Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment input on discrepant scores

First, a disclaimer: child in question is quite bright, but not gifted. I am hoping you'll be willing to lend me some of your seasoned assessment perspectives anyway. This is mainly to satisfy my curiosity; I feel comfortable with the path we're on regarding supporting his weaknesses so he can enjoy his strengths.

Child was evaluated at 6 yo because he was MISERABLE in school. Always felt like he was a quirky kid and thought if we understood his unique strengths/weaknesses better we could help him be happier at school. First round of assessment showed strength in verbal comprehension (133/99th percentile), high average visual spatial (87th), average fluid reasoning (58th), high average working memory (79th), low average processing speed (13th). He was also diagnosed with inattentive ADHD.

Two years later, TD coordinator suggests we re-do assessment so he can be considered for TD program (his prior scores were "expired" and his CogAt scores didn't seem to reflect his ability). At the time of testing, we had started him on ADHD meds but it wasn't yet at an effective dose (we have since increased and things have improved for him beautifully!). His new scores are: GAI 127/96th percentile (she would not report his FSIQ), verbal 130/98th, visual spatial 108/70th, fluid reasoning 128/97th, working memory 110/75th, processing speed 86/18th.

I suppose I'm surprised that his visual spatial scores are so much lower (17 percentage points) and the fluid reasoning such much higher (almost 40 percentage points!). Is that strange or is it not and I just don't understand how this all works?

Also, while his working memory and processing scores seem comparable, the subscales showed a lot of variation - 2 years ago digit span and picture span were 11 and 13 respectively; this spring they were 8 and 15, with a third scale being 13. For coding and symbol search, prior scores were 11 and 3; current scores are flip-flopped, 5 and 10. Wouldn't you expect these patterns at least to be consistent?

I'm curious, and if you have any thoughts to share, I'm interested in hearing them!

Thanks!

1. GT: These scores -would- be considered gifted in language.

2. VS: This isn't really a huge drop, even though it changes him from the High Average classification to Average. It's only 9 standard score points, which would be considered within normal test-retest variation, especially after two years. The percentile changes much more rapidly near the mean than it does far away from the mean, which can make slight variations look more meaningful than they really are. I would try to avoid getting hung up on percentile changes. I will note that it is possible that his low PS had a little more impact on this index this time around, especially on BD, because the expectations for accuracy are so much lower for little ones. There are no bonus points for speed on the first few items, so slow but accurate performance would not have been penalized for time at the younger age, but may have been at the older age.

3. FR: The increase in this composite is much more interesting, and may reflect maturity/increased testability, meds taking the edge off of inattention/impulsivity (even if not at the optimal dosage), etc.

4. PS: Although I find some value in subtest profile analysis, one should remember that the index scores are more statistically robust than individual subtest scores are. Also, at the younger age, the tasks are actually different. E.g., coding involves drawing a symbol inside a shape at the younger age, and drawing a symbol under a number at the older age. There are a lot more symbol-figure pairs at the older age than there are for younger students. SS involves a single target image at the younger age, and two possible targets at the older age.

Any functional concerns with speed/volume of written output or work completion?

5. WM: As with PSI, subtest analysis should be used only with caution. (Some professionals believe it should never be used.) Although it looks very different, actually, the magnitude of the individual subtest changes is not that enormous, and the pattern of which one is stronger has not changed. I'd be interested in how he did on the three components of DS on the respective administrations, especially given the score for LNS.

Thank you for your reply, aeh, it is very helpful.


Unfortunately, I've since realized that the school will probably not accept the GAI and his FSIQ is considerably lowered due to the processing speed. He could qualify for acceleration for reading/language only in our area, based on verbal aptitude and reading achievement scores. His verbal aptitude is clearly high enough, but his reading achievement scores may not be. They need to be above the 86th percentile, and while he scored at the 91st for reading, 93rd for reading comprehension, he only scored at the 85th for broad reading because his fluency pulled it down (according to the tester this was partly due to the fact that he found the sentences funny and spent time chuckling to himself).

