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    Where angels fear to tread - what a thread!

    I do have sympathy for syoblrig's concerns. My son moved to a gifted class this year which seems to have broken down on the attitude/ parenting thing, to the point where the principal has been a regular classroom visitor, trying to teach the kids some rudiments of common decency and respect. No kid should get a free pass to be rude, or be taught they're too superior to have to abide by the rules that apply to the plebeian masses.

    but - - - But - - - BUT - - - I was waiting for sue to jump in, and I am glad she did, with her usual wonderful contribution. The OP was talking about a kid far off the norms of intensity, not *most* gifted kids. Here, as everywhere, what works for the majority fails for the extremes. As sue says, punishing a child for things they can't control, telling them to "try harder" when they are already trying as hard as they can, is unhelpful at best, destructive if we make a habit of it.

    There is a huge difference between understanding intensity as an explanation vs using it as an excuse. Whether it is a "can't" or a "won't", the behaviour is never OK, and it's important for the child to understand that the behaviour is. not. ok. The difference is in what you do about it.

    No amount of punishment or sticker chart reward is going to change a behaviour the child doesn't know how to control. It just makes them feel even more helpless, and a bad person to boot. When the behaviour is a "can't", the child needs direct, explicit teaching of the skill; sympathy and appreciation for their efforts (which is not a get out of jail card!); adult scaffolding to support not-yet skills; and the opportunity after calm returns to make restitution as best they can.

    We don't have punishments and rewards. Gave up long ago when my kids made clear that extrinsic motivators, meh. But we do celebrate our successes, large and small, in impromptu ways, and pay a lot of attention to small gains and large efforts. And we have to own up to and fix our mistakes (mine included). We ask, "how can we fix this, or at least make it better?" Hug and speak supportively to the person whose feelings or body we hurt (and doesn't matter if the hurt was intentional or oblivion, we need to learn to pay attention to our bodies, and how our words and our tone are perceived by others). Clean up the mess, redo the whatever. And we do it with help and support, to make a problem better, not to punish.

    [ok, sometimes I lose it. But this is the way I WANT it to work blush ].

    Some kids just have really, really huge, incredibly overwhelming emotions. They are experiencing the world in a different way, and can be quick as scared and appalled by their lack of control as the commenting bystanders. They - and their parents - needs to work a thousand-fold harder on building that same emotional regulation that other kids gain with age and some simple and consistent rules and correction. That's not an excuse. That's understanding the problem, so you can find relevant solutions.

    So going back to the OP, given that the child is only 6, I could even ask whether it actually matters whether he's being deliberately bad or just having a hard time managing overwhelming emotions? Either way, you want him to recognize that the behaviour was unacceptable, that he has to make restitution as much as he can, and that he has to brainstorm with you about what triggers got him to this place, and how he could change the trajectory next time. Bad behaviour, yes. But a good kid, who will keep trying to make it better, with your help.


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    Sue and Platypus101, I appreciate your input so much that it has nearly brought me to tears. That is exactly it. By no means are we trying to use it as an excuse and yes, we are all working really hard.

    To your question Platypus, I think I just find it easier to deal with when it's because he "can't", rather than when he "won't". On those occasions, I have a lot less patience for him. I know I should always remain calm, but it's not always easy. blush

    I had a heart to heart conversation with our poor darling last night and it made me really sad. His words: "I try really hard to manage my emotions and my behaviour, but it doesn't work a lot of the time. I'm an emotional type of kid. I'm not normal. It's ok, I don't want to be normal. There are normal people everywhere, but there aren't that many emotional kids. But it's really hard. One of my tricks is to try not to look back, to just think about the future." He can be so very self-aware sometimes! He really does have "really, really huge incredibly overwhelming emotions", just like his mamma.

    And add to the mix that there's usually something behind the behaviour, too. This morning, when were asking about his feelings he said: "Let me explain something. You see, it's because I don't play soccer and [his best friend] plays soccer at recess and I don't have anyone to play with except one boy who is sort of strange. He's nice, but he's strange. But he's the only one who has enough of an imagination to play made up games with me. I can't tell anyone else about these games because they would laugh and tease me." There are two reasons he won't play soccer: He feels he's not good enough, and he knows that he'll be really upset if his team loses. So he misses out on all the fun. It makes him sad and he spends a lot of time thinking about the whole thing. frown


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    Wow, what incredible amount of self awareness your DS has! That is incredible for a six year old.

    I can relate to the recess story. My son, who is 7, also does not like to play soccer. He never said it but I think your son's reason would apply in his case as well. Luckily for my son, there is a little girl in his class really plays well with him. I think they do these pretend play together at most recesses. I dread the day when the girls won't play with boys anymore.

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    Originally Posted by Platypus101
    Where angels fear to tread - what a thread!
    Indeed! I had no idea I was opening such a Pandora's box...

