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I noticed a lot or new names that have joined recently. What Gifted Issues are you facing? How did you find this forum? What do you want to hear more about?

Welcome,
Trinity

I'm very new here although I was active in the past on the baby center gifted board. My son is newly 8.

The biggest issue I am facing is trying to find ways to support my son while at the same time not undermining the school's positions. He is not a poster child for a school gifted program. He generally refuses to do his work accurately or neatly. He could care less about pleasing the teachers and sees no reason to spend most of his day in school since it is BORING!

He has been independently tested twice as profoundly gifted once at 4 and again at 7 but due to his school performance is not a candidate for the gifted program. (Not that a pull out would work anyway. He would never do the double work.) He has terrible asynchronous development issues and has been diagnosed as 2x SPD (sensory seeker type.) He is not a candidate for acceleration due to his lack of emotional and social maturity.

He is currently in a private school but lacks interaction with both age and skill peers.

Reading these threads has helped me to see that many of the steps we are taking now are ones that others have tried with apparent success or at least not noticable harm. I look forward to learning more about your issues and what has worked and not worked for the rest of you as we try to take things a day or a month at a time right now.

Hi Elh0706,

Welcome! Wow - it sounds like we have gone down a similar path, although my son was able to fight he way to the point where he was ready for an acceleration by age 10.

He was helped by some of the things at his old school -
1) 2 years of a friendship club, run by the school psychologist
2) 6 months of OT, both private half hours once a week, and twice weekly small group at his public school.
3) Starting a musical instrument
4) gifted summer camp
5) hanging out with other gifted children, who we met through Davidson's YSP
6) Learning to Type!

My son was also a "no extra work" kind of kid. I think a lot of it was a totally broken heart. Is homeschool or a more responsive private school on you radar? I have heard of private schools where each child attends each subject at their challenge level. I agree that the pull-out program doesn't sound like a good resource for your son.

I didn't follow your meaning on: He is currently in a private school but lacks interaction with both age and skill peers.

Is he in a solo classroom?

Advice: Is there One subject that he could do single subject acceleration in? or opt out of the school program and do an individual project instead?

Who are your favorite Experts? What are you reading?

Best Wishes,
Trinity

I have been to this site dozens of times over the last two months, and finally decided to join. I have two boys, R is 7 and recently identified as gifted, and soaring academically. J is 9, and also a straight A student, and although J technically meets the criteris for "gifted", he is underachieving big time. We are struggling with how to handle how different the boys are. R was recently given the option of moving up a grade, which we declined (he is in 2nd), only because we are moving in a few months anyway. The move gives us the opportunity to reinvent our school situation. We think we are moving to Fairfax County, Va (military), where R will qualify for the highly gifted level 4 service...anybody familiar with this program? Words of advice? J is our social, well adjusted one, who is very easily influenced by those around him...So do we go public school (level 3) or private (which we are in now). The private school, has done well by both of them so far, but even the principal sees that the boys have outgrown what they can offer. They are supplementing R, and doing a great job, but even if we were not moving, it would be time to re-evaluate....any input on parenting two completely different, but both gifted kids would be appreciated...frankly just knowing I am not alone in my worries, would be great...

Hi Cricket,

Welcome! Isn't it strange to suddenly come upon a resource that one never imagined could exist?
I'm glad that we fit "well enough" to inspire you to join in the conversation.

Can you say more about J, and what clues you get that he is "underachieving." That word covers a lot of territory!

Good luck with the move, I know that that will be tough on all of you. Perhaps the stress will be an opportunity for J to turn more familyward and inward, in a good way?

I don't know about the levels or the local schools, but I wonder why J would not qualify for the level 4 service, with his straight As?

Will the military connect you with families who have children of similar age and ability in Fairfax County who could give local information and also serve as a role model for J?

Have you make contact with Virginia's Gifted Association? http://www.vagifted.org/

I wish you all the best,
Trinity

Hi Trinity,
Thanks for the reply...mmm..more about J. He is one of those kids who is really easy going and happy, which is great, but it also means he does the bare minimum to get by...what I mean by underachieving, is that he feels guilty that his grades come so easily to him, so he tends to play down his intelligence around his friends.On the flip side, if he is around other kids like him, he tends to rise to the occasion, which is why we are sooo looking forward to reinventing the school situation.

I am new to all this stuff, but J is in the 130-140 iq range, which according to the district, means he needs a gifted classroom, but not nec. a school for the gifted (level 3), where R is in the 140+ group needing a special school (level 4). I am not sure I agree with all this, but we are still on a exponential learning curve here...

I have been in touch with the school district, who will help us evaluate both of them, which is a positive first step.

The military is no help in this situation, in fact the "exceptional family member program" which is a great program for military families, only deals with learning disabilities, and does not classify gifted kids as needing any special services!

..but they are trying to get us to DC, which was our request given the school options...

nice to meet you.
cricket

What about toddlers? I've been searching high and low in my community and surrounding areas for a program (academic and physical) for my little 2 yr old son, G. Of course as his parent, I think he's special for his age, but others (teachers and administrators at his daycare), including pediatrician and strangers at parks and playgrounds who tell me he's very advanced for his age. To me, he seems average, but within the past two weeks, he's been correcting me! For example today while driving and he's sitting behind me in his carseat, I belched, and i looked in the rearview mirror and told him, "oh, WE should always say excuse me when we belch, right G?" and he replied, "no mommy, not 'we' only you, you belched, not me." I'm still feeling kinda freaked out by that intelligent response... and there have been others too... and I feel like he's jumping leaps and bounds in every direction... i'm not sure what else I can do to foster his capacity and worried that I should look towards private programs, but nothing for his age group, literally, he has to be at least 3 to be accepted into any decent program. Though he already counts up to 30, in a parallel path, I'm introducing him to a clock and how to tell time, he knows "the in between spaces means minutes" and he can sing several songs, can manipulate a computer mouse, main keyboard keys, and switch computer screens to get where he wants to go to... He also prefers to play with older kids, and loves engaging in conversations with adults (now in 10-12 word sentences) well, does any of this sound above average?

Mummy to G, whose first word at 10 months, was "oval"

Hi Trini04,
As far as Toddlers go I have some pretty strong opinions, but here there are...
1) Your first job is to document. Pick up a copy of Dr. Deb Ruf's Losing our Minds, gifted children left behind, and start making notes, video's etc.
2) Your second job is to enjoy your little tyke. Spend your time doing what is fun for the two of you. You don't need to foster his capacity, or get him into a preschool, unless he seems to want it. Let him lead. Consider adopting an "no lying to the kid" policy.
3) On the side, start reading whatever books are in your library system on Gifted and on Homeschooling. Get involved with your state Gifted Association. Also - model yourself as a person who has intellectual interests and pursues them.
4) Don't force him to play with agemates unless he wants too. Seek playdates with kids of a wide range of ages.
5) think seriously about what you want your family policy on TV/computer games to be. There are pluses and minuses.

Best wishes,
Trinity

Hi Cricket,
I like your observations about underachievement - be sure to share them with the school district. I would try to spend some time at the level 4 school at J's age level, and see if you think he could do the work. compare it to the gifted classroom. What precent of the day would the Level 3 school have J spend in the gifted classroom?

Personally, I'd rather have my child struggling to get B+/A- than breezing through with As, although struggling to get As would be the best. Of course it's a drag to be in a class that you don't have a prayer of keeping up in, but I'm not convinsed that tests like the WISC IV are that good at seperating 135s from 145s.

It may well be worth it to get privatly paid for IQ tests.

Too bad the military doesn't have a overt network. I'll betcha a dollar that there is a network out there, just not advertised. Keep asking sweetie. They probably just call it something weird like, "Parents of Children without bellybuttons."

