Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums GT Research Teachers' Negative Affect Toward Gifted Kids

I found this article from Gifted Child Quarterly on the web recently and thought it might be interesting to share. I can only view the abstract, unfortunately, and not the full article without playing a subscription fee. I have been tempted in the past to subscribe to Gifted Child Quarterly, and was curious if anyone else had perused their literature.

I had always wondered why the gifted teacher in DS's school was not his biggest fan, to put it mildly. She continually points out his faults and flaws, which are mainly social and behavioral, and downplays his academic strengths. She seems to expect gifted kids to be very passive, quiet learners and not the overly active little boys who need to challenge or question everything in order to learn.

Any thoughts on the subject?


http://gcq.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/52/3/217

Very interesting! I can see it. Certainly there's something subconscious going on in some teachers, and the fear of an "evil genius" or at least a child whom the teacher can't control makes as much sense as anything I can think of.

I have to think about this some more...

It would be interesting to cross-correlate the teachers' attitudes to their personality types. Can the teacher deal with new and novel situations? Or do they prefer status quo? Are they results oriented or like to follow procedures?

What is meant by anti-social? Since the teacher is the source of "order" in the room, the real threat is to the teacher's authority.

Many GT kids are natural leaders and if the teacher does not harness the leadership skills of this kid, then they will be at odds.

One of my nephews is definitely GT. Give me a group of kids and they are playing quietly, etc. Add him to the mix, and the energy level of the room just explodes. I realized that he was a natural leader and now include him in planning the days activities, and thing go MUCH smoother.

I think this is definitely on possibility. It may be as simply as an inquisitive child, who is always asking why, disturbing the perceived structure of the learning environment (as opposed to an open learning environment where questions create the structure)? Or it may be that the teachers are unfamiliar with the asynchronous development of highly gifted kids? They therefore assume that if a child is advanced in reading or math, then they should be advanced in all other areas and measure them accordingly.

What I found particularly interesting is that they could reduce this type of negative feeling towards gifted kids by educating the teachers on the characteristics of gifted kids and their learning needs!

Where do we sign our teachers up?

This doesn't explain why, even though I was a very quiet, compliant child, a few of my teachers clearly felt a lot of animosity towards me.

We all know it's a problem. We've all had some experience with this either with ourself, relative, spouse, child.

Even if the training became uniformly mandatory, the teacher most "guilty" is going to resent attentding and blow it off.

Or worse.....not even understand it and misapply what they "learn"

There's a reason why theoretically vs. realistically is a popular phrase.

What is the solution?

((shrug))


p.s. as a member of NACG I receive gifted child quarterly as well as parenting for potential.....well worth it IMNSHO

I have it. PM me with your e-mail address if you want a PDF.

Val

Thanks, 'Neato. I think I'll look into it. I've been to their web site several times, and it is probably about time that I join.

I'm too much of a theoretical/optimistic thinker, I guess. I just keep thinking that somewhere out there is a solution to gifted education. Some body of research will suddenly be found that will make everyone say "Ah ha!", and immediately support these HG+ kids. So please allow me my delusions.
At least for a few more years.

The article addresses this question precisely: it says that high ability in athletics is a form of social compliance, while high intellect is seen as a selfish endeavor involving social noncompliance.

And you're right about challenging teacher's authority. What they don't realize is that the problem would get better if Little Johnny had some stimulating work.

The article makes a lot of good points that could be useful when advocating.

Val

This is very interesting...do they speculate why this is the case? Is this culturally dependent?

They say it isn't culturally dependent, but they don't mention Asian cultures.

They talk about evolutionary psychology and speculate that the problem may be very old. For example in early hominids, high athletic ability may have conferred high status by virtue of being a better hunter. Although high intellect could have been useful when the tribe was faced with a problem needing an original solution, there could also have been suspicion that the smart ones had the ability to manipulate everyone else. I'm not completely convinced, but that's just me.

They also quote a survey of gifted and non-gifted kids. The gifted ones thought they were envied for their abilities, whereas many non-gifted people cited frustration with "social issues" of the gifted. I suspect the truth is a mixture of both, especially when I think about those common accusations of "elitism." Surely, a kid disrupting a class is not being "elitist." Also, if you harbor a malicious envy, you're not going to be terribly likely to admit it, are you? Likewise, it's hard for kids, even gifted ones, to make an objective analysis of their own behavior.

