Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Tips for explaining the spirit of the law to 5yo

Hey folks,

I'm struggling a bit with a just-turned-5 yo who looks for loopholes in my instructions. This isn't new behaviour; she's been lawyering me since forever. But now I think she's probably old enough to understand 'letter of the law v spirit of the law' - if I could find the words to explain it well myself.

Anyone have any good links that could help me find the words to explain it clearly to a 5 year old?



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Editing to expand a bit:

I've tried searching using lots of different terms but google just keeps giving me results for kids with defiance/anger issues. DD5 isn't defiant, or angry, or unhappy. She doesn't throw tantrums, she isn't rude. She's just always looking for a way to win. She can be pedantic, she can be sweet, she can turn on the tears, whatever tool in her belt will get her the best result for that person/situation. Which is normal, of course, but by god it's tiring. Even in utero she wouldn't let me lie on my LHS, she would kick and kick until I rolled over. This girl has willpower and a drive to dominate (possibly genetic - there's a Franco general hiding in the closet). She's also honest, emotional, social, loves making people laugh, and a bunch of other good stuff, so I don't want you to get the wrong idea, but she has a very strong drive to win/dominate. I can't find the words to explain to her that we're a team and our goal is to have a happy, strong family, so we have to work together to achieve that, and trying to outwit me or look for loopholes in my instructions, just means that our team loses.

A frequently and highly-reccomended book on this forum (despite its title) is "The Manipulative Child". I believe it's this one: https://www.amazon.com/Manipulative-Child-Resilient-Resourceful-Independent/dp/0553379496 . From what I recall of the discussions around this book, you may find it quite relevant.

Thanks Platypus - found and ordered on amazon!

One thought might be to explain that your directions are necessarily brief, and that it is GOOD that she is thinking about them, as people will need to think through all sorts of directions, rules, and laws throughout life. Ask HER to think about the big picture, the little details, and the fill-in-the blanks.

1- The big picture: What do your directions mean in terms of the context of what is going on? What needs to be accomplished, in order to continue with current plans and activities? What is the purpose?

2- The little details: What do your directions mean in a very specific step-wise sense? For example, if you have taught her all the steps in washing her hands, including turning off the water and hanging up the towel, then when you say "please go wash your hands now" that includes connections to all of the steps and details which she already knows, including turning off the water and hanging up the towel.

3- Fill-in-the-blanks: What blanks does she need to fill in for herself? For example, if the towel falls on the floor it is better not to hang it back up as drying one's hands with a towel that has been on the floor defeats the purpose (big picture) of hand washing... so she would fill-in-the-blanks with other lessons you have taught her, such as: deciding to take the towel to the laundry room and hang up a fresh towel.

Given this guidance and direction for her train of thought, she may begin to stay on track and use her analysis more frequently for convincing herself of the value of your directions and monitoring herself for compliance with the spirit of your directions, instead of pressing you on potential loopholes.

She may be very proud of every instance of holding herself to this higher standard and tell you all about her thought processes and her extra efforts.

That's a great idea Indigo - to rewrite things so that she 'wins' by filling in the blanks instead of taking advantage of them.

Setting Limits for your Strong Willed Child by Mackenzie has been amazing. Mine isn't really defiant, but quite argumentative about everything. In the time it takes her to argue, she could have just DONE the thing I asked. This book has been really useful in how to rephrase requests and handle them, and also in how to see this quality in a different light

One of the difficult things I have found with gifted kiddos is their ability and desire to argue (agree with everyone else, not in a defiant way). However I also think they are just like every other kid, in that they do have to learn when it is okay to question limits, and when they need to abide by the rules EVEN IF they don't understand or agree with them. My personal rule for my son (who is just like you are describing!) is that he can question us 1x, and we will try to explain reasons behind it so he can understand, and if he continues to argue, we are not above the "because we said so" since he needs to abide by that with his teachers.

Conversely, one of the great things I've found with gifted kiddos and their ability to argue is that, once I'd given my reasons why the kiddo couldn't do what she wanted, she often proposed solutions that satisfied my requirements while still getting her what she wanted. Yes!

I wonder if maybe many gifted kiddos need to know "why" rules exist in the first place. It's not enough that there are rules, they need to understand their purpose in order to respect them.

DS8 started to challenge rules and try to find loopholes and question everything when he was about 3 years old. He would literally say "You're not the boss of me!". At that age, it was simple enough to tell him that mommy and daddy had very important responsibilities to care for him and his brother otherwise we might go to jail. At age 5, you'd obviously have to be more sophisticated than that. I would suggest trying to enlist her help. Explain that the rules and directions are for the safety and wellbeing of the family and to ensure that everything runs smoothly. And praise her when she is helpful in that regard.

And maybe you can explain that there are times when you can be flexible and other times when you can't (e.g. safety, trying to rush out the door, and so forth). And point out when you are being flexible (yes, you can read for 10 more minutes before turning out the lights) so that she sees that the rules are not overly rigid.

Though if it's the challenge of the game that she enjoys, maybe offer other games instead? Get her into riddles and wordplay and math questions?

But ultimately, it's probably healthy that she's doing this and it will fall into place sooner or later and you'll realize she's not doing it anymore.

Not quite a kiddo, but this is how I'm wired. A rule should accomplish something, and that something should be useful and not abusive. I expect her mother is wired the same, and so we parented DD accordingly. If we could not come up with a valid explanation for why a rule should be, then it wasn't.

You'd be surprised at how many nonsensical traditional rules have been passed on to you until you view them through that lens.

That doesn't mean DD always got the answer on the spot, though, because occasionally the reason was not age-appropriate. She had to trust us and accept, "We'll explain it when you're older." If she chose not to accept that as an explanation, we played the parent card. But we'd earned that trust by giving her good answers in all previous cases, and we built on that by revealing hidden answers when she reached an appropriate maturity level, all of which limited the necessity of the parent card.