Here's another way of viewing things - Read up on the Briggs-Myer's personality type. I'll bet it will ring a lot of bells about the differences between the boys, and how that relates to your relationships with them.

Very nice to met you to,
Trinity

Hi
I found this by searching for info on my nephew. Our situation is a bit different than most. My neice ( who is like my child ) and her husband adopted 2 children from Korea. They both are exhibited signs of being gifted. We are a very close knit family.
The problem is with my neices son Cooper. He just turned 4. He is in pre-school 2 hours- 2 days a week. The teacher has told my neice he does not interact with the other kids and they are having problems getting him to respond to them and the kids. He prefers to play by himself. They want to have all kind of testing to see what HIS problem is. Now at the start of school he was doing fine, this has just started recently. we have made an appoint with his dr to talk about things before we do the testing. My opion is he did all that they have to offer and he is bored, they told us they had to move him around at story time and quiet time because he talks to much. He has been talking since he was 9 months old, complete senteces by 12-14 months. He can reason, he interacts at home fine, he plays great with his sister. He is timid and shy and very immature for his age. I think he is just so different then the other kids and they do not know how to deal with him. I believe they think he has some type of learning/emotional disability not that is is very advanced intellectually. We do not even know the right questions to ask and if we should do the testing at all. I am sorry this is so long.
Thanks

Hi Fostcry -
Cooper sounds very sweet. I do have some thoughts!
1) Check out Deb Ruf's book and do some "home assesment" first. There are gifted kids who don't show up from her perspective, but if Cooper does fit - well then you know that -
2) any testing you have done should be done by someone with lots and lots of experience with gifted kids.

My son was also a "perfect" student at every placement all along the way - for exactly 4 weeks. After he had absorbed all the new information, we got to see what was really going on!

I think one of the key things is to talk to Cooper about how it is in school. OTOH, It took my son years to have enough insight into himself to look back at kindergarden and say, "Mom, I finally figured out what was going on in kindergarden - I was bored out of my skull!" He couldn't have told me anything more than - I hate it, I want to be with you.

Cooper may be enjoying "studying" the other children from a distance. I would still pull him, because I don't want to encourage this kind of relationship with other people. Did I mention to please get him out of there, if only for a month or two until things get sorted out.

Some of the mom's here have been successful getting the kids placed with older kids. If there is a Montessori style preschool that will use mixed age classrooms that might work.

As to the question of "maturity." I've been asking around, and the scientists doen't use that word in their work at all. Even Susan Assoline of the "Iowa Acceleration Scale Manual" fame (another great book to buy - an investment!) says she didn't put "maturity" into the scale because it's not measurable and doesn't seem to matter.

I would guess that your Cooper isn't immature for his age, although he may be less mature than his intellect-age. Here's why - Imagine yourself in a strange environment, that is too loud and too busy and makes no sense. There are kids around, but you are unable to make contact with them, they seem to have something wrong with them, or you, you aren't sure. Wouldn't you cling to whatever adult you could find? At least they can talk! See where I'm heading with this?

Best wishes -
Trinity

Hi
Thanks for the reply. Right now we are so confused. We want to do whats best. We have an appoint with his dr. We feel this is a good place to start. His teacher does not agree! His doctor also recommended the montessori school also. We will also check out the book you recommened. I am sure we will have alot of questions, I hope that is okay?
thanks

frostcry -
Where does the teacher want you to start?
When you say "his dr." do you mean the pediatrician?
We are here. We will answer all the questions we can. There is about 100 years of parenting gifted children on this forum, so Ask Away!

Trinity

HI
The teacher wants him to test with child outreach/ early intervention. She said the pediatrician only see's him for a few min. at a time. She also suggests that Cooper adds another day of school. We were not going to send him to preschool at 3 but he wanted to go. He was 2 1/2 and asked if he could go to school, I told him he has to learn to do " Potty" first, I thought this was a good answer as he had no interest in this. But as usual Cooper amazed us all by using the potty that night and was completely trained in a few days. He was so happy he could go to school. I think I am afraid of the testing.
Do not get me wrong, if there is something that early intervention testing shows we would certainly make sure he has what he needs. We just want to do what is right for Cooper. He is such a unique young man.
When My niece and I over to Korea to bring him home, his foster mom told my neice that Cooper was so excited and anxious to meet her he did not sleep all night. We all laughed, thinking that she was joking as he was not yet 4 months old. There has been many times since then that has proven she knew what she was talking about.
I think I am most afraid of the testing , he just turned 4 in Feb. I do not want him " Labeled " . I do not know if Cooper is gifted or not, but I do know that he is not like many other kids. We do feel that the teachers do not know what to do with him because he is not like the other kids.
Thanks

Post deleted by Mark Dlugosz

Hi Frostcry.
I wanted to chime in as an Occupational Therapist about the teacher wanting Cooper tested by Early Intervention services. I would AVOID this as the team who would do that testing is trained to find pathology in young children. Technically EI services are only until the age of 3 anyway. So you'd be looking at testing through the public school system. I would strongly encourage any testing be done privately FIRST, by the psychologist of the parents' choice, who specializes in assessing gifted children.

While Cooper might in fact have some issues that could be addressed to help his overall function and social skills, there may actually be nothing "wrong" with him at all - he is just gifted and perhaps profoundly so. He needs to be assessed by people who truly understand gifted children. And you are not likely to find that in the public school system or EI system of testing. In my opinion, anyway!

Hi
Thanks for the input.
It would be testing with the public school child outreach ( I believe that is what it is called now ). For some reason I am afraid of the testing. I do not think there is anything " wrong " with him. I think this is just the beginning of a long school experience where they do not know what or how to work with him, because he is not usual. We as a family want to do and give him everything he needs toi keep him healthy, happy. Now his sister is just as intelligent if not more so but she does not have the same emotional issues. She is not shy or moody.
Thanks for the info and comments. Right now We are trying to gather any and all info to try to make the best dhoices.

I would have a lot of concerns about having a child tested simply because he doesn't like interacting with kids his own age. How does he respond with older children? My son is only 16 months, but hasn't been around age mates since he was 8 months old. Anytime the class (he is in daycare) it within 3 - 6 months of his biological age - things go down hill quickly. When he is placed in a setting with children 6 - 12 months older than he is - he thrives. My son was almost labeled as "agressive" until he was moved to the higher age classes, now he is simply an active toddler who participates fully in Spanish class, music class, art and story time. These are activities average 12 - 18 month olds don't necessarily thrive in. However, if we had left him with age mates I'm sure we would have been referred to a psychologist due to his "emotional issues".

I would suggest Cooper experience different environments first and see if his behavior is consistent. Only then would I even consider independent testing.

I definitely agree with independent testing as well. I have a niece whose teacher tried to identify her as ADD/ADHD and she was referred to the school psychiatrist. My sister had her privately evaluated an the Dr. said she was simply bored in class - she was very bright and the work was simply below her cognitive ability. The teacher was actually upset my niece wasn't put on medication - she had 100% success with gettign kids identified as ADD/ADHD when testing was done through the school.

Hi frostcry -

you say:
For some reason I am afraid of the testing. I do not think there is anything " wrong " with him. I think this is just the beginning of a long school experience where they do not know what or how to work with him, because he is not usual. We as a family want to do and give him everything he needs toi keep him healthy, happy.

I say - I followed the school reccomendations at it was exactly as you fear, and that kind of thing goes on the kid's "permanent record" - the paper one and the one in the minds of the parents and the teachers.

It doesn't help and it is likely to hurt. Debbie has been inside the system - listen to her.

