they aren't supposed to be listening. Also - you must insist that challenge be part of their life every day - even for 15 minutes at home with you - even if they scream and kick and tantrum. Develop a family motto that talks about what your family values, and include good work ethic in that motto.

Some of these kids can make very strong arguments because they have good verbal skills, but they are still the child, and although it's ok to listen to them up to a point, you MUST maitain an independent perspective, and cut them off when they are having a 'veiled tantrum.'

I just made up the idea of a 'veiled tantrum' and it's the kind of verbal onslaught you describe, jojo, where any other kid would be kicking or crying, but your kid is leading you both down the garden path of words that don't really hang together.

I read in a dog training book that the best way to get a dog to rely on you as it's master, is to take it out into the big unknown world. For my kid, a gradeskip into a situation that was actually too hard for him was pivitol in having him look to us, his parents for leadership. jojo - you may want to consider doing that gradeskip NOW. (If it's needed.)

BK - get your son's vision checked, by a straight opthamologist, but also by a behavioral optometrist. Reading troubles in bright kids should be checked out. My son loved anything where the goals were real overt - such as gaining experience levels in a video game.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

I absolutely agree, especially the behavioral optometrist. I think is was actually Grinity that first suggested it and I didn't even know what a behavioral optometrist was. It took me a year to follow up with this for Little C after observing her. Then EandC mom was talking about it and it clicked that this could be the issue.

Just getting the glasses improved her vision, which improved her comfort reading and that also helped her confidence. Little C is like this too, she is struggling with perfectionist issues. I gently worked with her letting her know it's okay to make mistakes, etc.

Interestingly, her perfection issues cleared up quite a bit this summer....hmmmmmmmmmm.

Now she has a teacher and she says: "She really likes me mommy"! Consequently the perfectionism issues have subsided even more.

I think it's different for each child, but sometimes I think it's just so much more pronounced in children who are so self and socially aware.

Neato

I think this may be something I have to embrace. We've never pushed him, partly because it seemed setting up for trouble given an education system that's very set against early entry/acceleration, and partly because I didn't want to be one of those parents (oh dreadful hot-housers). If I was doing it again I would push.

That's what happened during his brief phase of enthusiasm for reading - he discovered the series that has reading levels marked on the back, and was full of himself for getting from Level 1 to Level 12 or so in about six weeks. And then it was over. Last week his teacher told me that some of the kids in the class are starting to read, and she's been getting them to read simple books to the class - but my boy isn't one of them. I've been wondering if he's been feeling a bit knocked off his perch, and is reacting by dropping out of the competition (as he might see it).

Okay. Hot-housing here I come. Once I figure out what it might involve. The teacher has already subtly suggested that his troubles are to do with parental pressure, so I might as well apply some.

BK

this is exactly where we were coming from, with overlays of old bible stories where the parents turn over the first-born males to the priests in my head. If I was going to send him to school then I HAD to force myself to trust them to do it THEIR way, and limit my parental responsibility to other areas of his life, like food and clothing. I think that if I hadn't been blamed for being 'different' in school, and still caried the confusion over being blamed, then I would have been able to calibrate my actions to the actual real situation in front of me better.


Go BK!
The Rimm book predicts that children who are underchallenged will behave in ways that trick everyone into thinking that the have too much pressure on them. Interesting, no?
Did you know that here are even levels and competitions for piano playing now?

Smiles,
Grinity

Oh dear. I've started reading articles and papers on underachievement and it's depressing/scaring the crap out of me (!!!!) What if a grade skip just sets Miss 7 up to fail? Josh Shaine's insider view on what underachievement looks and feels like to a child is seriously frightening...

http://www.geocities.com/josh_shaine/insideout.html

jojo

Well, as I understand it, most kids who suffer from underachievement do so because they weren't challenged early enough. So skipping 1st grade (or even 2nd or 3rd or 4th...) is relatively early intervention. Keep in mind that this ONE person's experience saw him being unchallenged and not understood by his parents or teacher for years and years! You're taking action loooooong before he saw action taken, when you can effect change. Josh wasn't skipped until 9th grade! BIG difference!

What an early grade skip can often accomplish is to help your daughter avoid many/most/all of the problems he is describing. If your DD is challenged early, she will learn to do homework, to think about things that are hard, to WORK. If she learns how to do those things, she will probably not have the sorts of problems that this man had as a child and teen.

Also, it seems like you missed his conclusion: he does not feel like a failure! He feels that the schools failed him, not that he failed. He has found that he can find meaningful work outside of school. He writes:


I think that last sentence is the most important part!

Oh. That article rather knocked away my generally flippant tone.

I prefer not to go there emotionally, but that's the great fear behind my thinking about my children's education. I've been trying to remember if there was ever a time I found school interesting, but I don't think there was. Having lived the underachiever experience I emphatically want to avoid that for my children. I agree Kriston - act early and avoid the pattern establishing.

I've told the boys to fortify themselves for the new regime - effort required on a daily basis - the joys of having to try hard, etc, etc and then some. They looked a bit bewildered, poor loves. I feel a bit bewildered myself. I really hope I'm up to it, especially tackling the education system, which I can see is going to be crucial but which I know I'm not cut out for by nature. Fortification all round.

I hear you, BKD.

I confess, that's probably the biggest reason that we're homeschooling. I just couldn't imagine all the years of advocacy we were/I was in for! It's really my nightmare, I'm afraid. I figured that if I were going to devote so much of my time and energy to my child's education, then I might as well do the teaching. Less aggravation for me. (Not that I think everyone should do what I'm doing--just my own personal way of coping...)

My son has a motto that he invented after he left public school: "hard is good." It makes me smile that he came up with that on his own!

We are having a bit of perfectionism cropping up lately, but we're dealing with it. I suspect some of that is inevitable with a kid like ours. Some of it is his personality, nature rather than nurture. But he's 7, so we can do a lot to minimize the problem. And I'd far rather deal with it now, when we can work through it and stress to him how great it is to make mistakes and learn from them, than to have him coast until he's a teen.

Yes, BKD, act early! Yes!