Lots of people don't behave exactly like everyone else all the time, and they aren't branded as elitist. They are just different (think: different cultural or religious backgrounds, different socioeconomic backgrounds, flower people etc.). Smart people are different too, and we are allowed to be who we are!

Again, PM me if you want a copy.

Val

.

I'm beginning to think there is a solution for HG/PG. The further into this journey we go, the more individualized education seems to be the only reasonable solution. Technology easily supports this as a realistic and viable option. Each kid is different so the level of how much IE they get is adjusted accordingly.

I don't think there is any body of research that solves the problem yet, so it's each of us on our own to figure it out with our own child. I hope that doesn't sound like a downer, I don't mean it that way.

I wouldn't have gotten this far without internet communication and all of the likeminded thought going on around here. It's taken me a while to get to a place where I can get comfortable with doing some unconventional things concerning my childrens' education. Hey, just cause it's unconventional doesn't mean it's wrong.

Coming back to the topic, I do believe there are more than a few teachers who can't stand super smart kids. Some kids aren't affected, some kids are very much harmed. I don't think there is a broad solution that can rectify it. As a parent I can't change the teacher's attitude, but I can protect my child from a harmful situation if it is occurring. Honestly, the younger the child the more aggressively I would protect them from this situation.

Ditto.

In some Asian cultures, education is considered more valuable than anything, but the actual education that goes on is very rigidly prescribed as compared to the path a Western autodidact would take. Education ( in the Eastern sense ) then becomes a form of social compliance.

So our system is too loosey-goosey, too NOT rigidly prescribed to work with teachers as a system that fosters social compliance, and therefore GT kids are "rebels?" Hmmm...Intriguing.

Certainly the people who have had the greatest negative reaction to our homeschooling in my experience are public school teachers. Most people have not been negative, of course, but of the people who *were* openly negative with me, all were public school teachers at some point in their lives.

I assumed this was because they took our move out of the schools as some sort of personal criticism. But perhaps the lack of social compliance we were demonstrating was part of it, too.

Hmmm...Interesting cultural twist! Very thought provoking!

I think they confuse warfare with hunting. Hunting takes patience, focus, deep thought, and its mostly a solitary activity involving ambush.

I also think they confuse urban cultures with hunter-gatherers. Hunter-gatherers rely on trust and knowledge sharing.

Most sports and even most of today's combative disciplines are highly structured and highly ritualistic activities that involve group activities following a set pattern where compliance is valued over individual discretion. Such group discipline allows teams to win over individuals or a collection of individuals.

David killed Goliath using his mind. But David alone of even 10 davids would have no chance against 100 davids with clubs running mindlessly at them.

Compliance may be very new from an evolutionary perspective. The American Indians were NOT compliant when they first were asked to be, nor were the Scottish, nor are the Finns today. Neanderthals were easily stronger than ANY of our well-trained athletes today and had larger brains and they were very formidable hunters and took down the largest mammals we've seen, but they are not around.

Evolution does not necessarily select for intelligence, only survival. Nor is compliance or intelligence mutually incompatible nor for that matter strength. But maybe because someone WAS weak, it was easier to make them compliant, and because they were smart, they realized they would lose and thus they survived and all this meant they had more kids.

Maybe compliance is a survival trait and the teacher is subconsciouly trying to teach it just like the teacher would not let a kid play with a knife?

Both compliance and non-compliance can be survival traits depending on the circumstances. That is an example of why we need genetic diversity. It keeps our species adaptable.

Oh I hope they did! Admitting there is a problem is the first step!

There are homeschoolers here who do it for purely academic reasons but tell the school it's for religous reasons. I with they would tell school the truth.

No one has mentioned that many (not all) Gifted Kids in school will not be able to hide their OverExcitabilities. In elememtary school age, I image that the teacher resent the extra time that it takes to deal with these OE's. Afterall, we love these kids, and we don't always like dealing with their OEs, right?

When I was growing up in my 'not-terribily-accepting-of-giftedness' family, my nickname was "PIA." I kind of liked it, because it perversely gave me permimssion to be my 'Lisa Simpson' self.


My guess is that the more direct experience you have when your very existance is actually threatened, the more fiercely you will try to teach a kid to comply- including "don't make waves" and "don't offend." Just a thought.