I also think that sbtmom makes some very good points. An easy thing to do is set up a playdate with some older kids and observe. If you go for testing, be very sure it is with someone who is highly familiar with testing gifted kids.

Best Wishes,
Trin

Hi
We are not doing any testing until we meet with his pediatrician, which is in 2 weeks. My niece made an appointment with him to get his views. We do trust him, he is young with small kids of his own.
Cooper does do play dates, most of the time he does play on his own but it never seemed unusual. He went to gym classes & after a couple of classes he was excited to go . He also takes Tae kwon do , 3 days a week, he does great but the classes are alway's different. He interacts with his sister fine. They play well together. He rarely plays with toys. He does like books and the computer.
I do want to say that I feel so much better after reading all the post and articles.
Thanks all

Trinity,
I Apologize for being so tardy in my response.

DS is in a very small montessori program with about 5 elementary aged students and about 20 preschoolers. He is one of the oldest in the school. This is why he lacks contact with his age peers.

Second, his interests are very broad. We are currently encouraging his desire to learn Chemistry and marine biology with books and some help from a local college Professor. He has an amazing fantasy life full of raptors and dragons that interact with him and each other in a very detailed and involved way. He is currently dictating to me their stories and I'm typing them in to the computer.

Third, I read everything I can find. Hoagies has been a primary source of information as well as SENG. I've read just about everything I can find on the web or in the bookstore.

I'll try to give more details another time.

Hi Elh0706,

No need to appologise. Raising these kids is tiring.

Montessori - how far above grade level do they have him in his strength areas? Some Montessoris are terrific about letting the kid really go far in his strength area - some are not. Can they help him integrate his interests into his school work?

Does your son get to be with peer for afterschool activites?

Have you applied to Davidson's Young Scholar Program. I think you would like it.

Has he seen the Dinotopia Books? They are so beautiful!

Best Wishes,
Trinity

Trinity,
If DS was willing to show the school what he does at home in his schoolwork, they would advance him as far as need be up to college level work. However, Ds does one thing at home and another at school so he is currently only advanced about 6-12 months in curiculm. The school's policy is that DS can be advanced as quickly as he wishes as long as he accurately completes all of the work in each section. DS is not willing to do "more" work a day to get through the books faster even though he understands that he will like the later work better.
Because of our work schedules, Ds is at his school for before and after care from 7:30 Am to 5:00 PM. Several nights a week, we go to the gym after picking him up. They have a wonderful kid's court area with lots of different activities including ball pits, jungle gym mazes and lots of open floor with baasketball hoops and wiggle cars. There are usally several children within in a couple yeras of him there at the same time. Since the membership is always changing , he doesn't get to make close friends but always has fun playing with whoever is there.
I want to apply to the Davidson Institute, but will have to get DS retested. I'm in the process of trying to find a good evaluation center with experience in testing gifted underachievors. DS does not like anyone to know how "smart" he is. He also gets bored quickly with the testing process and starts trying to come up with inventive answers. Previously, when he was tested, we were told that his scores were at least 20 lower than they should be because of his test taking attitude.

Ah well, Now they want to put him on Drugs for ADHD...

Hi, I'm new and looking forward to posting here. I just registered this morning. I found this forum while looking up info for gifted kids on the internet.

My issues are just getting started. I have a very bright 9 yo. She has not been officially identified as gifted. Both my husband and I are very smart and she always just seemed normal to us. Her school achievement tests from 2nd grade were both very high 99% (math on ISAT (Illinois) verbal on OLSAT) and then oddly lower 70% (math on OLSAT, verbal on ISAT).

She was never identified to even be tested for her schools gifted program. She did test into accelerated math, though. When the kids tested this year for the gifted program, she came home in tears saying "All of my friends have tested and I know I'm just as smart, why can't I?" I called her teacher and she said that when the ISAT scores come out from my daughter's 3rd grade testing (Illinois was very late!), they would make a determination. Well, the test scores were all 99th percentile. She just tested for the gifted program yesterday and now we're waiting.

So now I kind of feel like I failed her. Reading all of the information on gifted kids makes me realize she must be gifted. I missed so much. She had almost all of the toddler milestones. She can't stand to wear anything even slightly uncomfortable, all tags must be cut out. She reads voraciously, collects and catagorizes everything. Any unfairness with friends or worldwide is a cause for tears and activism.

I'm currently looking for resources, summer programs, etc. I'm considering having her do out of level testing next year.

I'm so pleased this forum is here. Thanks.

Hi TJS -

Welcome to the world of Gifted. You are giving me a perfect excuse to write about what I was hoping to write about anyway. I'm at work, and about 10 minutes ago a little girl and her mom completed their visit. Once they left, all the staff said - "Wow - she's only four, she's so smart!"

The girl had been counting to 100, chatting with everyone, and learning like a sponge. Her mom was doing the "gifted denial suffle" saying things like - "she's such a chatter box" and "she loves to show off in front of people."

LOL - we've all been there haven't we? We know that there is something unusual about the way people respond to our kid, so we make comments to try to smooth the way.

I was ready to dive right in.
"When does she start Kindergarden?"
- in the Fall. She wearing me out with questions.
"Is she reading yet?"
- no, praised be.
"Good, that will give her something to do in school. If she reading chapterbooks by the end of Kindergarden, come back and let me know - I've been through it with my son. he was lucky too, and wasn't reading until the end of first grade, but the mind is still moving at that speed and reaching for everything."
- ok. ((face shows Mom realizes that this could easily happen))
"One of the main advices I wish I had gotten when my son was this age, was to praise Effort and Curiosity, not the gap between what she is, and the age-based expectations. The gap is just how she is, Effort and Curiosity are choices that need to be encouraged. Too much attention for 'how you are' gets hard on kids."
- You know I never thought of it that way. Thanks for telling me. If I had know, I would have done that sooner. That make sense.
"You and me both! This kind of thing happens with very little warning. The baby just arrives and you've become "Alice in Wonderland. But I'll be seeing you over the years, just let me know what's on your mind."

Now I'll bet you are wishing someone had had "the talk" when your dd was 4 - but to my shame, I must admit, that my best and most trusted friend told me what was going on when my ds was in first grade, and even though he was suffering greatly and openly by second grade, I didn't believe her, or follow up. Well I did "hint around" to the teachers, who assured me that "underchallenge" was most definitly NOT his problem.

Why did I trust the teachers over my oldest and wisest friend?

Denial.

Why will I continue to beat myself up about it forever?

Perfectionism. (Actually I've come a lonnnnng way on this one.)

So I say, welcome to the club! As you learn more, try to forgive yourself, if only to model for your daughter how to overcome perfectionism.

Now lets turn our attention to the future - What's on your mind so far? Have you though about private testing? Have you though about summer camp? What's your favorite Gifted Book?

Love and More Love,
Trinity

Thanks so much, Trinity! I have been in denial and you're right, I do need to move on.

I am considering private testing, although from what I've read we're past the ideal age. I'm sort of waiting to see what the school does. Do you think that's a mistake?

For summer, I have her doing a week at the local animal shelter (she loves animals), a science camp at Illinois Math and Science Academy (IMSA) and various girl scout camps (several at Fermi lab.) I looked into some of the CTD stuff at Northwestern, but I think we're going to hold off this year. We live in the western suburbs of Chicago, so there is much available.

She did the IMSA camp last year and it was the only camp she ever LOVED. She walked out of there the first day asking how she could go to school there. Of course, being in denial, I just skirted the issue afraid of giving her false hope. Ugggh!

No books yet. Do you have any suggestions?

