Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy When is he just being plain old bad?

So... The biggest thing lately is that DS6 seems to be having an extremely difficult time controlling all of his emotions. There are times when he almost seems to be vibrating because his emotions are so intense (especially when he is excited). He has been like this ever since we can remember.

It's often enjoyable when his particular emotions at any given time are very positive, like when he is expressing his undying love for us (like last night, when he asked me with great loving emotion if I would be willing to die for him and then said he would be willing to die for me), or when he's excited and sharing his positive excitement.

But if he's in a bad mood or feeling mischievous, watch out! Lately, he has been extremely mischievous and it's driving us (and poor DS4!) crazy. And he's so intense when he's doing it, and it's so obvious that he is out of control. They're all little things like throwing his clothes at us when he's getting changed, blurting out the answer to a math problem DS4 wants to solve, running to the door to beat DS4 to the door, etc, etc, but they sure add up!

We do usually notice when he's starting to ramp up and try to soothe, calm, or otherwise find a way (depending on the behaviour, good or bad) to bring him down as soon as we notice. And that often works just fine but these past few weeks, he's almost constantly in this mode and so it's impossible to manage.

Deep down, I know that he is actually just overexcited and doesn't actually want to be a big jerk to his family. And I know that he is affected by change, like the fact that the end of the school year in nearing. But ultimately, it is really bad behaviour and it's really bothering us.

We've learned a bunch of techniques to help him manage his emotions and address the misbehaviour in the moment. But my fundamental question (after that long rant!) is this: Is he just plain old being bad, or is it that he can't manage his emotions? We can't figure out if we're coddling him too much because of his big emotions, or if we are punishing him too often (with consequences) for behaviour he can't control.

I recognize that none of you know DS6, so it's impossible for you to answer that question for me. But do any of you have any words of wisdom from your own experiences?

I'm pretty sure I've already recommended this but try reading 'The Explosive Child'. The title is a bit off putting but it seriously changed our life with DS for the better. It helped us learn to help him learn how to regulate his intense emotions. That isn't to say that everything was magically fixed overnight but it really, really helped us.

Ah, yes. It's probably time I start following the advice if I'm going to ask for it...

Thanks, chay! I'm going to pick it up this week.

My DS7 has some temper issues too. I've reserved "the Explosive Child" and "What Your Explosive Child Is Trying to Tell You: Discovering the Pathway from Symptoms to Solutions" from our local library. Thank you chay for recommending the book.

I don't think "The Explosive Child" is for normally misbehaving kids, FYI.

And I don't think it matters whether your son is overexcitable or just naughty. I think the consequence is the same.

When my boys were that age, we did timeouts, but we also had a marble jar for good behavior. The kids really appreciated being recognized for doing something kind, helpful, cooperative, or any other thing we wanted to encourage. When their jar was filled, they got to choose an outing or treat. Honestly, we didn't fill it that often, but it was the act of being "caught" doing something good that mattered to them. I wonder if you can talk to your boys about behavior expectations, especially about being kind to each other, and set up rewards for good behavior, or simply just start commenting on good behavior, like, "Wow, [older brother], that was so thoughtful of you to let him go first this time. I really liked seeing that." It sounds like your older son is feeling competitive with his younger brother, so my focus would be on getting them to do kind things for each other. I think positive reinforcement is more effective that consequences.

As for the clothes throwing. Consequence for sure. That would require him to pick it up and also give a time out in his room for disrespecting you for throwing the laundry.

Another effective consequence for my kids was a Mitzvah. We're not jewish, so I'm not sure we did it right, but in our house, the transgressor had to do something to make up for whatever he had done wrong. In the case of the clothes throwing, this would be folding your clothes in addition to what he threw around, and maybe doing the laundry. If it was something involving his brother, you might ask the younger what would make him feel better, or how his brother could make it up to him. We had some creative punishments as a result of this, but the transgressor had time to think about what he'd done, and the "victim" ended up feeling valued and appreciated.

Also regarding controlling emotions, it's very common at ages 4 and 6 for them to be overexcitable. When my kids would try tantrums at that age, we would totally let them, but would ask them to go to their rooms to cry because it hurt our ears. We never told them how long to stay, just that they should stay there and relax until they felt more in control. It wasn't a punishment, so much as a way for them to settle down and learn self-control.