Grinity

Hello. I am new here. From Denmark and have 2 gifted children - both sons. I am very soon going crazy!!!
I have been making a school here in the city we live for theese children - but my sons are too old for that school.
But now I stand before a wall - for the 12 th. time, I think...
I have chosen an ordinary school for my sons because I have got a job far away at the country - and I called them before summer and explained how my sons are. But now I see/I feel at my sons they dont want to go to school - they do not find children like themselves. But here in this little country there are no possibilies - just take what they give you including all the negative feelings of humiliations..
One of my sons have a big wish to go to USA with all the possibilities for educations and work. But I want to know what you do for your gifted children in America???
Do you have schools for them? Do you have to pay for them?
What kind of schools are good? Let me know more of how far you have come in that very good country. Love Hebrony.

Hello! I'm 1/4 Danish--both of my grandfather's parents were born and raised in Denmark--so I really welcome you to the forum!

I'm not sure I'd counsel you to move to the U.S. just for the schools (in the generic sense). There are some really good schools for gifted kids here. But gifted education in general isn't in great shape in the U.S.

There are both free public and costly private schools for gifted (or GT) kids, depending upon where you go. Some public schools that aren't specifically for GT kids do a great job, and some are horrible for GT kids. It just depends on the school, the teachers, and the community.

Rather than talking in generalizations, I'd recommend that you find a specific school here that would work for your child if you're really going to move here. I mean, the state of GT education in the U.S. in general doesn't really matter to you; how one particular school will work for your child does matter! Very much!

To see an illustration of this phenomenon, you might want to take a look at this post on my blog: http://themorechild.wordpress.com/2008/12/15/more-history-7th-grade-part-5/

Hi SwitchedonMom and welcome. I just sent you a p.m. Click on the flashing envelope, or go into "My Stuff" and click on messages.

Hi switchonmom - I read your entry a few days ago. Honestly, I just about cried. I called my friend and read it to her. I hope something can be done for your DD and quick.

As the blog post title notes, this happily is "history" and took place 2 years ago. However I'm blogging about it because it was so traumatic for our family and in a sense I want it exposed. When I went down this parenting/GT path there were few resources, Hoagies was in its infancy, no blogs, no stories. People need stories and need to know the truth about what happened in that program and about the experience of parenting gifted kids in general. That's why I write.

Ah I didn't get that part!! LOL!!! How are things going for C now?

Better. How do I get the damn envelope to stop blinking?

Click on it and read the message.

Thanks for sharing. I am grateful that today there are so many resources that keep all of us connected we can manage the information we need to try and prevent more situations like this.

So, don't leave us in suspense,,,,,,,what happenend?!?!?!?!?!?!

Thanks for sharing. You have a really great blog. I've been following it for quite some time but never left a comment. I know not a polite thing to do.

I'm sorry C had to go through all that. No child should be treated this way. What does she think about it now? Does she ever bring it up? How long did it take before you pull her out? As you can tell I am trying to get ahead of your story

LOL.

I love it.

"All your requests are denied. You are an ugly idiotic retard whom we despise with every fiber of our being. However, we are willing to work with you. Please contact us to schedule your next torture session."

Now THAT made me laugh!

Did that, replied and it's still blinking. Will ignore it.

Austin: ROFLMAO!! You're killing me!!!!!!

Hmm that was happening some time ago, the non-stop blinking, but they fixed it and no one has had that issue since I don't think, until now. I'd email the site person.

I have the same issue, and when I mentioned it a while back someone else did too. One thing I wonder is whether it happens only before you get and read your first PM? I tried to send myself one, but it's too clever for that. Would you mind sending me a "test" PM, D&C?

Thanks D&C, but that made no difference. Ah well :-)

Hi,

I am a newbie here having just found this forum, which seems to have some great resources and knowledgeable posters!

I feel like I am going crazy ATM with the school situation of my DS11 HG+. The messages I have been receiving are like in the blog. He is rude, disruptive, argumentative, etc. He has been on "behaviour management" which has (as I predicted) been useless. His teacher this year wants to have him again next year, so she can "get somewhere with him" with compliance.