Suggestions ----
First go to Hoagiesgifted.org, and then go to amazon.com through there.
Then look for Carolyn K's lists:
Hoagies' Gifted List for Parents or
Hoagies' List for Parents of Exceptionally Gifted Children

see what interests you....
or try the article section of the Davidson Gifted Database: http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/browse_by_topic_articles.aspx

It all depends on what's uppermost in your mind at the time.

BTW - sounds like your summercamp plans are excellent. I also like the talent search idea. At this stage in the game it seems to me that the main questions I would be focusing on are -
1) How unusually gifted is my child - is it reasonable to expect that the school proram will meet her needs? Talent searches and IQ tests are the main way to sort this out. (How many hours/week is the gifted program? 2 hours a week may be fine for a kid who is on the "just like everyone else" side of gifted. Each program is different, but most of them are aimed at the top 5-3% not the 1 out of 1000 type kid.)
2) How happy is my child in her current situation? How much is she happy because she is "good at blending in?" Is she able to "get a lot of milage out of the regular work because she embelishes them?"

Seems like given your proximity to CTD, an educational assesment would be a fast way to bring yourself "up to speed" on how giftedness affects your daughter, and "atone" for past denial. It will give you a baseline for your own perceptions of how to parent your daughter. If the money isn't an issue, what would stop you from making the phone call. Interesting question, isn't it?

Love and More Love,
Trinity

Great suggestions, Trinity.

Asking myself the questions you posed made me feel better and really helped to clarify my thinking. For the most part my daughter is happy. She has always said she doesn't feel challenged in school, but she is very happy socially. She's flourished socially this year, but now that I think about it, it's because she is in a class with the gifted cluster students.

She's an embellisher when she wants to be (if the subject really interests her), but typically not. I don't think she's the 1 in 1000, but I don't know--and I suppose that's why I should have her privately tested. I'm definitely going to have her take the EXPLORE test.

I'll take a look and see about books and I'll go through Hoagies.

Thanks again, Trinity. You've helped me tremendously.

TJS

Best Wishes TJS -
I don't think 9 is "too old" for getting useful information out of an educational assesment. I'm glad to hear that she is happy and fitting in, although for females that's also cause to "get out the magnifing glass" because we females tend to be overly accepting of our situations.

I just looked up IMSA! looks like they have Saturday programs also. See if you can mingle with the parents a bit, as they might have local leads for you.
http://www2.imsa.edu/programs/kidsinstitute/current_programs/current_programs.html

Big Smile!
Waving Wildly!
Trinity

Hi, I have two kids: a daughter, age 8 and a son, age 4.5. DS is in a private K right now, but will have to repeat K in public school next yr. due to a late birthday (Nov.) He recently tested at 99.9 percentile on the WPPSI-III. I am concerned that he will be bored next year since he is already reading and doing arithmetic. Our school doesn't offer much in the way of gifted services until fourth grade.

DD is most likely gifted as well, although she has not been tested. She reads for pleasure at a sixth grade level and easily catches on to math concepts. She is happy in school, however, so we haven't pursued testing. DS is a different story, though. When he is bored he really resists going to school. He doesn't interact much with his age-mates although he plays beautifully with DD and her friends.

Can anyone tell me more about the Davidson Young Scholars program? Do they intercede with schools on a student's behalf?

Hi Cathy A,

Young Scholar's Program is terrific in that they do give you a phone or email ally called a Family Consultant who offers resource to you and the school. They have lots of ideas and experience about what has worked with other public schools. Another benifit is that they maintain email lists of other parents of similar children, so if you have hesitations about grade skipping, or subject acceleration, or "content daughters" you can ask a question and get about 35 different perspectives at a time. They also have a team of specialists that can help with various issues, such as perfectionism, disipline, ADHD, etc. through e-seminars and private phone calls. All in all, I would say it's been a big help for my family ---- even though the "intercesion" with the public school, which helped a lot, but didn't in the end, seem like enough. We did switch to a private school, got the grade skip, and DS10 is having his best year ever - emotionally, behaviorally and intellectually as well!

Here's a q for you, dear -
If you could keep him at the private school, would they send him to first grade next year? Would they send him to 2nd for reading and math if there were no first graders to be in groups with him?

I do reccomend testing DD as well. You have no idea the number of "I told you sos" I get to give parents of girls who eventually get their "not as gifted appearing" girls tested. If I had a dollar for each one, well, paying for private school would still be a pain, but maybe he'd have a shiny new laptop. ((wink))

Best Wishes,
Trinity

Hi Trinity!

DS' private school only goes up to K. I have called the other private schools around here and they will not even take him for K next yr. because he won't be 5 in Sep. Their reason? "He won't be 'age ready'." I really think the public school is our best option here.

I'm holding out for DD taking the CogAT for the GATE program next year. It's free, although I realize it is not the best test for gifted identification. Testing DS privately was expensive! I'm also considering CTY talent search for her when her state testing scores come in this summer.

Hi Cathy A -

Sounds like a start for your DD! I also like CTY talent search, as it gives information about how your DD does in relation to other gifted children. You can use parental nomination if you don't feel like waiting for the state testing scores, which are sometimes depressed due to the unengaging nature of the material for some kids.

Too bad the private schools are so close minded! How Frustrating. Would you consider Full Grade skip for DS? Homeschooling?

Whatever happens - Best Wishes
Trinity

Trinity,

According to state law here in CA, DS would not be allowed to enroll in first grade until he is 5. So he would have to start K and then switch to 1st in Dec. after he turns 5. This could only happen with special school board approval (very iffy).

I am thinking that it may work better to have him do K (and get used to the new school) while doing EPGY math and reading at home. Then maybe we'll look at putting him in 2nd grade the following year, since 1st grade repeats so much of K. Also, I think that a full day may be a little long for him next year.

Cathy

C -

I like the idea of skipping 1st, but I wonder exactly what he will be expected to get out of going to K.....If he's getting his "real academics" at home, what can he be expected to get out of going to K at all? Better to wait a year and join 2nd then?


((shrug)) My son just hated school, and got better and better at putting up with it, but at a very high price.

Have you talked to anyone at the CA gifted association about any possible ways to get around the law, if you should so choose?

T

Sigh. I don't know. They promise differentiated instruction in the public K class... If it's really unacceptable, I can always pull him out. I'm just going to wait and see how it goes.

I've been back and forth over these questions many times. There just doesn't seem to be a really good solution.

I've also heard from the principal that she doesn't look on grade skipping with a friendly eye. I am working on finding a 2nd grade teacher who is amenable to accepting DS if he skips 1st. I've found out the hard way that if the receiving teacher is not happy about the grade skip, they will make life hell.

Cathy

Oh Cathy!
I hope the person with the difficult receiving teacher wasn't you! Although even a bad "transition year" may still be worth it if the rest of the year are better, yes?

I hope I'm not being too hard on you....actually I wish that you weren't being just as hard on yourself. That's why I'm saying all this out loud, so you can get frustrated with that pesky Trinity who keeps asking the difficult questions and not with your own self for asking the same difficult questions.

I know that it sounds like you can try and always pull him if it doesn't work, but really - that plan means that he will have failed, and have learned that Mom doesn't really know what she's doing and that he will be visibly suffering, and that school is stupid, and that if something is unpleasant, Mommy will say he doesn't have to do it. None of that sounds appealing, does it?

As for the in class differentiation, well that's all well and good for kids who like school, enjoy playing with agemates, and are in the top 5 to 2 percent of students academically. None of this sounds like your son, yes?

You asked about the benifits of the YSP - one of them is the support of other parents who have BTDT when one embarkes on a path that is totally different from what all the local friends and family and school staff have every heard of. These unusual kids need unusual educational paths, and it really helps to hear about what others have tried and how it worked.