And finally, my soapbox. Please don't buy into the idea that gifted kids can't control themselves because of overexcitabilities, or that they need some other kind of rules. Gifted kids need to behave just like every other kid out there. I know you're not saying they don't, but many parents think that of their gifted children. The way one handles a gifted kids' bad behavior might be a little different, but the expectation should be every bit the same. We're actually removing one of my children from our district's highly gifted program because there are so many kids in the classroom who don't behave. Their parents think their kids are precious snowflakes who shouldn't be expected to be quiet, sit in their seats or be respectful, and they literally say that to the teachers. I'm frustrated that we have to move my child, rather than the naughty children moving, but it's a losing battle. Thanks for doing your part early, to make your children good citizens.

The one time that we were unable to get through to our DS5 and that he was "beyond our control" (not sure how else to say it) was last summer when he got a small cut on his hand. He was so overcome by his concern and fear that he flat out refused to do anything we asked of him with respect to opening his hand to wash it. It became a very bad scene with lots of upset from everyone. In the immediate aftermath, I clued in to the fact that there was something so upsetting to him about the cut that he lost his ability to control the upset. We didn't like the way we responded to it as parents, so we sought help. We took our son to two sessions with a psychologist, which was preceded by one session with the psychologist just for us. I also read the Explosive Child and lots of materials on the internet. I turned to another online discussion group and tried to figure out how we could handle similar situations if they were ever to arise again. I learned a great deal about our son and about our parenting style. I regret that we had to go through an ugly night or two before I clued in but I am so thankful that there are resources in the community and online that are there to help.

DS5 had another fall and scrape in the schoolyard this year, which bled as well. He does not like to bleed because he feels like he is "not himself"/ "not whole". He was upset about it again this year and didn't deal with it perfectly, but with what we learned last year and with the extra year of maturity we were able to handle it with minimal upset. Just yesterday he asked me to look at his knee and see that the scrape had gone away! He said it was only in his brain now, as a memory. We had also recently bought and read the book "Your Fantastic Elastic Brain" and we talked a lot about how he had stretched his amygdala, which was kind of fun.

It seems that there is always something to learn on this parenting journey. I sometimes feel like I am overreacting to everything and too quick to look for help rather than simply relying on my gut instinct. However, the incident with the cut last summer brought to my attention very quickly that my own toolbox was not equipped to deal with his very unexpected reaction to a minor injury.

I guess the point to my long-winded response is that there are lots of resources out there to help, although to be fair some of it is more easily accessible if you are able to pay for it out of pocket.

I would add that I really wondered about the appropriateness of taking DS5 to a psychologist for help. It is not something I had ever done before for myself or anyone else in my family. I really puzzled it through and realized that my concern was actually coming from the stigmatization of mental health issues. In the end I concluded that letting our son know that there is help in the community for mental health concerns is an important message to send.

I'm not sure how applicable any of that is to your situation, though, since as you say I don't know your DS6. We only have one child, so we don't have to deal with the interaction between brothers. Our son does sometimes get silly about things, as does every child. If he was ever to throw anything at us, or strike out, we would be quick to correct that sort of thing. He is expected to think about other people around him and how his behaviour affects them on a daily basis.

I picked this up from my son's awesome piano teacher - when he is doing something that is uncontrolled or overexcited, I say in a loud voice "Thank you for not throwing your clothes" or something appropriate to the occasion - e.g. "Thank you for not blurting out the answer and waiting for your turn". This seems to have a great effect on my son and reminds him to behave and he immediately stops the undesired behavior. I agree with syoblrig that gifted kids should not be let off the hook because they might possess overexcitabilities. They are eventually going to merge with normal people in society, join a workplace etc and will not get any free passes for behavior because they have overexcitabilities. Just remind him constantly that it is not easy to live around a kid who does these things.

For the throwing clothes thing: DH decided to let it go, but, I could not - so we compromised and set up a basketball hoop on top of his hamper and he throws his clothes into the hamper through the hoop

Actually, I think it's great for "normally" misbehaving kids. They don't have to actually be "exploding" behaviorally for it to be a system that works, and I think it's a wonderful way to deal with behavior whether it's "normal" or not.

I think you are on the right track when you are thinking about the root causes of the behavior. I can see how some people might look at a conversation about overexcitiabilities and determine a parent was letting a kid get away with something, but I think that sometimes if you don't get the reasons for the behavior, it is much harder to help that child become more disciplined without feeling that they are just a bad person.

Seconding this!

I also feel it helped me to keep things in perspective - as in the idea that a child isn't able to do something YET...

Also, the child does not have to be throwing temper tantrums for it to be useful - we had it recommended for a child who shuts down rather than acting out.