No educational accomodations have been put in place as he is "showing no signs of advanced ability" on the class assigned tasks. There is no G/T program. They feel there are no problems academically (he scores in top 1/4), but that he is just a selfish, rude child with (I guess) terrible parenting.

Go back 2 years, to school with soft GT program, and cluster grouping, he was doing OK. Teacher said he was a great kid, and liked him.

His current teacher dislikes him, and me, I can feel it in her conversations/emails.

Last week she screamed at him outside the classroom "Why don't you respect me!!!" at the top of her voice. He replied "I can't respect someone who doesn't like me". This sent her into a rage, and straight to the headmistress, who banned him from attending a school trip he was really looking forward to.

Now, my questions for you........I am going in to bat for him (yet again) to receive some differentiation next year, in the hope it will improve his classroom behaviour. Is there any research I can show to support the need for advanced work for a HG+ child, even though he is not coming "top of the class" ?(I have his WISC report).............do kids like this ever become "compliant"? Sometimes I just wish he would sit and not yell out answers and "inappropriate" comments in class, but he is who he is.

His GP now feels he has depression, and I can't help but think that it could be related to the whole school situation.

Homeschooling is not an option for me, as a single mum, and I really would like him to stay at this school one more year, as it is then time for HS, and I don't want 2 school moves.

Has anyone had any success in dealing with a situation such as this?

Thanks for taking the time to read,

Steph

Welcome Stephanie! Sorry you're going through this.
My DS6 is early in the schooling process so I don't have any specific advice, but I do know that others have posted similar frustrations. You are not alone.


Yes, there's lots on the davidsongifted.org website. Also, here's a link to some social/emotional issues with giftedness from the hoagies.org website: http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/social_emotional.htm

The good news is that from the successes I've read about on this board, kids are generally resilient and can survive a bad year and end up happy when the school situation improves even a little...

Hi Stephanie,
Interestingly - we were in a similar position last Spring, with DS12 (then 11) at a private school in 7th Grade where he finally got his gradeskip, and him wanting so much to return to our public school (no gifted program,but, starting in 8th grade offers Algebra I early to about 10% of the kids, and honors classes in every subject starting in the High School, which for us, starts 9th grade.

We were so worried that him starting the Middle School as a 8th grader, when everyone else had been there for 2 years already would be awful socially. We worried that everything being in transition would be 'too much.'

But, the private school, although we are so grateful to them for doing the grade skip in 5/6th grade, and although it was wonderful academically for him in 6th grade, was very difficult socially. The teachers also were very production orriented, and in 7th grade there was lots of memorization, and not so much abstract thought, and lots and lots of work to do.

So we took the plunge and let him switch back to public for 8th, and it's been a delight in a few ways -
1) Family bank account is doing the happy dance. We tried some interesting and expensive afterschool enrichment stuff.
2) We are less stressed with the extra travel to and from school
3) DS12 made a handful of friends that he is truly proud to know. They seem more open and accepting of difference than at the private school
4) Organizationally, things which were treated as 'high crimes' in the fishbowl atmousphere of the private school (forgetting to bring a pencil to class, for example) were accepted as 'normal' at the public school.
5) The material seems as 'in depth' and the projects seem as demanding, but there are less of them. I'm hoping that next year will be tougher, but it feels great to have a break.
6) The transition was actually a plus for our DS, as it gave him something interesting to figure out.

Of course your choice of schools will be different than our schools, but I want to encourage you to remember the 'standard advice' like 'no 2 building in 2 years' which is good advice for most kids, may mean absolutly nothing for our kids. If your public school is safe and reasonable, consider it. Maybe consider going straight to HS if your son is a hard worker and you don't mind him 'playing for keeps' next year.

I would also encourage you to consider his summer experiences as part of his 'living with differences' program.

I've found that as the kids get older, people are less likely to expect the kids to put up with the kind of behavior that your son and mine find 'disrespectful.' I got that blame thing too. It stinks, but I hope you aren't paying for it! I don't know if any kid like this ever becomes 'compliant' but if you can point out to your kid that they had better work hard and get the kind of job were people treat them with respect, you may be able to make lemons out of lemonade. As my son has gotten older, he is both 'more motivated' to comply and better about to 'fake it' in public. He's also gotten better at fence mending, and avoiding confrontations in the first place.