Please pardon the bluntness, I really hope that everything works out beautifully, and that I'm super wrong about everything. Whatever you decide, we want to hear about the good times and the bad ones,
Trinity

Trinity,

You're not being too hard on me! I don't take your comments personally--in fact it's relieving to discuss these issues with someone. My best friend has a son the same age as DS, but she is considering holding her son out for a year because he is not ready for K. It feels very awkward to discuss this with her.

I know what you mean about pulling him out having negative side effects. I would really only do that as a last resort (i.e. leaving him in would be MORE damaging.)

There's more to the equation though. This is a very crowded district. If DS doesn't attend K next year, he will lose his priority and could be overloaded to a different school. This is a totally inhumane process practiced by our district where the "extra" kids are bounced around from school to school every two weeks until all the classes are absolutely full. It's more "efficient" that way you see, because they don't have to pay any teachers to teach classes that are only partly full.

Maybe we just need to move

What????????

Deep breath

I think if his friend is waiting an extra year it's great in some ways because you can say the same thing. Then next year you can try to find that magic 2nd grade teacher --- or by then he and you will love homeschooling so much that you'll be like - ((eyes rolling)) why did I even consider this for him.

As you say - you may not even be in the district by that time.

Sigh

Trinity

See what I mean? How damaged would he have to be before you pulled him? And for what purpose? Just so he can be like everyone else? He isn't. Not everyone is. That is how humans are. We vary. My homeschooling contacts say it is so much easier to get them before they have been damaged - you can always sent him later. Please don't let the priority list thing scare you out of doing what is right. You never know - perhaps the fartherer away school has the just right best friend sitting right there waiting for him in his future classroom.

Actually, are the individual children moved every two weeks. My DS would have loved that, actually! One of my early ideas was to rotate him through all the teachers so he wouldn't have a chance to get bored. (joking)

Bests -
Trinity

Well, I'm keeping an open mind. Who knows? Maybe there will be compatible kids in his class. Maybe his teacher will do right by him. I want to give the local school a chance. At the same time, I'm exploring other options so I'll be ready should the need arise.

Cathy

Cathy -
You are so far ahead of the game than I was. When my son was this age I was still in the thick of denail! Sure my son was bright, like all the other folks in my family and friendships, but he'd be fine, right?

You are in great shape, because when damage starts happening to your son, if he is vocal, then you will know what to do. When the school started noticing that something was "different" about my son in 2nd grade, it took years to get things right, because I went chasing butterflies in so many directions first! It really didn't dawn on me that school could be a dangerous and damaging place for a gifted kid when they get to be the top half percent or more extreme. The school thought that there was something wrong with him, so I believed them.

Also, some kids get to school and are so obviously advanced, that the parent doesn't have to fight that much. Lots of it depends on the child's personality. I think it's great that you'll be doing the EPGY at home.

Have you actually spent time observing in the various possible kindergarden classes? I know it's a risk, but if you phrase it as "I'd like to see for myself how my son's maturity level would be in a K classroom" as if you are thinking of Redshirting, perhaps it would not be a problem politically?

Best Wishes,
Trinity

Obviously, kindergarten and public school can go very badly for a highly gifted child. And you will need to be aware of that possilibity, but it can be a good experience.

I would like to be the voice of hope because it does not always go badly. We were extremely fortunate to have a fabulous kinder teacher when my son started school. By the second week, she had him signed up for the accelerated reading program, tested him on the STAR TEST and was taking him down to the library to check out 4th and 5th grade books. She gave him his own math notebook and assigned him problems that dealt with higher math concepts (prime numbers for example). She loved having a student who understood her jokes and made good ones of his own.

They had a special bond and still do. This year, in fifth grade, she invited him to be her aid for the last half hour each day, when his teacher needed to do remdiation with the kids in her class were behind. He was given the choice of working independently on his literature projects in 5ht grade or going to help in kindergarten and he jumped at the chance to help in kindergarten. I know we have been very lucky and many teachers are not like this, but we are in a pretty poor, small town district with a pitiful little gifted program. And then out of the blue we have these fabulous teachers. Who would have thought it possible?

So I guess my advice would be to keep an open mind and not assume either that everything will be fine or that it will necessarily go badly. We did visit the spring before and it made a difference. In fact the other kindergarten teacher (the one we did not pick) refused to let us visit and at that point we knew we would not request her. When I saw the teacher (the one we picked) at work, we knew she was a gem! We went into the fall feeling like we had done a good thing and we were right.

ACS - I'm so glad you posted here! I was thinking of you when I talked about kids who impress teachers. ((smile))
I think it's interesting that you did observe the various K teachers.

Thanks,
Trinity

I just learned of this board from a friend and Gifted Resource Teacher who suggested I read some posts after I sobbed in her office one day. I've read much I recognize already. I'm struggling with daycare/preschool options for a 2.5 year old. He appears to be gifted in many ways, but his developement is quite uneven. Each time he has a cognitive leap, we see a series of emotional storms. This has led to teachers throwing out labels such as ODD and concerns about his emotional growth. I'm wondering if other parents have experienced the same? Right now I am emotionally drained from advocating for and defending his needs for independence and creativity. He loves stories and loves to pick out letters and sounds but hates to participate in "circle time." He screams if he's asked to transition to another activity if he hasn't finished what he's engrossed in doing. I'd love to have some support on how to find the best fit for him and how to stay joyous about his creative gifts.

I'm Jen. Live in Texas. Writer and SAHM. My daughter, 8 (Nov.) qualified for GT at 7 yrs using acheievement tests (COGAT) and ITBS (Iowa I think it is). My son, 5 (6 in July) qualified for GT at 5 yrs 5 months taking the exact same tests as his older sister. These tests do not give us IQ and we haven't done further testing, yet. [We REALLY try not to compare but its been really difficult with basically no peers at their school; the closest one is a girl with significant socialization issues (possible Aspher's).]

One year after qualifying for GT, my DD was diagnosed as dyslexic, though my research says it's dyspraxia. She can read at 6th grade level, comprehend at 9th grade, but can't write or spell above 1st grade. The classroom teacher, language tester were both floored at her tests: "We've never seen anyone like this and honestly, aren't quite sure how to handle it."

My son has only been in school 180 days in his short lifetime and we'd been dreading those days since he was 8 months. You know how you can just tell their personality, especially the strong ones? He was 1 yr and the family saying was, "he's so intelligent and so charming, he'll either be a great leader or leader of a cult. *Use your powers for good, Luke* Hee Hee

We knew DS had mastered all "required" K material before stepping in the school but fear of being labeled "pushy" held us back. Then finally when the GT teacher tested him people believed us. She sat there glowing about him: "He did this thing; I've never had a student do this at any age. He'd explain to me each and every step as he was answering the question and WHY he was answering it that way. It was exhausting. I'm not sure what to do with him, as we've never had a Kindergartener qualify before."

Can you see our common issue between two VERY different children? The school has verbally admitting WE DON'T KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH THEM. So, I'm spending my summer researching so I can TELL THEM WHAT TO DO with my children. Sorry, I just have NO ONE to talk to about my concerns; even another GT parent has told me: "You only want to test him more so you/your husband can brag about how smart he is. WE focus on teaching our daughter to be a good, kind person" (implying that we don't)

And THIS is someone I trusted with my most private frustrations (how he started having toilet accidents mid-year b/c he was so upset, bored, whatever in K); how he's smarter than me and weaves his way around my rules until I'm dizzy, how much guilt I feel everytime I waste an afternoon letting them both veg on TV.

Look forward to reading, sharing, and hoping for good things with you all.

Hello! I found this forum via the last Genius Denied newsletter. Knowing what my child needs is my ongoing issue. Not many understand my DS. Not sure I understand nor provide "best" but I try. Having experienced and learned much over elementary years has taught me to start asking questions early .... but not certain I have it right.

