Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy When is he just being plain old bad?

So... The biggest thing lately is that DS6 seems to be having an extremely difficult time controlling all of his emotions. There are times when he almost seems to be vibrating because his emotions are so intense (especially when he is excited). He has been like this ever since we can remember.

It's often enjoyable when his particular emotions at any given time are very positive, like when he is expressing his undying love for us (like last night, when he asked me with great loving emotion if I would be willing to die for him and then said he would be willing to die for me), or when he's excited and sharing his positive excitement.

But if he's in a bad mood or feeling mischievous, watch out! Lately, he has been extremely mischievous and it's driving us (and poor DS4!) crazy. And he's so intense when he's doing it, and it's so obvious that he is out of control. They're all little things like throwing his clothes at us when he's getting changed, blurting out the answer to a math problem DS4 wants to solve, running to the door to beat DS4 to the door, etc, etc, but they sure add up!

We do usually notice when he's starting to ramp up and try to soothe, calm, or otherwise find a way (depending on the behaviour, good or bad) to bring him down as soon as we notice. And that often works just fine but these past few weeks, he's almost constantly in this mode and so it's impossible to manage.

Deep down, I know that he is actually just overexcited and doesn't actually want to be a big jerk to his family. And I know that he is affected by change, like the fact that the end of the school year in nearing. But ultimately, it is really bad behaviour and it's really bothering us.

We've learned a bunch of techniques to help him manage his emotions and address the misbehaviour in the moment. But my fundamental question (after that long rant!) is this: Is he just plain old being bad, or is it that he can't manage his emotions? We can't figure out if we're coddling him too much because of his big emotions, or if we are punishing him too often (with consequences) for behaviour he can't control.

I recognize that none of you know DS6, so it's impossible for you to answer that question for me. But do any of you have any words of wisdom from your own experiences?

I'm pretty sure I've already recommended this but try reading 'The Explosive Child'. The title is a bit off putting but it seriously changed our life with DS for the better. It helped us learn to help him learn how to regulate his intense emotions. That isn't to say that everything was magically fixed overnight but it really, really helped us.

Ah, yes. It's probably time I start following the advice if I'm going to ask for it...

Thanks, chay! I'm going to pick it up this week.

My DS7 has some temper issues too. I've reserved "the Explosive Child" and "What Your Explosive Child Is Trying to Tell You: Discovering the Pathway from Symptoms to Solutions" from our local library. Thank you chay for recommending the book.

I don't think "The Explosive Child" is for normally misbehaving kids, FYI.

And I don't think it matters whether your son is overexcitable or just naughty. I think the consequence is the same.

When my boys were that age, we did timeouts, but we also had a marble jar for good behavior. The kids really appreciated being recognized for doing something kind, helpful, cooperative, or any other thing we wanted to encourage. When their jar was filled, they got to choose an outing or treat. Honestly, we didn't fill it that often, but it was the act of being "caught" doing something good that mattered to them. I wonder if you can talk to your boys about behavior expectations, especially about being kind to each other, and set up rewards for good behavior, or simply just start commenting on good behavior, like, "Wow, [older brother], that was so thoughtful of you to let him go first this time. I really liked seeing that." It sounds like your older son is feeling competitive with his younger brother, so my focus would be on getting them to do kind things for each other. I think positive reinforcement is more effective that consequences.

As for the clothes throwing. Consequence for sure. That would require him to pick it up and also give a time out in his room for disrespecting you for throwing the laundry.

Another effective consequence for my kids was a Mitzvah. We're not jewish, so I'm not sure we did it right, but in our house, the transgressor had to do something to make up for whatever he had done wrong. In the case of the clothes throwing, this would be folding your clothes in addition to what he threw around, and maybe doing the laundry. If it was something involving his brother, you might ask the younger what would make him feel better, or how his brother could make it up to him. We had some creative punishments as a result of this, but the transgressor had time to think about what he'd done, and the "victim" ended up feeling valued and appreciated.

Also regarding controlling emotions, it's very common at ages 4 and 6 for them to be overexcitable. When my kids would try tantrums at that age, we would totally let them, but would ask them to go to their rooms to cry because it hurt our ears. We never told them how long to stay, just that they should stay there and relax until they felt more in control. It wasn't a punishment, so much as a way for them to settle down and learn self-control.