One thing I hate about private schools is when they are so small that you can't transfer away from a 'bad chemistry' teacher. I would certainly not want this teacher to have another year with your son. I would try to get him out of that situation, perhaps by transfering to public (MD might be able to write a note that it is 'medically nescessary' for your son to get out of that classroom, even if it means changing school so you don't lose whatever tuition money you are committed to paying) or by transfering to the next grade up.

I think having your MD write a note about the depression and sobbing in the head-of-school's office while showing the WISC scores is in order here.

If you don't already have SAT scores for your son, make plans for him to take the SAT or ACTs, those scores mean more to school folks than WISCs because they are so much more familiar.

Write more! we want to hear from you.
Grinity

Thanks Grinity,

You are spot on about so many things. My son says "respect" is the issue for him, as in that he is not being respected. Yes, this is a small private school, that I am paying a lot for, and as a widow I could well do without the cost. To pay for this seems unreasonable.

The MD wants to speak to the teacher, but as it is school break here ( I am in Australia), I am yet to receive a response to my email to her for her contact number. A skip straight to 8 next year would be great, but you should see his report!!! His math/english results are quite good and comments ok , but with this teacher as homeroom teacher, the rest paints him as a kid you would not want in the school, let alone to grade skip.

Your comments re getting older and perhaps easier are heartening.

Luckily my daughter is a "compliant" EG student, so is no problem at school.

Thanks for letting me know I am not alone, as sometimes it feels that way.

Steph

Grinity,

SAT sounds fab, but cos I am in Aust, we have none of this available...... he did EXPLORE 2 years ago, which is available her, but the response (he did well)....we don't take any notice of these type of tests.............the teacher does class tests!!! It seems to me that compliance=gifted= mature at school ( forgot to mention he is seen as "immature" despite the fact the testing psych for the WISC commenbted he seemes mature for his age in her report)

Steph

Hi Steph,
Sorry I don't know the detail of school in Australia, but my biggest question is: Did you sign a contract for your DS to go to back to the private school in January or February?

In otherwords, on top of everything else, do you stand to lose a pot of money?

Is the school large enough that he could go to 8th (now or next academic year - when do your kids 'rise to the next level,' around September or around January?) with a different teacher?

Good luck. Sad but not suprizing that you can't get any interst in the Explore results. What kind of tests are normally given to help kids get into college?

Do not worry about the grades and comments being an impediment to a grade skip. You probably want the skip on the grounds that the current situation isn't teaching him how to be a hard working, responsible student, and his current comments only tell you that that goal isn't likely to be met in the current situation. The Doctors concerns about Depression are serious, and a situation that can cause Depression isn't likely to teach good work habits.

You are SO not alone. So many people think that the bright kids 'have it made.' It's just not always so. Personality plays such a large role, and the giftedness fuels the personality differences.

((Hugs))
Grinity

Hi Grinity,

I only have to (in theory) give one terms notice to terminate. I did not fill in the form last year as to whether he was returning, because I am honestly at a loss to know what to do. Because even private schools here are heavily subsidised by the govt, a terms fees are not excessive.

To get into college, kids are graded here state by state, and each one differs......and some rely more heavily on school assessment than formal tests. Not possible to sit these unless you are in grade 12!!

We are on our end of year break now till end of January...then the new year starts. I have already voiced my opinion that my son should move homeroom, but the teacher is keen to "try again" with him. In any case it will be near impossible for him to avoid having her teach him for something, with 3 teachers teaching the 6/7 cohort, and only 70 kids.

How does one push for a grade skip (which would be to year 8, high school here) with an underachieving child?

Thanks again for the assistance, and Happy Christmas to all there.....we are sweltering in 32 degrees celcius heat at present (sorry don't know the farenheit equivalent)...still most of us will sit down to a hot turkey lunch on Thursday!


Stephanie

Hi Stephanie,
I would get out of that school. Some teachers are just poison for some kids. I hope your local public isn't awful or far away, but really it's time to try a new school.

Does your son have valuable friendships that he would miss? Does he want to stay at this school? These factors would give me pause, but the depression diagnosis and the screaming in the hallway are pushing me toward the other side.

You mentioned that your son is HG+. Do you have testing that you can show a prospective school. If you find someone who really understands, then they will get that:

Bad teacher comments + HG IQ scores = needs a gradeskip

After Christmas all the highest up person in the school (or their secretary) and tell them that you are very upset, and think that leaving the school is the only way for your son. If they say: 'Don't let the door hit you on the behind on the way out.' that tells you something very profound.