I just love this forum. I love that it's possible to have these thoughtful discussions with other parents who have a solid understanding of these types of issues.

syoblrig: I agree 100% that gifted kids need to behave as much as anyone else. To that end, we do sticker charts, positive reinforcement and consequences. We also have lots of chats about emotions, we try to incorporate a bit of yoga and meditation here and there, we read books about emotions, and invite them to go to their room if they need to calm down. We have had a parenting coach who was of great help, but has since retired. We're definitely doing what we can. I do like your concept of the Mitzvah, and will talk to DH to see if we want to incorporate that as another tool.

My question is more whether we need to be doing discipline "differently" with him, and to what extent. I can tell you with absolute certainty that when he isn't "buzzing", he is a kid with a huge heart. He also adores his little brother and they are wonderful friends. Bottom line is, I think he mostly has a hard time controlling his emotions. He is always "more" of everything, whether it's good or bad.

HJA: We may actually start sessions with a psychologist soon. As far as I'm concerned, it's just another tool to add to their toolbox for good mental health. If it's a good fit and he likes it, I'd like to continue for a while. I just see it as a great way to help him manage the big emotions. By the way, I sent you a PM about something else.

Ashley: I actually used the "Thank you for not doing X" trick a lot last night. Don't remember where we picked it up but yes, it seems to help.

howdy: That's exactly it. You just expressed it more accurately/succinctly than I did. Whenever he's acting out because he's anxious for example, we find that the most effective way to bring him around is to help him express his feelings. If instead he's acting out because he's in a bad mood, the best approach is probably a consequence. It's just hard to know which is which sometimes.

Generally, it seems that GC aren't simple to parent!

I have to say that the precious snowflake comment feels very judgmental. I am a parent whose child has trouble with all the things you listed. We - meaning both he AND his parents - work very hard on this. We have expectations and consequences and he probably works harder on this than most any kid in his class. He also suffers for it a ton, because he knows he fails and he wants so badly to succeed.

Judgment doesn't help him or me as his mom. I used to respond to judgment like this. I'd try to adopt the strategies offered by the folks making the judgment, and I firmly believed there was something wrong with both my parenting and my son. Over the years I came to realize that standard reward/punishment strategies were not only useless, they were harmful. Since much of my son's behavior was not volitional, the punishments and rewards were inherently arbitrary to him, and they actually became an obstacle to his growth because they confused him so.

Likewise, and for the same reason, public humiliation was incredibly harmful. You wouldn't berate a disabled child for failing to run fast, would you?

So - you won't ever SEE me castigating my son for his behavior, or otherwise embarrassing him in public for his behavioral failures. You won't hear about the things he loves being taken away, except when that's a natural (i.e., necessary) consequence. (I.e., "If you won't put the Magic cards away when you need to get to sleep, then I have to take them away." NOT - "You blurted answers in class and were disrespectful to your classmate, so I'm taking away your Magic cards."). You won't hear about sticker charts or red/yellow/green or any of the other strategies that work for so many kids. They don't do a d#$!ed bit of good, and I will no longer succumb to pressure to impose them. Net - if you were in our home, you would see him getting powerful, meaningful consequences that show him both what expectations are and why he should keep working to meet them. And he does.

You'll also never hear me saying that he "doesn't have to behave because he's gifted." That's ludicrous. But he is wired differently from other kids, and you will hear me defend him against the imposition of one-size-fits-all punishment/reward strategies and the attendant condemnation from teachers and other parents when they inevitably fail.

I'm sorry for my rant in response to your rant. But it just pushed every button for me as a mom. I'm sure you didn't mean it as a general condemnation of parents of kids (gifted or otherwise) who have behavior problems. It just sort of felt like it ....

Prior posters have offered good advice. In our case, it seems that time helped a great deal. At six, DS was an intense handful, to put it mildly. It seemed as if he was always on and often, if not fully occupied by something (which, fortunately, including reading at times) he was a mess. I look at photos of him at that age now and see a ball of energy who likely felt trapped all day doing things he'd already done or didn't care to do for the required time (very bad school year).

