Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums Pre-school Getting DS4's results today..

..This is ridiculous. I'm nervous about something that hasn't even happened yet.

Some of you may remember my posting last year about DD5 (4, then, and in PreK) because I had a lightning bulb moment that she may be gifted. She's in K now, and has been identified for testing, but she hasn't been tested yet. She's definitely at least a grade level above her peers and I know I'll have to advocate for differentiation in about a year, but luckily a.) the school is Reggio-inspired and this year in K is all play and project-based b.) She just did MAP testing so those results will help figure things out [she was bragging about how awesome she did on it too -- she loved being tested] and c.) The school from what I understand is pretty understanding about these things, whether or not she qualifies as gifted. It helps that she's only at a 1st grade level in K, and right now I'm afterschooling her in 1st grade math because she's interested. And she's not bored in K math or language arts because it's all fun.

Anyway, my DS4 got tested a few weeks ago not because we necessarily suspected he was gifted but because he's had behavioral problems and I mentioned to the testers that his dad had similar problems as a kid,was taken to a psych, and that's when my in-laws realized he was gifted. Was shocked the therapy center listened to me (it was an offhand comment and I wasn't pushing for testing), and we didn't even know he was getting the WPPSI until we walked in that day. (It's a free clinic - university training center -- so their communications aren't great).

I find out the results today. I don't know why I'm nervous. I don't really care whether or not he's gifted, but I feel like if he *is*, then advocating for him will be harder than it will be for DD5. He's not showy smart, definitely not in some sort of academic way (I know that's just a stereotype, but it's a stereotype DD5 fits). I've realized in the last year or so that he's smart as hell, but it's hard to see if you don't really know him. His problem-solving abilities are amazing, and he's really got great number sense.

So, although I really shouldn't even ask until this afternoon when I get the results back, I have to do something with my nerves, so here are my questions:

- If a gifted child seems happy at grade level and looks like they are actually fitting in with the material taught, should we leave well enough alone?
- What about enrichment, especially if the skills are more spatial sense and problem-solving? What are some options? (For the future, I mean. He's four and right now he just enjoys hanging upside down on the monkey bars). If he's gifted, he'd at least be in the pull-out program and get some enrichment at school a few days a week.
- What if he does seem like he's unhappy at grade level later on? As in, he learns differently or faster or problem solves in a different way than what he's being taught? What do you do then? How do you advocate for a kid that makes a ton of connections in his brain but doesn't necessary exhibit that ability on a test? What would I even ask for? With DD5 the major question is if we do differentiation or subject-matter acceleration, but it's something we can adjust to as necessary and I'm not asking for a grade-level skip or anything complicated. What do you ask for when there's almost a "special-needs" type component to learning but the kid isn't delayed or anything like that?

Sorry for questions that may not even be relevant, but I'm one of those people who have to have something to stress over, as my husband likes to point out!

First off, take a deep breath. Regardless of the outcome, you still have the same kid. If the scores reflect what you feel in your gut or open your eyes to something that makes sense - then great. They will likely be useful in future advocating. If the scores don't match what is in your gut, take some time and consider what they might be telling you that you've missed, use that and if there are other parts that don't seem to resonate, move on.

As for what to do with kids.... it really depends on a lot of things. An MG kid that is happy in an above average class with a good teacher that is willing/able to differentiate as needed - I probably wouldn't panic or do anything to drastic to change things. A compliant, people pleasing PG kid that is happy, well I don't know that I'd be betting on that continuing to be the case unless it is a spectacular teacher/school. Kids like that might be hesitant to show their unhappiness but often the cracks will eventually start to show if you know the signs. So much depends on the kid, LOG, personality, school fit, teacher, peers (or lack thereof), etc. Without knowing those pieces it is really hard to say.

As for your DS - my DS10 turned out to be 2e but the signs have been there his whole life (not saying your DS will be 2e, just saying I think I get what your gut is telling you about school at the moment). I knew school was going to be ummmm interesting. I didn't really get just how interesting it was until we were a couple years in but we have eventually found something that works. Honestly with him I just take it year by year. I have no idea what the future brings but I've learned to be be flexible and adjust things when needed. We do the best we can in the moment and I'm sure you will also. Exactly what that means is hard to say but there are a LOT of people here who can relate and offer more tailored advice as you run into things so know that you aren't alone.

Good luck!

JBD, it's perfectly normal to be nervous about receiving test results. I was a nervous wreck between the time that DS took his test and when we received his results a couple of weeks later. And yeah, there's that part of me that kept saying, "Hey, why am I so worked up about this?" but then I still had trouble sleeping at night about it. It was really a fun emotional roller coaster ride.

At this point, I would encourage you to take a deep breath and take one day at a time. If he seems happy at school, is fitting in, and expresses to you that he's being challenged enough, then that's great. There is no real urgent need to go out and advocate.

So, nervousness abated. His FSIQ is 112, which fits with my general view that I have a very bright boy, but he's not on the same level as his sister. I wouldn't have been surprised if he had a gifted IQ either, because he just might not present as a stereotypical gifted kid. I would, however, be surprised/shocked if his sister doesn't have a gifted IQ, given she hits all the stereotypical behavior as well as early milestones. Since siblings are often close together, though, it gives me a hint that she'd be MG at most (I know not to take any of that as gospel. Her dad is G/MG so it'd fit with family history).

The only thing that confused me about his test results is his VSI subscore: 73. Now, perhaps I don't understand VSI at all, but it just doesn't fit. And he's been evaluated for OT and I was told his fine motor skills are good to great. Is there a chance he just didn't test well in that aspect? Either way, it's not too big of a deal because I was told that likely wouldn't manifest as any learning disorders. Every other score, including processing speed, was average to high average.