I love to hear about the success other have found, great but especially the small every day joy and amazing insights that come "from the mouth (and minds) of babes"

Regards, Maryann

Texas is an interesting state. I believe that they will provide K12 homeschooling curriculum to any homeschooling family who wants it. They will also provide a grade skip to anyone who can pass their draconian tests. I would reccomend asking, in writing, that your son get thoses tests now, while in the lower grades. Have you connected with the state gifted association? Even if you don't homeschool, try connecting with other homeschooling parents on the idea that the most extreame kids are going to be disproportionatly represented in the homeschooling bunch. Lots of what you are asking will be told to you by the IQ tester you hire - the point isn't to have a number, the point is to get guidance for you and the school as to what "might" work.



Here's the story. The more you do, the less ownership the school takes. Request an IEP, again in physical hard copy, if that hasn't happend yet. They are responsible for her education. Keep reminding them or pull her out and homeschool. They have a state education board and professionals that they turn to, so play dumb and ask them, "Isn't there someone on a state level who supports schools when they don't know what to do?" Asking for them to put in writing that they can not met her educational needs may also help spur things forward, obviously this can be confrontational, so be sure to smile, act like they are your best friends, and continue to play dumb. "Of course your motto is: "Educate every child" so of couse you would want to help move things forward by giving me a little note that says what you just told me, dear.

Who knows? The state may end up paying a private tutor to come to your house and do school that way. I've never heard of it, but yes, they do have a responsibility to provide for kids with disibilities. Its a law. Your job is to be aware of your kids strengths and keep asking questions until they, at the very least, provide gradeskips for your son, and special ed. services for your daughter that also challenges her strengths.


I do know exactly the type of personality you discribe. Yes, personality has a lot to do with school fit.


Well, the first step in making a change is to admit our mistakes. Of course we don't want to look like pushy parents. I think that how we act matters a lot more than what we actually do. All that smiling and listening and nodding really helps. "Getting to yes" is a very good book on negotiation, in general.
There is a Davidson service called http://www.educatorsguild.org/
for schools. I would suggest that the school personel get in touch with them right away, because "of course" we know that you are committed to learning new things when the old things don't apply.

If you are in a position to spend the money on testing privatly, I would suggest that you put that on the summer agenda, start with DS if you have to stagger it, as his problems may not be mandated to be served by the school, and are possibly easily solved (by acceleration) in the short term. Read -
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0910707553...7553&creative=373489&camp=211189
for more info. Also at http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/iowa_accel_scale.htm

Another book you will find very helpful is -
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0910707464...7464&creative=373489&camp=211189


Re-Forming Gifted Education: How Parents and Teachers Can Match the Program to the Child (Paperback)
by Karen B. Rogers
Book Description
This book is a real eye-opener for educators and parents unfamiliar with the full body of research in the field of curriculum for gifted education. Many current programs for gifted students are not adequate. Other programs do not fit the needs of particular gifted children. Rogers uses a solid base to explain to parents and educators what is needed in both cases. Various types of acceleration and enrichment, as well as grouping practices, are examined. For each educational option, Rogers delineates what the current research says about the benefit or lack of benefit to gifted children.
Features:
* A sample inventory to determine strengths and weaknesses.
* Designing an educational plan to fit a child's academic and social needs.
* Explanations of current gifted education research.
* Benefits of gifted educational options.
* Recommendations for gifted education curriculum.

About the Author
Dr. Rogers is Professor in the Curriculum and Instruction Department at the University of St. Thomas, in St. Paul, MN. She has published over 80 articles on curriculum for gifted students. Her paper for the National Research Center on Gifted and Talented has been read by over 500,000 people worldwide.






OUCH! Yeah, we see this. My Sister in Law asked me, after attending a lecture on gifted ed together - "You spend a lot more time on this than I do. Is it that you kid is so much more gifted than mine, or just that I'm a lousy Mother?"
Way back then I was so naive. I talked about "school fit" and that it isn't about how gifted that child is, it's about meeting that child's learning needs. Now I would say - "Honey, could you please rephrase the question? What is it you are trying to find out?"


Ouch. ((hugs))


Read Sylvia Rimm. this doesn't have to happen! Don't let it continue! But yes, I have BTDT.


((shrug)) My guess is that you have some perfectionistic tendencies also? Time to wake up, give credit and blame where it is due, and start to show by example that how a person can possibly live in a wonderful but imperfect world. This may not make sense yet, but it will. You can not afford to lie to yourself that you are 100% in charge of the outcomes of your children. Yes you are powerful, but .....

So welcome to the forum. Keep us posted. We care, and won't get an attitude.

BTW, you may have noticed that spelling is a problem for me. So is my handwriting. But with typing and spell check, mostly no one knows. Except here, where, if there is spell check, I can't find it. I promise you that I have a good job and a good life, although there were some confusions along the way. HTH ((wink))

Love and More Love,
Trinity

So, I noticed a lot of new names that have joined recently.
What Gifted Issues are you facing?
How did you find this forum?
What do you want to hear more about?
Are you in the process of applying to the Young Scholar's Program?

Welcome,
Trinity

Now THAT'S an understatement.

We were offered the 1st grade test, but by the school counselor (whom we were seeing because of behavioral concerns related to boredom in K). When we "re-asked" the principal and GT teacher we were "poo-poo"'d [can't think of a better word] into "just lets see how he does next year, after all he's a July birthday. But yes, I do realize EVERYTHING gets more response in writing. Sadly, my husband and I would have to AGREE on giving him the test before pressing the school.
I have attended TAGT Parent & Teacher conference but have not joined. I use their website, Hoagies - constantly, and do a lot of searching Texas State law. I'm undecided on the usefulness of the organization. I'm not yet "into" legislation advocacy or lobbying [BTDT for Cancer Research, need a break!] and it seems to be TAGT's focus. Still, I'm aware of them and enjoyed meeting the other parents. I've also found a local GT Parent Support Group though not in my school district. Still NOT in my school district maybe the most helpful to avoid that "parent-rivalry" cr@p that goes on.

Thanks. I'll need that "explanation" to convince my husband to do it sooner rather than later.

It has and it worked for 2nd grade, but I've been told that in 3rd grade "all they do" is prepare them for TAKS (our stupid state testing invented by the lovely GWB). For the "normal" dyslexics (is that offensive? I'm sorry don't have another word right now) they need help READING the questions on the TAKS so they accurately demonstrate their knowledge. My daughter can read just fine. When they get to the written portion - 4th grade - then she might need help.
Perhaps I'll make a sign that says "They are responsible for their education" and post it on my front door so I see it every time I walk out the door to go talk to the school (less than 100 yards away. I LIVE inside the school zone!:))

Going to that TAGT Conference really helped me "get over that" mistake part. They'd ALL BTDT and then talked about being known in the entire school as "that mom" but then knowing they'd done the right thing when their 10 year old was at the University being mentored in astro-physics. I try to forgive us and move on. Funny or sadly or unfairly, it helps that I am small in stature, quiet in voice, and am known as somewhat of a shy but reliable parent volunteer (I volunteer in the library because a tight classroom full of noisy kids gives me panic attacks). So when I approach people they make assumptions on the strength of my "spine" so to speak. I can certainly play the innocent wallflower to my benefit in ways a 6' woman with a commanding presence could not. Still, often I must say and write 10 times to another "more commanding" parents 5. A squeeky, sweet wheel instead of a loud thundering pounding.
Again, will have to print out your reply and post it to my husband's forehead. I know in alot of ways he means well. He doesn't want to add to my burden (you'll see what I mean later). He also doesn't want to pressure his kids to be super geniuses. I keep telling him that HE isn't they just ARE, it's in their being, their genes. We probably both had/have it too. Mine for one was beat out of me by conformity, the race for grades, and slavery to playing the system. His was sent underground by boredom and a stubborn refusal to "play the system."

