Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums Pre-school Suspected gifted 3yo - hitting at school

It's been awhile since I posted... http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....s_my_15_month_old_gifted.html#Post195901

My DS will be 3yo next month and he goes to preschool half the day everyday. It's not what I would call an academic preschool. As far as I know, these kids are learning letters one at a time and still learning to count in his class. If you look at my old thread, you can see why these lesson might be boring for my DS.

The teachers and director have told me he is hitting children for no reason and without anger on a constant/daily basis. It was only after observing him myself and then talking more with the teachers about their protocol in the hitting situation that I realized: he is either bored or in need of one-on-one attention. When he hits, they pull him aside and give him a one-on-one talk. I'm figuring they're giving him exactly what he wants!

Did anyone else or has anyone else gone through this with a gifted toddler? How to I broach the subject with the preschool and my pediatrician when neither has any inkling of my suspicions that he is gifted?

Magenta, I worked in a preschool where we had a similar situation. I discussed it with the main teacher and suggested that the child might be bored, could we "differentiate" for them in class. We had good results with things like, at circle time when talking about the letter of the week, the child was asked a difficult question relating to the letter (which presidents' or states' names start or end with the letter, how many ways can this letter be pronounced) to work on, keeping the brain and body busy while the other kids were asked "does this animal start with this letter". Similar when talking about weather, colors, and so on. The rest of the day, suggested activities helped, daily responsibilities, redirecting before things deteriorated (this took a lot of attention) and partnering the child with another in the class who was close in abilities, mature, and kind of a leader. Of course, be careful what you wish for: that relationship grew into a "posse" of pals. It was good, but high energy! Hope this story helps.

I hear two questions:

1. How to address the hitting at preschool (which you are hypothesizing is attention-seeking).

2. How to address his academic needs.

I'm not sure if you are actually asking both questions, but I think it may be useful to separate them anyway!

Question 1 does not require getting into question 2. All that really requires is sitting down with the teachers and describing your observation and hypothesis that he wants attention, and is obtaining it by hitting. This is a very simple and common function of behavior in small children, regardless of cognitive level. Solutions will involve two things:

a) meeting the need for attention.
b) replacing the undesirable behavior with a socially-appropriate one.

The preschool setting can address these by setting up a bit of one-on-one time for him--IF HE DOES NOT HIT. I would suggest having a conversation with him about ways of seeking attention or requesting assistance (i.e., with polite, respectful words). The interval of not hitting required for a few minutes of one-on-one attention will depend on how frequently he is hitting right now. If he hits once or twice a day, then I would say special time should occur once or twice a day. If he hits more than that, then the intervals might be as short as 15-20 minutes. The idea is that it should be an interval that allows for him to achieve the reward about 50-75% of the time, so he experiences positive reinforcement, but does have to work a little to earn it. Once he tops 75% of the time on a regular basis (say averaged over a week), you can start to fade the reinforcement, by spacing out the intervals a bit at a time, until the behavior is no longer a concern.

The setting also needs to make the existing behavior ineffective--which is how time-out is supposed to be used. If he hits, rather than being pulled aside for a little chat, he should be moved quietly and firmly to some place by himself, for, say, 2 minutes. Quietly is extremely important. If the adult engages with him at all while moving him to time-out, it defeats the purpose. This also has to be part of a conversation before the fact, so that he understands that, when he hits, he will immediately and silently be moved into a quiet chair for two minutes.

In combination, he will end up being rewarded with attention for periods of not hitting, and removed from attention when he hits. During the first week or two, the behavior may actually increase, as he attempts to escalate what previously worked to gain attention. Staff must be very consistent and disciplined about not responding off-script.

It is also possible that he will spontaneously extinguish the behavior once it becomes clear that staff will not engage with him when he does it, making the more gradual reinforcement schedule unnecessary.

As to Question 2: perhaps his academic needs are a topic that might be introduced when the school asks what they should do with him for special time.

And yes, we went through something similar, at about this age, except that it was biting. At church.

The thing that really threw me in the beginning weeks ago was that the director flat out, point blank told me that this was "not normal for his age."

Then we left him with a sitter last night, and she is a former preschool head teacher (now a kindergarten teacher), and she nodded emphatically before I could even get my sentence out, "He's been hitting and school and ...." She told me it was not out of the ordinary in the least! She at first thought it was out of anger, but then I told her it was out of nowhere for seemingly no reason. She said it was 100% attention-seeking (and possibly boredom).

Thank you both for reinforcing my suspicion that this is common and easily remedied (even if it's not specifically a "gifted" issue)! The director and teachers have been clueless and scratching their heads over this for at least two weeks now, not realizing that they themselves are rewarding his hitting behaviors.

Magenta,

aeh has given you excellent advice, and my first reaction is also to reassure you that this is not unusual behavior for a 3 year old


One thing I'd add though - it's easy for me, or for your babysitter, or for anyone who's not at preschool with your ds during the day everyday actually witnessing the behavior to say this is normal behavior for a 3 year old, and to draw the conclusion, based on your observations, that he's hitting because his behavior is essentially being rewarded. I'd just add that hitting is a form of communication, and it's possible he's trying to communicate something at preschool that he doesn't need to communicate at home or to his babysitter. That could be boredom, it could be something else. When you're working with his preschool teachers, be sure to not discount what they have to say about his behaviors - work with them to implement a plan such as aeh suggested, but also don't automatically assume that they are simply inept at dealing with a three year old who is hitting. They most likely have seen a large number of three year olds, and it's possible that when they say what they are seeing isn't normal, what they are seeing really isn't normal. Hope that makes sense!