If they offer to talk, basically tell them that the only condition you'll say is if he returns in January in the 8th grade. The other option is to give him 8th grade work in the 7th grade AND move the offending teacher to work with another group. You can say it nicely, but do say it. You can always return to the private school for high school next year.

If you have to change schools, are their other private schools to consider? Have you looked at the public school? Another possibility is if you have someplace to leave DS during the day, or someone to leave him with, you can let him 'unschool' for 6 months. In the US there are sometimes opportunities for 11 year olds to attend community college classes with an escort.

The money you are paying for tuition - would that be enough to get a young adult to bring him to some physical activity and the library each day?

Sometimes people reject homeschooling out of hand because they don't have 6 hours a day to reproduce school at home. Homeschooling is a major amount of work, but remember that lots of times the homeschoolers start with a nice long 'vacation' from any type of Adult-directed learning in the begining. That gives time for the homeschooling parent to get up to speed. Golly - at 11 you could assign DS to read the books about homesscholing and become the expert himself and give you summaries.

Whatever you decide, we care.
Grinity

Ha. One kid I know who had a 770 SAT-M in 7th grade was rejected from a gifted program just because the teacher refused to recommend him due to "behavior issues". The only thing he did wrong was correct the teacher whenever he thought the teacher made a mistake. Which happened quite often. (And most of the time, the kid was right)

Some teachers are really threatened by a smart kid. It's sad, but it's true.

I've seen this with my 12 year old son, and it makes me really angry. Of course our school has no 'gifted program' so at least they can't hold that over his head! Luckily for my son (skipped 5th entirely, but we had to move him to a private school to get that, then he moved back to public this year for 8th) this year in 'honors' Algebra I, he has a teacher who is tickled pink that he corrects her, and is usually right. I'm so impressed with this teacher for 'being a bigger person.'

Smiles,
Grinity

Smiles here too,

My son does that.

Thanks for comments Grinity. My son scored in the top 1% of the State's Science comp, getting a HD. This is a highly respected comp, where even credits (top 30%) are highly regarded. There were only 2 HD's in the entire school. He was the only student to get one in the 6/7 section. In fact, the next highest score was a credit in the 6/7 section.

Yet, when the lunchtime extension science club was formed, he was excluded due to "behaviour" in his homeroom class. His teacher said she has seen no sign of any advanced ability in science from him in class!!

I am going to contact the head of school after Xmas break about his class placement for next year. He has made several very good friends in the class, and is not keen to move. One of them has been very vocal in "sticking up for" my son in his altercations with the homeroom teacher, even approaching the head teacher over the issue. It is a shame he will have to move from this group of friends. Funnily enough, socially he is very happy in the class.

I don't like my chances of getting a grade skip at the local public school, as this is a skip into high school. The local school head is not knowledgeable about underachieving HG kids.

Oh well, at least I have another 5 weeks of holidays to sort the whole mess out.

Thanks again,

Steph

Does High School attendence usually start in Feb for you, or would he be joining kids who had already been in high School for half a year?

It is great that he has friends. DH and I were also in a position where we had to trade friends for 'reasonable accademic fit' and at that point it was far from a sure thing. Finally I said look: We are the kind of people who believe that socally is fully as important as academic development, as in 50/50, right? So far he's done well socially and had 0% in the academic/work habit development area - so I guess that means we make the change.

Wow that was scary. And yes, the social fit at the new school didn't gel. Luck for him, he could switch back to the public system and now seems to be having a wonderful time. Part of me knew that with my DS it's a numbers game. I mean, how many 12 year olds love 'Magic the Gathering' cards, Dongeons and Dragons, frisbee,classic rock and Chess? Even though the kids at the private school were smarter on average than the kids at the public school, sheer numbers help him find kids who share similar interests. (I think)

The kids at the private school just didn't like to play his games. Sometimes it is said that 'MG is as different from PG as MG is from ND.' While this statement reveals a totally lack of understanding of statistics, there is a ring of emotional truth to it in our situation. My hope is that his friends don't mostly flee to private for high school!