You seem to be quick to dismiss his abilities. I noticed his processing speed is 18th percentile and verbal 98th percentile. This makes me think of my son - and how I thought about him when he was 6.

At 6 years old, my son's processing speed was 21st percentile and verbal was upper 90's, I don't recall exactly. His FSIQ was high-average at 68th percentile. His school said he was "normal" and "typical", and didn't help other than a reading comprehension pullout.

He was miserable in school, I put him into a virtual school 2 to 3 grades accelerated. Only when I saw him doing his schoolwork did I start to notice that he was not doing well and he was diagnosed with ADHD at 7 years old.

At 8 years old, with stimulant medication, he retook the WISC. His processing speed was 50th percentile, and that pulled his GAI up to 141. His evaluator noted that he had correct answers outside of the scorable time, and we later learned his immediate release medication didn't last nearly as long as we thought - two factors that could be expected to depress the score by an unknown amount.

Because of his slow processing speed, we thought he was average but it turns out he's more in the extremely gifted group. With the results of the second WISC, he was formally grade-skip accelerated 3 grades, plus additional subject acceleration so that in 4th grade he is doing high school level work.

My first question is if he is medicated, and if yes, is his medication effective. Does he sleep well? Do you think his ADHD is well-controlled?

Does he have an IEP or 504 that adequately addresses his slow processing speed?

I would suggest the possibility that his ADHD symptoms are masking intelligence. If this is the case, his ADHD treatment needs re-evaluation. If his ADHD symptoms mask his academic abilities, this will become apparent as his symptoms abate.

My DS took the WISC IV when he was 6 and received a 132 composite for non verbal reasoning. The higher score was Block Design. Matrix reasoning was 14 or 15. A superior score, but not gifted.
The tester (wonderful woman with over 20 years in gifted education) said that it was her opinion that matrix reasoning (part of the fluid reasoning score) is vulnerable to developmental stages/factors. In other words, she expected that the matrix reasoning score would go up.
In our case, when DS took the WISC V two years later as part of a neuropsych for ADHD testing (by eight, it was apparent that he had ADHD), the matrix reasoning was at a ceiling of 19. We didn't ask for extended norms, but based on the overall fluid reasoning score (arithmetic was lower at 14), we think matrix reasoning was around 150. At age six, it in the 125 range.
So, obviously, this is personal experience, but based on the scores, the original tester obviously knew her stuff.
Also, our son's VCI decreased somewhat on the WISC V (still within the confidence interval like your DS).
My DS continues to be unmedicated (we take it month by month)--his processing scores and working memory scores remain stable in the gifted and superior range. What does change is the amount of material (calling for heavier working memory and better processing)- we are beginning to notice the strain esp. with longer reading comprehension passages.
These are just my experiences.

Oh, I think he's super smart - maybe not wicked smart like some of your kids;) but I do believe his intellectual potential is very strong. I have been worried that his limitations - ADHD, visual-motor issues affecting writing, processing speed - are not only frustrating him, but inhibiting his ability to perform to his potential and honestly masking it among other adults. I have been like a little terrier on this since he first started kindergarten and was so unhappy - seeing my smart, creative, enthusiastic little boy so miserable in a learning environment broke my heart.

I FINALLY found someone at his school who is really SEEING him - both his smarts and his limitations - and is helping me get him the supports he needs. I literally just got off the phone with her about setting up a 504 for him to get him OT services and accommodations. He is also going to receive vision therapy this summer.

At the time of the testing, I do not think the dose he was on was helping. We have since increased it and I have seen a positive change and have also gotten positive feedback from the school. He still gets distracted, but I think to a "normal 8 yo boy" degree. I wish he had been on that dose at the time of testing, but he wasn't. He has had a hard time falling asleep since we started it, but that seems to be improving.

I think the one PSI subtest that was especially low (coding) probably reflects both his difficulty writing, as well as his perfectionism. He knows his handwriting is messy and takes great pains when he's being evaluated to make it neat.