Many, many long conversations, punishments, a new school and nearly four years later, he is a much calmer child 80-90% of the time. He's always been kind to other children, but he is now a leader with others. He still is not an easy child, but the difference over that timespan is remarkable. I think time and growth is a big part of the difference. His EF perhaps has started to catch up a bit.

suevv, have you shared your methods of assigning consequences at home with your child's teachers? I am sure that all teachers know and accept that "one size fits all" punishment does not work and they also want what is best for the child - so, how can a teacher know what the right fit is? For e.g., running around and causing disruption in a classroom where the kid is expected to sit at his desk (in 4th grade, not K). What does the teacher do under those circumstances? My son was in such a situation and he just could not focus or concentrate when a boy used to noisily run around in circles and make funny noises, crack jokes etc. - especially during test taking. My son was not the only one in the class that got affected by that. The teacher followed the school handbook which has rules for these situations. I am curious to know what kind of consequences should be set for such incidents for such a kid. This kid is PG and has overexcitabilities. And we are close friends with this family. I am asking in the hope that I can offer some help to them, because I feel for the parents as well.

+1

My DS (grade 2) also struggles with sitting still and quiet - it doesn't seem to be something he can easily control - yet. (He's not the only one in his class, so I think some of it is age-appropriate behaviour)

We've worked with him and his teachers on strategies (allowing him to go to the hall when he needs to move around; using noise-cancelling headphones) and this has generally helped. I don't think 'consequences' would have helped. Sticker charts - useless with my kids!

Same here. They don't work for my DS7 (work better on non-PG DS9). PG or not, my DS7 is different and we'll need to find other ways to correct his misbehaves and temper issues. That's why I want to read the recommended books to see if we can find causes of his behavior issues and use some of the suggested solutions.

suevv, I can definitely understand how you feel. It's not to the same extent at this point, but I do feel your pain. I too feel like we (DH, DS6 and I) have to work so much harder at it than most, and it can be exhausting for the whole family. And we also often feel judged anytime he acts out in public. Though we're sort of lucky on that front for the time being - he seems to save his bad behaviour for us at home, which makes it easier because there aren't extra sets of eyes.

You seem to be referring to a time in the past, so I hope he's doing better. In any case, you are not alone. ((hugs))

Thank you for writing this. It is so true that parents make excuses for their gifted kids. Ever since bad behavior has been on the check list for giftedness I think parents subconsciously encourage it or ignore it. I run an enrichment club with many highly gifted kids and I have to say that they are well behaved, as are my kids, more than the mildly gifted kids. I think the worst behaved are the ones who know their kids are only above average and I often hear their parents call them "free thinkers"-- it's not free thinking when you encourage them to be that way!

There was an article published about gifted kids, saying how stressed and anxious they are at such young ages because they get tested young and feel the pressure. In my opinion it's when the parents get the results and then start treating their children differently. I've seen a lot of sad parents try to get their kids onto the club and I see how they her their children behave, compared to the ones who are actually gifted.

That feels better to have unbottled that. I'd like to see a ban on psychologists giving out IQ results, other than gifted or not gifted. The parents whose kids are 120-135 are the worst (they either desperately wish their child was gifted, or if they are gifted they desperately wish their child was profoundly gifted).

It's not OK for a kid to be disrupting the class, even if he can't seem to help himself.

Each year, I talk to DS's teachers to let them know what strategies have worked. Unfortunately, they always need to first work through their favorite one-size-fits-all strategy. Usually some sort of positive reinforcement check-off thing. I'll let them know that these generally fail, but it's their classroom, and they always want to try it first.

The better teachers - and he had a good one this year - pretty quickly see that the strategy has no impact. Then we talk about what to do. Here are some things that have worked. DS is not "all better." But he had a great year of growth and improvement. I'd say we had 3 types of strategies - prevention, mitigation and rehabilitation, if you will.

Prevention. DS struggles with being crowded, overwhelmed with noise/exciting behavior by another child, and impatient (which is a better way to say "bored" I think). For crowding and noise, DS - and others in the class who need it - have an escape hatch. The ability to remove to a quiet corner or a bench outside the classroom instead of working at a group table. To NOT sit on the carpet for the class meeting. He is also allowed to request to switch to a different small group, provided he can articulate a respectful reason ("Her voice is very high and loud and it hurts my ear" as opposed to "She's stupid and I hate her.") For the impatience - he can finish his work, even in a cursory fashion, and then move on to something he finds more engaging, provided it's at least tangentially related. So when the class had to write poetry, which he found to be awful, once he wrote a crappy 4-line poem, he was permitted to return to writing his novel about WW III. For pair work and seating assignments - he gets paired with other "quick" kids, and specifically NOT paired with kids that tend to spin up - even when those kids are also quick.