I guess I would ask for the skip from every school you can find. I still think that the homeroom teacher is poison and must be avoided. Even public without the skip may be an improvement. Perhaps you can talk to a few of the friend's parents and get them to bolt with you. Witnessing the harshness of the teacher towards your son can be as or more damaging than being on the recieving end. It makes a deep impression.

I remember DS begging to go to school in 4th with a running tape recorder to document that a particular kids was taunting him when no one believed him. Nothing ever came of it. But I wonder if a few children banded together social pressure might be exerted. Still, my gut says: Why pay for this kind of experience?

Does your local public school do 'subject accelerations?' At least when you start your phone call you can mention the 'HD' and see if that opens any doors.

Best Wishes,
Grinity

Hi Stephanie,
I went back to re-read the original post, to see if the friendships could maybe justify the treatment he is getting...and I heard my internal voice chanting after each point 'hot lava' 'hot lava' hot lava....

This started out as a 'don't step on the crack game DS12 had around age 5 and was adopted while I was teaching him chess and looking for spaces to move to when a piece is threatened. I still mutter it, although happily DS doesn't. Recently I saw my young cousin doing the same thing.

Me: Does everyone in your chess club say, 'hot lava' ?
Him: No, just you aunt.
Me: Do you usually say it?
Him: No, just remembering.

So cute!

When DS was in 2nd grade, he was placed with a teacher who 'loved smart boys.' At the time we were told that he had NonVerbal learning disorder, and thought he was MG, 2E. Since we've been told that his PG, PIA. (Pain in the Extremity)
This teacher got so emotionally caught up in 'straightening this kid out' that she did convinse him that 'something was wrong with him.' Since then I've realized that even really smart kids, even kids with really loving families, will start to internalize the judgements of significant adults who are with them 6 hours a day. In your case your son is older, and has two teachers, but the fishbowl nature of some private schools does I think magnify this effect. And there is the MD's suggestion of Depression, so I think you are in 'hot lava' and need to 'move to a safer square' even if you have to give up some of the advantages.

I don't know if it will work, or be 'out of the frying pan and ito the fire' but we are delighted beyond our expectations.

One thing that the PG families say, is that if an academic situation works for 6 months, and stops working, that's a win. That's how low the expectations are for things to go well for kids in school. Now I know plenty of kids who have situations that work for them for years in a row, but I would like you to remove any self blame you might be having about 'why can't this continue to work for him?'

((Hugs))
Grinity

Thanks Grinity,

New school year for all starts next Feb.....so kids enter new grade then. My son would have to either have Year 7 (next year)in a new school, then move on to High School (Year 8) the next year, at another new school; or grade skip straight to high school (Year 8) next year.

He has lost all confidence this year in his abilities, and is scared of a grade skip. He too wants to "straighten his teacher out" next year, and thinks he can win her around and change her! They are both as stubborn as each other I say, and she will not change. Well, he won't either.

I am still not keen on 2 school changes over the next 2 years. Over the years, he has struggled socially at school at times, and takes a long time to form friendships. At the moment I am leaning towards somehow trying to home school him next year, then into high school the year after. However, I will talk to the head teacher at the current school first. The teacher in charge of "behaviour management" in the middle school has talked to my son recently (my son gets on well with him by the way), and said that he believes that "the home teacher is contributing to the situation" (hallelejah!), and he was planning to talk to her about it (he witnessed one of the recent screaming incidents at my son in the hall). So, I will give the school a chance to make some kind of move for next year.

However, the homeschool option is becoming the fallback option, as a skip to 8, although a good option, is very unlikely to occur.

Thanks

Steph

I'm praying for you, Steph, that things line up just right, and perhaps the 'behaviour management' teacher can help push for the skip at the private school as a 'least-worst' option.

Given the way the teacher and your son have 'locked' in to their positions, I feel that you MUST step in to change something.

As for the double transition, this is exactly what we worried about, and exactly what seems to be working well for our son, (so far)

There is certianly nothing wrong with homeschooling for next year.

You know, at the private school, DS in 7th was a straight B student, and when we considered the move back to public, he begged us to 'decelerate him' on the grounds that 'now that he knows what it's like to be challenged, he really really wants to be with his friends again.' and 'now that he's older, he won't act out in class due to bordom.'

