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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,856
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Joined: Oct 2011
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Because in a group, there can really only be one leader! So self-organizing ensures that the kids learn team work (hello, teamwork camp) but not that they will learn leadership. Disagree. That notion of rigid hierarchical management doesn't often work well in the real world. Optimal results are usually achieved by teams that can dynamically, often subconsciously, pass the leadership baton among the various members, at the appropriate times. And here again, that appears to be the sort of thing the camp is attempting to achieve. For example, here we are, parents of gifted children, ultimately in charge, but "child-led" is a common theme on this forum, and the connotation is positive.
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 337
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Posts: 337 |
Well, I see your point, but I guess I don't think the dynamics of middle school are going to reflect this without some guidance. Middle school really is more Lord of the Flies.
Anyway, I apologize. I didn't mean to derail the larger discussion.
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,181
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Put me in the column of parents here who support the notion that leadership skills are best developed organically. In fact if they aren't learned organically, they aren't learned at all. And I don't think this is an issue for kids only, or for leadership only. This is why - at work - I want to poke my eyes out in order to avoid "career development" classes on mushy things like leadership, management, teamwork, mentoring, trust, women's issues and all the related Dilbert stuff. I have to do these "mandatory" classes all the time. I can honestly say I've never applied a single thing I "learned" in them. They are artificial, useless and profoundly irritating. To the extent it's useful for your daughter - let her know that it's not just her! Oh, I don't know. I still vividly recall one HazMat training session in which our "trainer" proudly proclaimed that he was a TERRIBLE multi-tasker, but that he felt that his tunnel vision was a real strength.  No forest in HIS trees, thank-you-very-much. This was a real epiphany for me at the time. No-- not that it made me respect him (every PhD in that room-- which was most of us) basically was hiding the fact that we had all just SNORTED in unison), but that it made me realize that he was serious. He really felt that this made him a superior being to those of us "big picture + details" people. I'm guessing that "leadership skills" probably don't mean the same things to all people, either.
Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,181
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Organically learning... do you mean people somehow just figure out how to be good leaders by trial and error? I would submit that that isn't necessarily so. Not just trial and error, but observation and direct experience from the other end, too. You can observe others in leadership positions, see how effective their methods appear to be, and see if that's something that might be effective for you. And when you're being led, what factors make you want to follow this leader? Which ones make you want to ignore them? IMO, there's some good research that can help us make sense of some of the "soft stuff." I say this having had both hands-on learning experiences and camps/courses/books that supplemented those experiences. I agree, I just think it needs to be handled differently when presented to 12yos, because this is an age group where rebellion and hormonal changes are beginning in earnest, and social skills are definitely in the "emerging" state. It would probably be best to teach this age group leadership skills without explicitly saying so. I agree. Labmom, I'd try to view this entire experience as a learning experience for both you and your DD. It's good that you rescued her from a situation that was beyond her ability to manage/fix, but also (maybe?) some good can come from her having seen and experienced it. This is where I've encouraged DD to go Jane Goodall with other human beings and group dynamics. She winkled out what that mean girl dynamic was all about in all its guises rather quickly by doing that. That's been an ENORMOUSLY valuable thing for her. That really has made for great leadership skills for her. 
Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 599
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Wow that outline is great...so if those things were being taught and modeled in a club, or organization, or group with a mission, task, or project that everyone was invested in...then perfect.
So scouts, robotics, environmental or civic group, charity, or work committee...perfect places to work on these things. Even family meetings planning something.
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,181
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This is where I gratuitously mention 4-H. 
Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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Joined: May 2014
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 2,498
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So scouts, robotics, environmental or civic group, charity, or work committee...perfect places to work on these things. Even family meetings planning something. And Destination Imagination.
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 848
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And FFA if you're in a school district that offers it.
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