Also think through his school day and what happens when vs when he typically has issues with hitting - you can ask the caregivers if he's more likely to hit throughout the day at random or if the hitting occurs during specific activities or at specific times. One of my children was being constantly pegged as a problem at her preschool and we were called in a number of times and it was implied that her behavior was "not normal" - but the behaviors they complained about occurred most frequently after snack or after lunch. We eventually realized she had food allergies, and her "abnormal" behavior was occurring because she felt miserable after she ate dairy, which we were packing in like crazy in her snacks and lunch. I'm not suggesting your ds has food allergies, just suggesting to look for patterns re when the hitting occurs and see what it might relate to.

I would also consider that, for a lot of gifted children, a preschool that is including things that are semi-preschool-academic like learning letters etc often isn't a good fit. I personally can't imagine that it's going to be easy for the teachers to find a way to give your ds the special time reward on an ongoing basis, unless it's a preschool with a small caregiver-student ratio. If you have any other options for preschool that emphasize experiences, play, Montessori, etc, it might be worth looking into.

Best wishes,

polarbear

Thanks polarbear, I hear what you are saying about trusting the long-term experience of daycare teachers and directors. But one thing that I did not mention is that this director has been at the daycare less than a year, and there has been a suspiciously high turnover of staff.

At least 4 people that I know of, some who had previously been with the school for 10+ years, left. And the junior members of the caregiving team, who may not have had as much schooling or day-to-day experience as the more mature ladies, have taken over head teaching positions while the school searches for permanent head teachers. The whole place has been turned upside down. My DS wouldn't know the difference because the new director started literally the 2nd day he began attendance. But I get the feeling that the staff is not what it once was. It's possible that once they get their ideal hires for the head teacher positions that things will right themselves, but I don't know how long that wait is going to be. I'll also mention that I've not only seen significant staff turnover, but that even some of the children in his class seem to have disappeared (the school cares for kids up to 4/5, so a significant handful of missing 2-3yos might mean something is up).

At first, the academic portion of the daycare was not of concern to me--I just wanted a safe, clean, nearby place that would watch him for 3 hours a day so I could get some freelance work done. But I'm realizing now that 3 hours of HIS day is more significant than I thought, and maybe I should have been more selective. He LOVED the open-play "baby/toddler" room when he was under 2, but the more structured and "academic" things got as he moved to a higher class, the less he seems to like it there. I would find him a new placement, but my husband is graduating this year and we will be moving to a new location (undetermined) by the end of summer anyhow. Again, I realize that months of my DS's time is more significant than months of MY time.

I will bring up the hitting and my boredom/attention-seeking hypothesis at his 3-year check up within the month, and we'll see what the pediatrician has to say. A second, reliable expert opinion never hurt.

It sounds like a rather chaotic daycare, rather than a well-run preschool. Your son may indeed be inappropriately hitting, but getting a chaotic daycare to implement a successful strategy may not be easy. With your description, and particularly that you only need a few hours a day, I'd start looking for a new preschool (and not a daycare), even if only for a few months.

When my older son was in the three's and four's class at school, they also did one letter a week, worked on counting, etc., but his teacher had the time and energy to pull him aside to play sight word games or read books (he was the only reader).

Also, if you do look for a new place, I'd recommend looking specifically for play-based. Much more opportunity for boys to get their energy out, and there's still plenty of opportunity (in our experience) for learning.

Diana, I think I'd like to give them a chance to accommodate him first..

I know my OP made it sound like I thought the director and staff were completely inept (along with my frustrated comment about them not knowing the cause of the hitting for weeks), but in actuality the director and I both observed him together and she was the first one to say aloud, "Oh, he's bored!" I also have to give her credit when I came to her about the staff possibly rewarding the hitting without knowing it, she immediately said, "So! Focus on the child who has been hit instead of [DS, and don't give him a one-on-one talk]." She also began to brainstorm aloud about giving him a structured activity or focused attention during free time as that's when the behavior seemed to be worst. That's why I was so angry in retrospect when I remembered she told me it "wasn't normal"--it only took her and me 15 mins of observation to figure out why he was hitting.

This is why I'm considering NOW is the time to mention that he might be bored because he knew at least 50% of this stuff before he was 18mos old.

Magenta, I can appreciate trying to work with your current school rather than moving on. I do hope it works.

The reason I'm wondering about the chances of success is that a three-year-old shouldn't be doing so much academics that he has time to be bored, IMO. In my just-turned three-year-old's class, academics are de-emphasized and very well hidden in play. My son is incredibly advanced but spends his time biking around the playground, playing with bubbles, and painting blobs.

I do hope you find a good solution for your boy. I have a bit of a soapbox about the current climate of earlier and earlier academics, simply because of how far my two have come just by playing and absorbing.