I digress (I do it alot, especially when I'm "like this")

Fortunately my older sister (10 years older) has boys staggered between my kids - 10 and 6. The oldest has the most trouble, ADHD, depression, difficulty reading in younger grades, but terribly advanced at math and science. Her youngest is gifted but so far doesn't show signs of LD. We can lean on each other, though we live in different states. We've created a pact not to let MOM know the details of their intelligence to avoid any "family issues". I do feel blessed.

I've read:
*Born to Rebel
*Easy to Love, Difficult to Discipline
*The Wonder of Boys (only 1/2 way through)
*How to Raise the Strong-Willed Child (I think that's it, I borrowed it from a friend.)
Everytime I go to the bookstore or scan Amazon I see more and more books that would help. Will add yours to the list of potential contenders.

We've come along way now that we've come to understand his need for COMPLETE order. We have "to-do" lists posted in the bathroom, in his room, on the fridge. I don't know if its that he can't remember what to do next, but more that he LOVES doing things 100% correctly. If there's no check list to "indicate" success, he gets scattered, frustrated, and ornery.

It makes a whole lot more sense than you probably even meant for it to. As I mentioned above (my husband not wanting to add to my burden and how I'm feeling "right now"), I was diagnosed bipolar a year ago. Oddly enough it's a wonderful relief to finally be getting help and to see the light at the end of the tunnel in possibly becoming the person I remember I was capable of being. (Ok, THAT was confusing).

Anyway, 1. I'm currently in a hypomanic phrase, thus the wandering subject matter, VERY long posts and wordy phrases. When I switch over to slightly depressed I'll give one word answers. 2. My children were, quite literally, IGNORED for two months a year go right before my breakdown and diagnosis. (Which only proves more their intelligence as they thrived despite me! It's probably why he taught himself to read at 3 years and 10 months... purse boredom!) So I have misplaced guilt there too. 3.In addition, I'm OCD and it usually expresses itself most during hypomaic phases. I'm productive, wordy, but yes ultimately EXTREMELY PERFECTIONIST to the point of wasting hours and days.

This is my personal struggle and cross to bear. I am just now learning to accept it as fact, get OVER it and "start to show by example that how a[an][imperfect] person can possibly live in a wonderful but imperfect world." Sometime I hope will ultimately help my kids cope (as I was not taught to cope) with their strengths, weaknesses, and the world's responses to them.

I do TRULY TRULY appreciate your heartfelt and sincere reply. Status hasn't changed much right now, except that we've been sending them to camps and grandma's to get away from TV. Also with my new hypomanic phase (was depressed until mid-July), we've got projects lined up (making solar system, human DNA model, art "creations", etc.) When I swing back, they get a bit more time with Discovery Channel, History Channel, Animal Planet, Dirty Jobs, Zooboomafoo, and Scooby Doo. Since we don't even OWN a video game machine, I'm lifting a bit of guilt off my shoulders that way too.
-Jen R

Hi Jen,
((hugs))
OK, so you are facing some extra burdens. You are learning to forgive yourself, and you are growing and changing. To me, that is "playing the hand you were dealt" which is about the best we humans can aspire to. ((high five))

So, Right under "They are responsible for their education" put another sign that says, "In this family, we play the hand we were dealt." Actually I would post the first somewhere where the kids (who are now reading, darn it) can't see as they are growning into being responsible for their own learning, and I don't want to let them off the hook. Maybe the bathroom mirror? Or somewhere near where you sleep, or wait for sleep at night?

It's great that you have figured out your son's need for order, and provided him with checklists. I like Flylady.org for inspiration in keeping an orderly environment. I have found that an orderly home improves everyone's behavior and mood.

Here's another book for the wish list: Misdiagnosis And Dual Diagnoses Of Gifted Children And Adults: ADHD, Bipolar, OCD, Asperger's, Depression, And Other Disorders by James T. Webb, Edward R. Amend, Nadia E. Webb, Jean Goerss, Paul Beljan, F. Richard Olenchak, and Sharon Lind
Physicians, psychologist, and counselors are unaware of characteristics of gifted children and adults that mimic pathological diagnoses. Six nationally prominent health care professionals describe ways parents and professionals can distinguish between gifted behaviors and pathological behaviors...


Have you read this article? http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/light_up_the_world.htm

You said:
Originally Posted By: Trinity
Request an IEP, again in physical hard copy, if that hasn't happend yet.

It has and it worked for 2nd grade, but I've been told that in 3rd grade "all they do" is prepare them for TAKS (our stupid state testing invented by the lovely GWB). For the "normal" dyslexics (is that offensive? I'm sorry don't have another word right now) they need help READING the questions on the TAKS so they accurately demonstrate their knowledge. My daughter can read just fine. When they get to the written portion - 4th grade - then she might need help.

I'm glad 2nd grade went well. As for 3rd, I believe that that is where the term "individualised" come in to play. I know that you believe this also, and I pray that your quiet sweet wheel will be enough to keep asking pertenient questions until the school remembers that they know this also. Maybe we should all be reading Plato for Scocratic tips on the are of asking questions.

As to getting DH on board with the testing and gradeskipping...well, I'm assuming that your district wouldn't do anything nowabout the gradeskipping, so focus on testing. I think it's time to explain to your DH that testing your DS will protect you from stress and isolation and protect DS from the dangers of pushing too hard or not pushing enough. Nothing like getting the right data when one is formulating an action plan to decrease stress. I would reccomend putting your argument in writing, and let a trusted friend look it over first so that it's logical, organized, and kind.

He is also going to need to do some reading to take the burden off of you trying to communicate the information to him. Here is the basic minimum that he needs to read to really get with you and not leave you struggling alone:

Iowa Acceleration Scale Manual: A Guide for Whole-Grade Acceleration (K-8) 2nd Edition
by Nicholas Colangelo
New: $21.75

Re-Forming Gifted Education: How Parents and Teachers Can Match the Program to the Child
by Karen B. Rogers
New: $21.75 33

A Nation Deceived: How Schools Hold Back America�s Brightest Students The Templeton National Report on Acceleration (free, download from this link!)
Acceleration is a powerful educational ally, but it�s a strategy that requires participation of parents as well as sensitivity to individual needs and circumstances. For that reason, this report is designed not only to persuade readers of the value of acceleration, but also to help schools administer acceleration programs effectively...

It may sound like alot, but Reforming Gifted Ed is more a manual, with lots of charts, to be used as a reference book. Also the Iowa Scale Manual, is mostly pictures, but an invaluable reference book, which although it says Acceleration right in the title, really focuses on all kinds of accomidation. The meat of the matter is Nation Decieved, and the best place to start. Full of logical facts and figures.