    Originally Posted by Platypus101
    The OP was talking about a kid far off the norms of intensity, not *most* gifted kids. Here, as everywhere, what works for the majority fails for the extremes.
    Are not many/most gifted kids this intense? I was under the impression that many/most GC have the emotional overexcitabilities.

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    Originally Posted by RRD
    Originally Posted by Platypus101
    Where angels fear to tread - what a thread!
    Indeed! I had no idea I was opening such a Pandora's box...

    Originally Posted by Platypus101
    The OP was talking about a kid far off the norms of intensity, not *most* gifted kids. Here, as everywhere, what works for the majority fails for the extremes.
    Are not many/most gifted kids this intense? I was under the impression that many/most GC have the emotional overexcitabilities.
    I would say some, rather than most. Many GC have high emotional intelligence, but not necessarily emotional OEs. (Just as there are also non-GC who have high EQs, emotional intensity, or both.)


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    Wow - that is great RRD - not that he is having trouble on the playground, but that he is so emotionally aware and articulate!

    My DS8 - I can see that he is emotionally sensitive, but he cannot articulate it - not even to tell me he is happy or sad. So he either shuts down his emotions when they get too intense (and then people think he is uncaring), or he acts out. It can be very confusing!

    He is certainly not alone with the playground issues - neither of my kids wanted to play soccer at recess. It certainly cut down on the number of kids they could play with - but they have both found other kids to interact with during breaks.

    And it can be really hard to sort out the can'ts from the won'ts. Throw in a little (ok a lot) of stubbornness (parents and kids) and oh boy - it's hard!

    When I remember - I find it's best to drop the issue (whatever it is) and come back to it when everyone is calmer.

    Given your DS's self-awareness - I'm betting things will get easier as he gets older.

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    suevv, thanks for the detailed reply. I will forward it to my friend to see if she can use any of this for her son's situation.

    OP: apologies for the thread hijack.

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    Originally Posted by ashley
    OP: apologies for the thread hijack.
    No apology needed. These are all worthwhile discussions. smile

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    Originally Posted by RRD
    So... The biggest thing lately is that DS6 seems to be having an extremely difficult time controlling all of his emotions. There are times when he almost seems to be vibrating because his emotions are so intense (especially when he is excited). He has been like this ever since we can remember.

    It's often enjoyable when his particular emotions at any given time are very positive, like when he is expressing his undying love for us (like last night, when he asked me with great loving emotion if I would be willing to die for him and then said he would be willing to die for me), or when he's excited and sharing his positive excitement.

    But if he's in a bad mood or feeling mischievous, watch out! Lately, he has been extremely mischievous and it's driving us (and poor DS4!) crazy. And he's so intense when he's doing it, and it's so obvious that he is out of control.
    RRD you've received a lot of great perspectives already from other posters. You may also find the link article below useful even though it goes well beyond the issues your DS is currently experiencing When your child's other exceptionality is emotional .

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    Originally Posted by suevv
    Originally Posted by syoblrig
    We're actually removing one of my children from our district's highly gifted program because there are so many kids in the classroom who don't behave. Their parents think their kids are precious snowflakes who shouldn't be expected to be quiet, sit in their seats or be respectful, and they literally say that to the teachers. I'm frustrated that we have to move my child, rather than the naughty children moving, but it's a losing battle. Thanks for doing your part early, to make your children good citizens.

    I have to say that the precious snowflake comment feels very judgmental. I am a parent whose child has trouble with all the things you listed. We - meaning both he AND his parents - work very hard on this. We have expectations and consequences and he probably works harder on this than most any kid in his class. He also suffers for it a ton, because he knows he fails and he wants so badly to succeed.

    Judgment doesn't help him or me as his mom...

    You'll also never hear me saying that he "doesn't have to behave because he's gifted." That's ludicrous. But he is wired differently from other kids, and you will hear me defend him against the imposition of one-size-fits-all punishment/reward strategies and the attendant condemnation from teachers and other parents when they inevitably fail.

    I'm sorry for my rant in response to your rant. But it just pushed every button for me as a mom. I'm sure you didn't mean it as a general condemnation of parents of kids (gifted or otherwise) who have behavior problems. It just sort of felt like it ....


    I'm sorry this pushed your buttons. I obviously wasn't referring to you and it sounds like you're doing your best. But I WAS being judgmental about the preciously snowflake comment. I admit it, but I was referring to a specific situation. My child has to transfer schools because too many kids in the classroom can't or won't behave. There is so much more to the situation that I won't describe for privacy reasons, so I have to just leave it at that. My child is sensitive and seeing constant unruliness, bullying, and disrespect for rules and people affects my child's ability to concentrate and learn. I am frustrated that my child, the rule-follower, is the one to leave, but that's our choice.

    This obviously has nothing to do with the OP, but I wanted to explain to suevv that I am describing my child's specific classroom environment, from our family's point of view, and am I sorry she felt I was judging her.

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