And finally, my soapbox. Please don't buy into the idea that gifted kids can't control themselves because of overexcitabilities, or that they need some other kind of rules. Gifted kids need to behave just like every other kid out there. I know you're not saying they don't, but many parents think that of their gifted children. The way one handles a gifted kids' bad behavior might be a little different, but the expectation should be every bit the same. We're actually removing one of my children from our district's highly gifted program because there are so many kids in the classroom who don't behave. Their parents think their kids are precious snowflakes who shouldn't be expected to be quiet, sit in their seats or be respectful, and they literally say that to the teachers. I'm frustrated that we have to move my child, rather than the naughty children moving, but it's a losing battle. Thanks for doing your part early, to make your children good citizens.

The one time that we were unable to get through to our DS5 and that he was "beyond our control" (not sure how else to say it) was last summer when he got a small cut on his hand. He was so overcome by his concern and fear that he flat out refused to do anything we asked of him with respect to opening his hand to wash it. It became a very bad scene with lots of upset from everyone. In the immediate aftermath, I clued in to the fact that there was something so upsetting to him about the cut that he lost his ability to control the upset. We didn't like the way we responded to it as parents, so we sought help. We took our son to two sessions with a psychologist, which was preceded by one session with the psychologist just for us. I also read the Explosive Child and lots of materials on the internet. I turned to another online discussion group and tried to figure out how we could handle similar situations if they were ever to arise again. I learned a great deal about our son and about our parenting style. I regret that we had to go through an ugly night or two before I clued in but I am so thankful that there are resources in the community and online that are there to help.

DS5 had another fall and scrape in the schoolyard this year, which bled as well. He does not like to bleed because he feels like he is "not himself"/ "not whole". He was upset about it again this year and didn't deal with it perfectly, but with what we learned last year and with the extra year of maturity we were able to handle it with minimal upset. Just yesterday he asked me to look at his knee and see that the scrape had gone away! He said it was only in his brain now, as a memory. We had also recently bought and read the book "Your Fantastic Elastic Brain" and we talked a lot about how he had stretched his amygdala, which was kind of fun.

It seems that there is always something to learn on this parenting journey. I sometimes feel like I am overreacting to everything and too quick to look for help rather than simply relying on my gut instinct. However, the incident with the cut last summer brought to my attention very quickly that my own toolbox was not equipped to deal with his very unexpected reaction to a minor injury.

I guess the point to my long-winded response is that there are lots of resources out there to help, although to be fair some of it is more easily accessible if you are able to pay for it out of pocket.

I would add that I really wondered about the appropriateness of taking DS5 to a psychologist for help. It is not something I had ever done before for myself or anyone else in my family. I really puzzled it through and realized that my concern was actually coming from the stigmatization of mental health issues. In the end I concluded that letting our son know that there is help in the community for mental health concerns is an important message to send.

I'm not sure how applicable any of that is to your situation, though, since as you say I don't know your DS6. We only have one child, so we don't have to deal with the interaction between brothers. Our son does sometimes get silly about things, as does every child. If he was ever to throw anything at us, or strike out, we would be quick to correct that sort of thing. He is expected to think about other people around him and how his behaviour affects them on a daily basis.

I picked this up from my son's awesome piano teacher - when he is doing something that is uncontrolled or overexcited, I say in a loud voice "Thank you for not throwing your clothes" or something appropriate to the occasion - e.g. "Thank you for not blurting out the answer and waiting for your turn". This seems to have a great effect on my son and reminds him to behave and he immediately stops the undesired behavior. I agree with syoblrig that gifted kids should not be let off the hook because they might possess overexcitabilities. They are eventually going to merge with normal people in society, join a workplace etc and will not get any free passes for behavior because they have overexcitabilities. Just remind him constantly that it is not easy to live around a kid who does these things.

For the throwing clothes thing: DH decided to let it go, but, I could not - so we compromised and set up a basketball hoop on top of his hamper and he throws his clothes into the hamper through the hoop

Actually, I think it's great for "normally" misbehaving kids. They don't have to actually be "exploding" behaviorally for it to be a system that works, and I think it's a wonderful way to deal with behavior whether it's "normal" or not.

I think you are on the right track when you are thinking about the root causes of the behavior. I can see how some people might look at a conversation about overexcitiabilities and determine a parent was letting a kid get away with something, but I think that sometimes if you don't get the reasons for the behavior, it is much harder to help that child become more disciplined without feeling that they are just a bad person.

Seconding this!

I also feel it helped me to keep things in perspective - as in the idea that a child isn't able to do something YET...

Also, the child does not have to be throwing temper tantrums for it to be useful - we had it recommended for a child who shuts down rather than acting out.