We did seriously consider it. Then a few weeks later, DS did well on a few 'multi-month' projects that got handed in, and magically his academic confidence returned, and by the last few weeks of school, he was fine with 'not decelerating' and I was SO glad that I had stuck to my perspective about 'not decelerating.'

Turns out that 8th grade public school doesn't have 'multi-month' projects. Turns out that he got more mature over the summer. Right this minute, he seems to be in a place with smart 'like-minded' friends and stimulating assignments with less of a 'organizational skill building component.' Best news of all is that although next year the 2 middle schools will empty into one highschool, and be in a different building, he will already know half the kids. Further, since there are honors classes in all 5 core subjects at the high school, chances are that he is going to be seeing his lunch table group more and more during the day. ((happy dance))

Do most of the kids from your local public middle school go to one high school - or do they disperse? That might cushion the social changes, yes?

Are there active homeschool organizations near you? What will he do during the day? (You may want to start a need topic about homeschooling 8th grade)

Smiles,
Grinity

Sorry to jump in late here, I am a newbie. Reading this blog felt like I am reading DS4's future. I am horrified. He is 4 already on his way to punishments for not obeying the authority, no hitting, pushing, kicking, screaming, just not following directions and the bossy behavior thats what they say.

Steph,
How did it go?
Smiles,
Grinity

Having taught gifted students for 31 years, I have heard this statement from my students frequently. I have to remember that gifted people only make up 6% of the world population and this 6% has to deal with the other 94% who aren't gifted. Gifted people are 'wired' differently and have a strong desire/urge to learn and be challenged.
Most teachers are not taught about gifted differences. They feel threatened when a mere child knows more than they do about many topics. In many cases, the teacher is not gifted and doesn't understand the way a gifted child acts/reacts to everything.
In my opinion, only master's level teachers who are trained in gifted education should teach gifted students. It would help tremendously if the teacher was gifted, also. Gifted students should have their own schools where their academics and enrichment could be taught by understanding teachers.
That negative attitude towards gifted students would disappear, I think.
Hope this helps.

I've always hated applying the term "behavior" to children. We don't talk about adults in terms of "bad behavior" or "good behavior". I remember snapping at my principal once, saying I'd prefer to discuss my students in "terms we don't normally reserve for slaves and dogs". Got his attention.

Anyway, "behavior" (let's say "attitude" instead) is high up on the list of casualties of ordinary teachers' misunderstanding of giftedness. The idea seems to be that if a kid is that smart, they must have the brains to keep themselves in check. That's like giving a university professor a job on an assembly line and telling him that surely someone with a PhD is intelligent enough not to get bored.

We are going to see the behvour clinic at a local hospital to find out if there are any twice exceptional issues. My son at 8 does this as well. They mention that he speaks with little affectation. At home he shows a lot of emotion in his speech. i think he is just bored with them and says things in a flat voice out of aggrevation that he even has to tell them. My round peg does not fit in the square and can really care less what the teachers think. I sometimes wonder if he is doing things purposefully to drive one of them nuts( Its only in her class that the weird noises start). This just freaks her out to no end.

"That's like giving a university professor a job on an assembly line and telling him that surely someone with a PhD is intelligent enough not to get bored."

WELL STATED!

I agree with you completely. My own experience as a kid totally informs the way I choose to parent DD. I am far more patient with her OE's because I understand where it is coming from. My parents didn't so they beat me and punished me to try to "fix" me.

Love the nickname :-)

I'm sorry!

I had a similar experience.

A brief narrative description of the journal article, document, or resource. A frequent reason for teachers not making special provisions for a gifted child is that the child is "not fitting in socially." The conjecture that a psychological source of such negative affect has evolved along with human language was tested with a large sample (N = 377) of teachers in England, Scotland, and Australia who were undertaking continuing professional development (CPD) in gifted education. Quantitative indicators of teachers' subconscious feelings toward gifted children were measured using a five-dimensional semantic differential instrument. Oblique factor analysis produced a three-factor structure, namely, general characteristics of gifted children including high cognitive abilities, social misfits, and antisocial leaders. Teachers' negative affect toward gifted children concerns the potential use of high intelligence toward social noncompliance. The factor scores for teachers completing the CPD programs were lower for the social noncompliance factors and higher for the general factor compared with scores of teachers commencing the programs. (Contains 9 tables.)