Mitigation. There are consequences for failure. But the consequence has to make sense. If he's blurting or disrupting, he is asked to take a break away from the class. Sit at the bench outside the classroom for a few minutes. Take some books back to the library. If he's having trouble on the playground - he is asked to go back in the classroom or into the library or office. He might lose part of recess if a problem was big enough. But not to stay to write punishment sentences, but rather to chat quietly with teacher about what happened, why it was not OK, and what alternatives would have been better. Sometimes, being given a chore can derail an escalating problem - like doing prep work for an upcoming project or sorting crayons or some such thing. This is delicate, because it's critical not to reinforce the behavior. But if the actions weren't within his control, it's not reward OR punishment to provide a re-direct. It's just a necessary means to address the problem and help him manage better in the future.

Rehabilitation. This is possibly the most important thing. Once DS is back on the rails, it helps so much for him to hear respect for his best efforts, and a reminder that he is still a worthwhile human being even though he failed this time. His teacher this year was a genius at this. He still cherishes the note she sent him while he was on the bench in the office: "DS, if you feel calm and ready to learn, you are welcome to return to our classroom. Love, Mrs. Teacher." And she really did welcome him and let him know he was loved. She also worked hard to remind him what he did well - "It was so great when you knew you were having trouble, and asked for a break in the quiet area." I was a tiny bit disappointed that she never did talk to him positively about his huge strength areas in academics, because I think this might have also helped. But that wasn't her style, and I can respect that.

This all requires a lot of effort and sincere care by the teacher, AND a super-humanly calm disposition to boot. I'm deeply grateful that 2 of his 3 teachers so far have been willing and able.

Hope this wasn't TL;DR!

Sue

suevv - love your last two posts.

This isn't about giving gifted kids a free pass and/or not disciplining them. It is about building their skills so that they are able to handle their sometimes intense emotions.

All of the discipline, consequences, sticker charts and rewards aren't going to help if the child doesn't have the needed skills. My DD figured this stuff out mostly on her own while for DS we have had to work really, really, really hard at it with him - they are very different kids. I know we've been judged (and likely still will be) when he hasn't been at his best but I also know that he's come a long way and that the meltdowns are much less frequent and far less spectacular than they would have been without the work.

Where angels fear to tread - what a thread!

I do have sympathy for syoblrig's concerns. My son moved to a gifted class this year which seems to have broken down on the attitude/ parenting thing, to the point where the principal has been a regular classroom visitor, trying to teach the kids some rudiments of common decency and respect. No kid should get a free pass to be rude, or be taught they're too superior to have to abide by the rules that apply to the plebeian masses.

but - - - But - - - BUT - - - I was waiting for sue to jump in, and I am glad she did, with her usual wonderful contribution. The OP was talking about a kid far off the norms of intensity, not *most* gifted kids. Here, as everywhere, what works for the majority fails for the extremes. As sue says, punishing a child for things they can't control, telling them to "try harder" when they are already trying as hard as they can, is unhelpful at best, destructive if we make a habit of it.

There is a huge difference between understanding intensity as an explanation vs using it as an excuse. Whether it is a "can't" or a "won't", the behaviour is never OK, and it's important for the child to understand that the behaviour is. not. ok. The difference is in what you do about it.

No amount of punishment or sticker chart reward is going to change a behaviour the child doesn't know how to control. It just makes them feel even more helpless, and a bad person to boot. When the behaviour is a "can't", the child needs direct, explicit teaching of the skill; sympathy and appreciation for their efforts (which is not a get out of jail card!); adult scaffolding to support not-yet skills; and the opportunity after calm returns to make restitution as best they can.

We don't have punishments and rewards. Gave up long ago when my kids made clear that extrinsic motivators, meh. But we do celebrate our successes, large and small, in impromptu ways, and pay a lot of attention to small gains and large efforts. And we have to own up to and fix our mistakes (mine included). We ask, "how can we fix this, or at least make it better?" Hug and speak supportively to the person whose feelings or body we hurt (and doesn't matter if the hurt was intentional or oblivion, we need to learn to pay attention to our bodies, and how our words and our tone are perceived by others). Clean up the mess, redo the whatever. And we do it with help and support, to make a problem better, not to punish.

[ok, sometimes I lose it. But this is the way I WANT it to work ].

Some kids just have really, really huge, incredibly overwhelming emotions. They are experiencing the world in a different way, and can be quick as scared and appalled by their lack of control as the commenting bystanders. They - and their parents - needs to work a thousand-fold harder on building that same emotional regulation that other kids gain with age and some simple and consistent rules and correction. That's not an excuse. That's understanding the problem, so you can find relevant solutions.