Be Well, Be Strong, and Enjoy!
Love and More Love,
Trinity

Hi,
I'm almost in tears here (wouldn't be the first time)! Maybe someone can help. I guess I should have signed up for this forum LONG ago. I have a son who will be in the 6th grade next year. He was identified as gifted in third grade. It was about the end of second grade when I started noticing lack of motivation. From that time on I have been in constant contact with my school regarding his situation.
There really isn't much they would do, because in our district if your child doesn't perform/test 2 grades levels below his current grade they don't qualify for "Special Ed" (there's probably a different name for it end of the spectrum).
In third grade, my son WAS put into the "gifted program" offered at his school. This was an after school program (ie, for an underachiever especially, MORE WORK!!!) They studied conservation, environment etc. He didn't enjoy it. I have discussed "differentiation" and "clustering" at "Gifted Meetings"
with the district (which do absolutely nothing, I think they have them only to make it LOOK like something is being done for our gifted students).
Finally, last year they did a full spectrum of testing (I was told by an outside professional that they were "good, quality tests"). He of course did average to above average on all of the tests (except for one). So once again this confirmed his lack of need for help. (according to the school).
He wasn't turning in "quality work in writing (ELA)" so there was a plan put into place to pull him out DURING class send him to the "learning center" (which of course has a stigma, especially for kids)and put him with a "tutor" to assist in this area (although I was mostly concerned about the fact that he CAN'T memorize his times tables!) He started seeing the tutor, she told me that he was an "excellent writer". She said "he writes better than most 5th graders" I was aware of this..he CAN do it, he just WON'T do it.
So now I have a son who is EXTREMELY unmotivated. He HATES everything about school. How am I supposed to get him into an "accelerated" program where he will be excited about learning
when he won't perform even the LOW level work he is currently assigned. I want to put him into some type of program that will meet his needs. I'm afraid he will only see this as "more work".
I have read pretty much EVERY book out there on this, underachievement, gifted, misdiagnosis, learning styles, brain research on how boys learn vs how girls etc. (I'm sure I haven't read them ALL..but an awful lot!) I need a starting point. Obviously the things I've tried in the past aren't working.
It's killing me to see my son fail. Not for me, but for him. He seems SO unhappy, he has extremely low self esteem, he NEVER tries anything new, and he gives up on everything. I believe this is because of the fact that he has never REALLY been successful at anything! (Due to the fact that he has never been challenged in school, I believe he has never felt true success, the rewards of working hard and achieving a goal.)
Can anyone help me with where to turn for an education for my son. Help with motivation. etc?
Sorry to write so much, it's hard to explain this situation with few words.

Holly,
I�m sorry that you are so distressed right now. My son is slightly more motivated in school, but I see how fragile that is. Meaningless and subjective work drains energy and drive!

I discuss the fact that his current situation is a means to an end. For us this means getting into a high school that has high criteria for admittance. He is currently going into sixth also. Actually, I am hopeful that sixth grade will be better than previous grades. It seems that the work is actually more meaningful and the teachers are very bright.

My advice is to validate what he already understands. A majority of what is required at school has very little to do with education and quite a bit to do with learning to shut up and color. The goal is to hang in there until he gets to a level where the learning is important. He has to play the game to advance to the next level.

I believe that giftedness in combination with idealism is a liability for our nation�s smartest children. Maybe if he knows you understand, he will find renewed drive.

Help! my son is 10 yrs old and been tested gifted since the 3rd grade. Our shcool although helpful but not effective. He has become so bored with school that he has become emotionly withdrawn from class."He wants to study Greek history" He has formed is own opininons about politics. We have been told that he reads and understands at a 8th grade level.
Sadly I am confused at the fact that when given the chance to go to a gifted school, he did everything in his power not to pass the admissions test so that he could stay with his friends.
I am afraid that due to my lack of knowlege on how to raise a gifted child that he might fall thru the cracks.
I sort of stunmbled on this web site and pretty impressed thus far hopefuly point me in the right direction.

thankyou

To Both Holly and Eric,
My advice is to find something that they do love, something that will create a spark of enthusiasm. That thing may not be school and it may never be school. I come from a family of highly gifted people who hated school, but went on to be successful as farmers, fisherman, sailors, pilots, and leaders in the community. They invent stuff in their basements that other people copy. They are happy adults. The thing that they have in common was that, even though, they hated and resented school, there was something that they did love. In most of their cases, they learned best by doing rather than watching or listening. They suffered through school, but came home and took apart engines or built model airplanes. There are other kids who love art, music, sports, studying subjects not taught in depth in school. There are kids who join ham radio clubs and others who join the society for creative anachronism.

I would encourage you to put getting them to like school on hold (if you have tried everything and its not working) and find something else in their life that might ignite a spark or love of learning and exploration. Make sure there is at least one thing that makes them tick that they have time and resources to explore--that will keep them sane. At least that what has worked for my brothers, father, and uncles.

Hi Eric and Holly,

first I love acs's advice about finding and nurturing that which they do love.

second, you don't say what level of gifted they are. Are they PG, as defined by the YSP enterance scores? It is worth it to find out if they are Ruf II or Ruf level IV! It makes a big difference. See:

Losing Our Minds: Gifted Children Left Behind by Deborah L. Ruf
Using gifted children as examples, Ruf illustrates five levels of giftedness, which parents will be able to estimate in their child by comparing developmental milestones...

or you can start with a web version at educationaloptions.com

http://www.educationaloptions.com/raising_gifted_children.htm


For example, Eric, if your son is offered a gifted school that caters to Level II, but he is Level IV, he is going to only have more busywork, that requires more time, but doesn't give him the "raw meat" of learning that he needs.

I would also reccomend finding a psychologist who can administer the SM-V, and has lots of experience with Gifed, or Highly Gifted kids, and can advise you. If you child is Ruf Level II there may be some local folks who can do this for you, if Ruf Level III or higher, then prepare to travel. There has been so little recognition of the difference that levels of gifteness make, and there is so much.

BTW - My son did't teach himself to read, and learned in first grade, and is still at least Ruf Level III, and in the Davidson YSP program...it was the quality of deep inquiry into the nature of life that should have tiped me off, but didn't.

Holly, it sounds like you like books, here's what I'm reading now: http://www.sylviarimm.com/uii.html

Why Bright Kids Get Poor Grades--and What You Can Do About It

By Dr. Sylvia Rimm

Special online price
SR-400S - 425 Pages - Paperback - $13.50

Guidebook-Underachievement Syndrome: Causes and Cures
(Not Pictured)

By Sylvia Rimm, Ph.D., Michael Cornale, M.S., Roland Manos, Ph.D., and
Jeanne Behrend, Ph.D.

Special online price
SR-101S - 373 Pages - Paperback - $13.50

I haven't finished it yet, but so far I like it. It cautions against too much sympathy.


Holly, you said -
How am I supposed to get him into an "accelerated" program where he will be excited about learning
when he won't perform even the LOW level work he is currently assigned. I want to put him into some type of program that will meet his needs. I'm afraid he will only see this as "more work".

This is the key to why many parents choose homeschooling. One thing I hear on the YSP lists is the "Goldilocks Problem." This materal is too easy, so I can't/won't consentrate on it - but that materal is too hard, plus I'm not used to working hard, so this alarms me, Where is "just right?"

My DS10 is going through this with his trombone at the moment. Minus the "not used to working hard," because last summer I switched him to a private school with a grade skip - into middle school - OUCH. I do agree that middle school is better than elementary school, because the teachers may be more "specialized" into their subject materials, the flexable schedual may allow independent study or single subject acceleration. Or not....

In the big picture, if your child is highly gifted, than the only way for them not to be underachieving is 1) grade skip, or 2) homeschool or 3) a tutor that comes to the school and teaches during "independent study time." If your child is more normally gifted, then afterschool or summer-time, might be enough if they can find that special love in the non-academic world.

There is Underachievement, where your oversensitive heart aches at the sheer waste, but they get A's and B's and can wait it out, with a strong parent-child relationship, and then there is Underachievement where they get D's and C's and phone calls from the police! Remember that there isn't any agreed definition of either gifted or underachievment. Keep looking, here and IRL, try to discover your own unappreciated gifts so you can model being a learner to your children, gifted conferences may help. Apply to Davidson YSP is your boys scores met the criterion. think about talent search summer camps for next summer, whatever else you do.

Best Wishes,
Trinity