Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Please help me figure DS out

I'm new here and just started this journey. Any thoughts are appreciated. Sorry it's long.

DS just turned 7 last week. He's smart and always have been. We knew from the beginning he's advanced for his age. Giftedness runs in our family and I was identified gifted as a chid. I knew he was gifted. I suspected right at the borderline like I am.

He started public school with TK. In Kindergarten he was approved grade skip to First. We opted to keep him enrolled in Kindergarten (his choice) but get sent out to First Grade ELA and we do First Grade Math at home. He is now in Second Grade. School Administration was hard to deal with. This summer we got him tested and just received the result.



His scores are higher than I had expected! Psych told me it's common to have WMI and PSI index much lower than other indexes. I'm concerned about the huge spread within index. Does this translate to being twice exceptional? We are working through issues with the "absent-minded professor" symptoms at with executive functioning, remembering to do things, slowness to do daily simple tasks. At school I worry if this translates into Learning Disability that might interfere with performing well. His penmanship is not bad but very slow. This might pose a problem in upper grades when he has to write more than a sentence or two. He's forgetting to bring things and not very organized. He makes careless mistakes with math by switching up operands, forgetting to add digits, refusing to show work, etc. Not that he doesn't know how to do it but he's careless and won't check his own work.

He's performing well at school in second grade from what his teacher told me. TK and Kinder was underperformed. He has the ability to moves fast through curriculum and I've seen it. But he says he's ok with the curriculum. But also it's just the beginning and I'm suspecting he will outpace everyone. He works really slow but teacher said he's still able to complete within the allotted time (last year he wouldn't finish work on time). His STAR Reading test shows Grade Equivalence of 5.5. His math scores are very high amongst peers (78% exit of second grade already). His concern is that he hates being the youngest in class. He got teased for it. He has just lost two of his friends in class (they moved to another school) and now he's left with no friends. He tried playing with old Kindergarten friends but got annoyed with the games they play. He's lonely. He doesn't want another grade skip and feeling even more different. I'm not sure if I need to push for more challenge. He's content of not doing extra work. I worry about underperforming and with school being too easy he won't learn how to deal with challenge when things will get harder.

I can't figure out how his numbers translates to real life and would love some help figuring it out. I don't know how to get him the best education choice based on what we know about him and need a direction on where to begin. Do I keep him where he is? Do I find another school? There's so much to figure out. The psych's report leaves me with questions. Are there any red flags I should be looking into based on his score?

Thanks in advance!

Welcome!

His VECI puts him in the DYS range, so considering applying to DYS is one practical action.

Nice reasoning scores, all in the MG to HG range.

The average CPI (WM & PS) scores may or may not correspond to a second exceptionality in and of themselves. The behaviors you report can be associated with learning differences, but I tend to be cautious about tagging them with that label in a child so young. Keeping in mind he is first grade age, with his age peers, the slow handwriting, carelessness, and executive functioning slips would be developmentally-expected (and, indeed, still are).

I would suggest, first of all, not to worry about how he will keep up in later grades. Each day has enough trouble of its own. And honestly, their needs change so rapidly from year to year, or even month to month, that it isn't a good use of your time or energy to look too far ahead.

My usual guide is that as long as my children are happy and engaged in their education (in some way), finding stimulation and enjoyable challenge somewhere in life (handwriting counts, if that's what does it for him!), and, most importantly, growing and developing as whole, loving, principled human beings, then there is no urgency to change too much.

In your case, it sounds like the real concern for him is not truly academic challenge (though I don't downplay the lack thereof), but the absence of positive peer connections. It may be that moving to a more challenging placement will put him with children who are closer to being cognitive peers (even if they are older chronologically), or it may be that he is better off finding those relationships outside of school, perhaps in an activity or special interest (academic or non-academic), a community service organization (e.g., scouting, faith community, animal shelter), sport, etc. Or it may be that some of his current classmates could become friends if he and they had the opportunity to get to know one another, perhaps through parent-scheduled playdates initially.

His test scores don't obligate him to be a person who struggles with peer relationships, or to be twice exceptional (which may be partly why you still have so many questions after reading the eval report!). They highlight many strengths, and a few personal weaknesses (though not below the general population), which may or may not have IRL significance.

Thank you for the response. We have applied and are waiting anxiously for the decision. I really hope he is accepted. Our family definitely need the support.

He is definitely still on par with grade age peers on handwriting and slips but yet still perform better academically than all. This is a good reminder for me not to get ahead of myself. Thank you.

Our plan is to leave him where he is in second grade for now. I will not be pushing for advancement at school. He loves now that second grade does social studies, health, etc.; he loves learning about new things. With math we are focusing on teaching him to show work and self-check his own work. I won't push for advanced materials unless he asks for it. I'm going to plan for next school year in a month or two and re-assess the situation.

You are correct that my real concern is peer connections. That is also my reason for looking into another environment so he can meet more kids like him. His same aged peers are not at his mental age. He likes being silly sometimes but I have seen over and over when he would tell them some cool facts and they would ignore him and talk about something else. He said even with his best friend, they only have very few things in common they can talk about. That just breaks my heart. School said he's antisocial and cannot connect to peers but this is not lack of social skills but his choice. The older kids wouldn't play with him either due to his age. He actually asked to move school because he feels no one wants to play with him at recess. It's the same at youth ministry and cub scouts. We have done playdates. He has a few friends from different places but none who can connect intellectually.

