Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment relatively lower working memory/processing

My son will be starting kindergarten this fall at a gifted school, and I'm having second thoughts. He has an overall IQ of 122, which was a bit lower than we'd expected. This is probably because his working memory and processing speeds were average and high average, respectively. I know that gifted kids tend to score lower on those two parts of IQ tests, but I'm concerned that my son will be out of his element at the gifted school. He really shines at visual/spatial things, and LOVES LOVES LOVES science. However, he's not reading, though he knows his letters and letter sounds.

When others talk about their kids having relatively lower working memory/processing speeds, what kind of difference are they typically talking about? Do these scores still fall into the gifted range? And what is the cutoff for determining a kid might be 2E? I'm guessing that a kid who scores 130+ on all the other subtests but scores closer to 100 on working memory or processing speed might have a learning disorder, even though those scores are still within the "average" range, right?

Thanks for any input you may have. I just have the one kid, so I don't really know what's normal! Sometimes my son does things that make me think, wow, you are really clever, and sometimes I'm amazed he hasn't accidentally offed himself.

aeh is the expert, so I will defer to her...

Does your DS have a high GAI/reasoning ability? It sounds like he might.

BUT in terms of how things look on paper versus what we see in real life? DYS DD9 has a only slightly above-average WMI, but her PSI is in the gifted range. Her GAI is quite high. She is a quick thinker, who is extremely high achieving. She does have a bit of an "absent minded professor" quality, though.

DYS DS7 has a similar GAI, but a somewhat lower PSI. His WMI is in the gifted range, though. When a discrepancy analysis was performed with his WISC/WIAT, his performance was MUCH closer to his GAI than his FSIQ. He is also extremely high achieving (so far).

Again, my children are still young, but I think that high reasoning abilities are significant.

I don't think there is a single rule of thumb for how differences in processing vs. reasoning scores on an ability test relate to 2e, unless processing scores are below average perhaps.

I think a better indicator is comparing ability to achievement scores. If you suspect 2e, you should think about looking into WJ-III Achievement (or similar) to get that kind of comparison.

By the way, there are plenty of gifted kids who are not reading by the time they enter Kindergarten. I doubt you should worry about him being behind solely on the basis of that.

Is the gifted school private? If so, he presumably went through the admissions process and was accepted, so that is the school expressing confidence that he will do well and is not out of his league.

For older DD, PRI = VCI. WMI is much lower, above average but not gifted. Processing speed is 34%ile. Not the worst in the class, but certainly getting there. She's been diagnosed as 2E. As we see it, she thinks in a different language than the rest of us use, and the translation takes a while. More complex questions just don't take any longer to answer than very simple ones.

She had no problems in the *gifted* classroom; they were set up to support relative weaknesses while pushing high-level reasoning. (Plus, if the question is hard enough, she isn't so much slower than others - it really is a bigger problem with items that are supposed to be quick recall facts.).She needs accomodations in the *regular* classroom to show what she knows. A classroom set up for very high achievers would not have worked out without the special arrangements and understandings that we now have.

I wouldn't worry! At this point there isn't any evidence of a problem yet, and the school thinks they can handle him.

Is the gifted school public or private? It is my understanding that public schools help remediate learning disabilities, often with IEPs and 504s, and that private schools are not necessarily required to do so. Gifted schools (and gifted programs) can differ considerably in other ways as well. For example, some may support individualized curriculum and pacing, some may be lock-step one year ahead, some may be accelerated by several years.

If I recall, a score 2 standard deviations (30 points) lower than other scores is considered significant.

If it reassures you, my DYS daughter did not master reading until about 5 and a half. She then shot ahead - I wouldn't worry too much about reading at this stage.

My DYS daughter also learned to read about halfway through kindergarten. At 11, she is pretty much at an adult reading level. She finished (and loved) The Martian last week.

There is no hard and fast rule for how much of a GAI/CPI difference definitely constitutes a 2e, although there are base rates that indicate whether it is highly unusual or rare. I would be substantially more suspicious if either WMI or PSI were normatively low (below 85). But yes, it is quite possible that someone with VCI and PRI in the 130s, but WMI and PSI closer to 100, could have a second e.

Achievement was mentioned upthread. That is definitely where I would look next, especially since it's a key component of every model of learning disabilities out there. If you have them, are any of his achievement scores near or below 100? If you don't have them, and have functional concerns about his academic performance, then you might consider additional testing, preferably with the KTEA-3 or WJIV achievement.

And don't forget asynchrony!

My DYS DD could not read until she was 8. She was not interested in reading and I didn't push it. Once she became interested, she was off and running. She was reading Lord of the Rings by 10. This kiddo qualified based on her VCI (which was well above the cutoff, and so was her reading comprehension score on the achievement test).

All the kids are different. Don't worry what's typical for other kids. I would say go with your gut. You sense the IQ score is not matching what you see. I would give the gifted school a shot and see how it goes.