Even though a misread of his VSI would lead to them miscalculating his FSIQ, it still wouldn't make a difference in terms of whether he is gifted or not, right? The highest subscore he got was 126 for verbal comprehension; everything else was in the low 100s.

Just wondering if I can just take this score for what it is and leave well enough alone, or if later I would want to test again. (If he's happy in school, I can't really see wanting to test again..the only reason it'd be on my mind is if I felt the need to do due diligence if his sister tests high).

Thanks! I just have mixed emotions from relief (well,that's settled) to a bit of confusion (VSI).

{Edit: Sorry for asking testing questions on here, btw. I don't feel comfortable posting in the testing/assessment forums given that we're not dealing with a gifted IQ over here.}

No need to apologize. First off, if you do not already have an interpretive meeting scheduled, to review the results in additional detail, I would consider asking to sit down with the examiner again for some more discussion, as there are some indicators that you are not simply looking at a generally high average child.

Beginning with his strengths: VCI in the 120s is quite respectable, and although it's not technically in the GT house, it's at least on the same block. He's also young, so it's not impossible that this score may go up in future years. This is a significant personal and normative strength, which suggests he might need some upward differentiation for language-related tasks (especially oral language).

Most of his index scores are quite age-appropriate. Normally, that is an unremarkable finding. In this case, the marked relative strength in VCI suggests that this constitutes a form of asynchrony, which may have educational and behavioral implications.

VSI is both a personal and normative weakness. It's also not only about fine motor skills, although deficits in fine motor can depress the scores. This is more about spatial reasoning and, to some extent, motor planning. Fine motor expectations are rather low in a four year old, so it is not impossible that he was able to compensate well enough with other reasoning to hit the marks. (E.g., the BOT-2, which is the go-to assessment instrument for most OTs, has norms beginning at age 4-0.) If these results are real, it is true that they might not manifest as academic difficulties (we've discussed elsewhere the situation with those on the high end of the VSI scale). However, they might be related to the behavioral challenges, since managing one's body in space, reading facial expressions/social situations, and managing attention in visually-confusing or overstimulating environments can all affect the ability of a child (especially a very small one) to maintain school-appropriate behavior. Especially if he has excellent verbal abilities, and thus tends to reach for his area of strength when overwhelmed by his area of weakness.

In summary, it is possible that he just didn't get it on the VSI tasks, and these are underestimates. He is, after all, a little boy. In that case, the FSIQ is probably slightly low, but unlikely to be 4 points low. It is also possible that these are real results, in which case there appears to be a highly uneven profile. All the comments on his VCI strength still apply either way. This may or may not have educational impacts, now or in the future. I suspect that it is somewhat more likely to have behavioral impacts. As to re-testing: if he's happy, I also lean on the side of leaving it alone. If he begins to struggle in some way (academically, behaviorally, social-emotionally), then I think there might be benefit in looking in the direction of the VSI weakness, possibly for some kind of NVLD or visual processing deficit.

You are a gem, aeh. I was hoping you'd find my question! Thank you for the detailed response. We'll keep an eye out for nvld. Honestly, he doesn't seem to fit the criteria, and his behavioral problems seem to occur only at homee.

Time to stress about dd5's map/mpg results and her upcoming wppsi (kidding, kidding).

Slight update for us: I might end up retesting him when he's older. Just in the two months since I got the results back (which seemed right to me at the time) DS has exploded in math. He's now doing two digit addition (in intuitive ways such as 32+45 is the same as 30+40 +2 +5 ) and multiplication(again, more real world..5 sets of 4 leaves means 20 leaves) all without instruction or anything from me. Just random and spontaneous. We'll see, I guess. He had just turned four the same month he took the wppsi, and I know that can skew stuff.

In reading, he's still pretty normal. He can read a little, but it's all instruction from me, not spontaneous like his sister. Then again, his sister is opposite: reading was spontaneous, math was through instruction.

It's funny, we have one of each as well. DS6 is quite strong at math but learning to read is slow. DS5 seems to need instruction for math but has learned to read spontaneously. He now reads joke books to us from bed (when he's supposed to be reading quietly, but who can complain?!).

Have you tried the Bedtime Math books with them? Our boys just love them.

Thanks for the suggestion! I just ordered the first book for Christmas. He'd love that. He asks for math problems ALL THE TIME. Always verbally. This looks great.

Today during his journal time at school he asked me to give him some math problems. (A lot of the parents stay a few extra minutes and draw/color with their kids). So his journal page was filled with two digit addition questions. I'm really glad his teachers know me and know I'm not a tiger mom, because I'm sure it looked weird to the other parents in the vicinity. As it happens, I realized quickly that he gets confused whenever I write a math problem down; not sure if that's somehow related to his low VSI score. He can answer them just fine aloud.

Also randomly found out the ability test the school uses is the SB (I'm assuming SB-5). Apparently my DD5 was tested this week, and I only found out because she mentioned something about getting pulled out of class. I asked her teacher today, who then mentioned that DD was likely talking about taking the Stanford-Binet.

( Side note: I mean, I already had given permission, but it would've been nice to know the day of! I'm still not entirely sure what transpired because it sounds like she got pulled out multiple times this week and last week, each time by the GT teacher. Whatever it was, it made her happy and she said she got to do reading and math. There's a chance the school already started GT enrichment for her. I really have no clue.).

Anyway, that alleviates some of my concerns of DS4 being retested if I do elect for GT testing next year, since the one he took at age 4.0 was the WPPSI-IV.

There is a level on which early math skills are actually more verbally-based, while early reading skills can be impacted by visual spatial skills. From that perspective, his current academic trajectory is entirely consistent with a nonverbal learning disability, and increases the likelihood that the existing test data are legitimately representative of some aspect of his cognitive profile.