My son is a really nice kid. He's shy but when he opens up he is kind. What makes connection hard with same aged peers also is over excitability. I don't know how else to describe it but when he gets upset..he gets really upset. His best friend would do something by accident and he would insist it's on purpose and made the other child feel really bad. He is intense and very aware of things and yet can't handle the situation well. I guess this is where the asynchrony kicks in. He wants friends but said most of the kids are so annoying. I think he just want to find kids who are more like him and can understand.

It's hard to find a fit for him. It seems like he's always in between. Same aged peers are not mature enough for him sometimes but then he acts younger than his chronological age at times with tantrums and meltdowns. Academically he can do so much more challenging work but then he's not always showing what he's capable of and doesn't have the desire to do so. He is our oldest and we can't talk to anyone because it comes across as bragging sometimes. I stopped talking about him to other parents. I'm so thankful for social media nowadays. Thanks.

Welcome!
This is one thing. Finding some intellectual peers will likely address this.

This is something else, entirely, and you may wish to consider direct teaching of social skills, flexibility, and perspective taking which other kids may pick up on naturally, as if by osmosis. Here is a brief roundup of some potential resources:
- book: 100 social rules for kids (hat tip to sanne)
- direct teaching of non-verbal cues
- direct teaching of friendship
- direct teaching of perspective taking
- link to an article on the Davidson Database, Tips For Parents: Gifted Children's Friendships
- post with roundup of articles on friendship

There is actually very little of this when a kid is single-subject-accelerated (SSA), for example placed in a higher grade for math... or has one or more years of full-grade acceleration (grade-skipping).

There is a difference between tantrums and meltdowns... the information at these links may be of interest:
1) The Difference Between Tantrums and Sensory Meltdowns
2) Taming Tantrums vs Managing Meltdowns

We have had many of the same issues. My boy's giftedness was only discovered upon a neuropsych eval done in Kindergarten when he had some substantial behavioral issues. He was suspended for trying to throttle another child, and was mighty disruptive in the classroom, usually over being asked to write (he was deeply frustrated with his ability to output). His issues were severe enough to warrant an IEP, which worked well for us. We had some great teamwork with the school, and he's in a great place now, behaviorally.

We found this book to be incredibly useful- we worked from it over the period from K-2nd grade. I highly recommend giving it a try. Good luck!

https://www.amazon.com/What-When-Your-Temper-Flares/dp/1433801345

sgs, you've received great advice above... I'd just add one tiny note - the discrepancy between your ds' WMI and PSI vs his other subtests is quite large. Was the psych who evaluated him a neuropscyh or was he just tested for giftedness (ability and achievement testing only)? A neuropsych would typically include a few other tests to tease out whether or not there was a reason of significance behind the discrepancy.

I'm not a professional, I'm only a parent but fwiw, I wouldn't discount that there *might* be something behind that discrepancy that's fueling other behaviors and feelings your ds is having. I only mention that because when my 2e ds was the same age as your ds, he was having social difficulties and he seemed to be checked out in the classroom - and it was very easy for me (and others) to think the reason was all due to his obvious intellectual abilities - so it never occurred to me that there might be something that was also a challenge for him.

Best wishes,

polarbear

Wow thank you for the tips. I always to address what happened after he calms down. Seems to me he gets it when we talk about it. He would sincerely apologize to his friend about what happened. Until the next time it happens again. I will try direct teaching and be more proactive.


Please expand on this. I don't think I quite understand.

Again, thank you. I've never really thought about distinguishing. When we talk about him getting upset, he usually say he didn't want to be that way but it's just too much for him and he can't calm himself down. I guess this would be mostly meltdowns. He is very logical and can listen to reason when he wants something but can't get it. But then if the upset is too much he lose control. It's mostly tied to overwhelming feelings.

Thank you for the book suggestion. I will definitely give it a try. For us his meltdown is never physical at school thankfully. He is not disruptive in class but will shut down (usually by hiding under the table) and staying away from/ignoring everyone. Since TK it has been happening less and less. However at home anger is happening more and more. And at home there are few times where he started hitting things. He does not handle frustration well at all.

He was only tested for giftedness (ability). I needed concrete evidence I can bring back to the school if/when I need it. Last year, advocating was a mess and when I asked for early GATE testing he did not meet the criteria.

I asked the psych if I need to consider looking into LD. He said it's up to us. He is very young and it's hard to tell. There is also that financial aspect to consider. We had just done the testing out of pocket.

Someone did brought up if it could be ADHD. I'm pretty sure my husband has ADHD but he was never officially diagnosed. I do see a lot of husband's traits in our son. I know if he does have ADHD inattentive type that would explain executive functioning issues. My husband does have executive functioning issues.

Sorry to be unclear. The reason other kids don't play with a child is rarely the difference in age, per se.

Kids interact with each other when they find things in common... including intellect.

Here is a roundup of posts on acceleration, discussing pros and cons of kids being placed in a class or a grade level with older kids.