So going back to the OP, given that the child is only 6, I could even ask whether it actually matters whether he's being deliberately bad or just having a hard time managing overwhelming emotions? Either way, you want him to recognize that the behaviour was unacceptable, that he has to make restitution as much as he can, and that he has to brainstorm with you about what triggers got him to this place, and how he could change the trajectory next time. Bad behaviour, yes. But a good kid, who will keep trying to make it better, with your help.

Sue and Platypus101, I appreciate your input so much that it has nearly brought me to tears. That is exactly it. By no means are we trying to use it as an excuse and yes, we are all working really hard.

To your question Platypus, I think I just find it easier to deal with when it's because he "can't", rather than when he "won't". On those occasions, I have a lot less patience for him. I know I should always remain calm, but it's not always easy.

I had a heart to heart conversation with our poor darling last night and it made me really sad. His words: "I try really hard to manage my emotions and my behaviour, but it doesn't work a lot of the time. I'm an emotional type of kid. I'm not normal. It's ok, I don't want to be normal. There are normal people everywhere, but there aren't that many emotional kids. But it's really hard. One of my tricks is to try not to look back, to just think about the future." He can be so very self-aware sometimes! He really does have "really, really huge incredibly overwhelming emotions", just like his mamma.

And add to the mix that there's usually something behind the behaviour, too. This morning, when were asking about his feelings he said: "Let me explain something. You see, it's because I don't play soccer and [his best friend] plays soccer at recess and I don't have anyone to play with except one boy who is sort of strange. He's nice, but he's strange. But he's the only one who has enough of an imagination to play made up games with me. I can't tell anyone else about these games because they would laugh and tease me." There are two reasons he won't play soccer: He feels he's not good enough, and he knows that he'll be really upset if his team loses. So he misses out on all the fun. It makes him sad and he spends a lot of time thinking about the whole thing.

Wow, what incredible amount of self awareness your DS has! That is incredible for a six year old.

I can relate to the recess story. My son, who is 7, also does not like to play soccer. He never said it but I think your son's reason would apply in his case as well. Luckily for my son, there is a little girl in his class really plays well with him. I think they do these pretend play together at most recesses. I dread the day when the girls won't play with boys anymore.

Indeed! I had no idea I was opening such a Pandora's box...

Are not many/most gifted kids this intense? I was under the impression that many/most GC have the emotional overexcitabilities.

I would say some, rather than most. Many GC have high emotional intelligence, but not necessarily emotional OEs. (Just as there are also non-GC who have high EQs, emotional intensity, or both.)

Wow - that is great RRD - not that he is having trouble on the playground, but that he is so emotionally aware and articulate!

My DS8 - I can see that he is emotionally sensitive, but he cannot articulate it - not even to tell me he is happy or sad. So he either shuts down his emotions when they get too intense (and then people think he is uncaring), or he acts out. It can be very confusing!

He is certainly not alone with the playground issues - neither of my kids wanted to play soccer at recess. It certainly cut down on the number of kids they could play with - but they have both found other kids to interact with during breaks.

And it can be really hard to sort out the can'ts from the won'ts. Throw in a little (ok a lot) of stubbornness (parents and kids) and oh boy - it's hard!

When I remember - I find it's best to drop the issue (whatever it is) and come back to it when everyone is calmer.

Given your DS's self-awareness - I'm betting things will get easier as he gets older.

suevv, thanks for the detailed reply. I will forward it to my friend to see if she can use any of this for her son's situation.

OP: apologies for the thread hijack.

No apology needed. These are all worthwhile discussions.

RRD you've received a lot of great perspectives already from other posters. You may also find the link article below useful even though it goes well beyond the issues your DS is currently experiencing When your child's other exceptionality is emotional .

I'm sorry this pushed your buttons. I obviously wasn't referring to you and it sounds like you're doing your best. But I WAS being judgmental about the preciously snowflake comment. I admit it, but I was referring to a specific situation. My child has to transfer schools because too many kids in the classroom can't or won't behave. There is so much more to the situation that I won't describe for privacy reasons, so I have to just leave it at that. My child is sensitive and seeing constant unruliness, bullying, and disrespect for rules and people affects my child's ability to concentrate and learn. I am frustrated that my child, the rule-follower, is the one to leave, but that's our choice.

This obviously has nothing to do with the OP, but I wanted to explain to suevv that I am describing my child's specific classroom environment, from our family's point of view, and am I sorry she felt I was judging her.