Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Questions about WISC-IV, CogAt and Advocating for DS

I would really appreciate some help interpreting scores and getting a sense of what I can realistically expect for DS next year. We just received test scores for high ability placement for DS7 currently attending first grade. We had the WISC-IV done privately about 9 months ago with the following results:
VCI - 142
PRI - 139
WMI - 144
PSI - 121
FSIQ - 147

They also gave us 2 WIAT-III results (again this was 9 months ago, end of KG):
Word reading - 6.4, SS 151
Numerical operations - 3.7, SS 160

The school administered the CogAt (Verbal - 98; Quantitative - 99 and Composite 99) and Terra Nova (reading/language 97, mathematics 99). They also provided SIGS (GIA - 99, ELA - 99, Math - 99).
I have couple of questions:
1. I called the principal to discuss my son's placement in 2nd grade next year, and I mentioned that I felt the area of math and sciences was lacking. The principal referred me to my son's 99 score on the CogAt as proof that he is learning new material. Isn't that irrelevant? Wasn't he tested on his ability to complete 2nd grade material? Am I wrong?

2. My second question is regarding how to best serve his learning needs. Based on his scores, should he be able to do math at roughly the same grade level as his reading? I am concerned that we (parents) and the school are really neglecting that area. He has asked to learn algebra and I've been putting him off because of his age...

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

First, your son posted some impressive scores!

Second, it is not possible to use his achievement scores to indicate anything about growth (learning new material), as they are from only a single moment in time. You need repeated measures to make any meaningful comment about growth. And the The principal's comment overlooks the possibility that he walked into the grade already having mastered those skills.

And, the measures need to have sufficient range to distinguish significant growth, which leads to...

Third, his group achievement scores are all clearly hitting the respective ceilings of the tests. Terra Nova (like most other group standardized achievement tests) usually has about 2 to 3 grades of range above the nominal grade set. And yes, the CogAT is supposed to be a measure of aptitude, not achievement. Given the 99th %ile scores, it is difficult to say that his math should or should not be at the level of his reading. The WIAT scores suggest that his computational skills are slightly stronger than his word calling skills, in comparison to the range of skill expected for end K students. (I realize that the grade equivalents would suggest the opposite, but GEs are notoriously unreliable.) In reality, of course, a 9 point standard score difference is negligible. Whether he is ready for algebra is not easy to infer from the available data, as none of it assesses him in any depth on pre-algebra skills, if at all, and some of it is quite old, compared to his probable rate of learning.

If he's mastered basic arithmetic, why not just try him on the next steps in math, and see how he does? Check on the recommended resource board for a variety of suggestions for curricula. (I assume you are talking about afterschooling, at the moment.) There's no rule against algebra at age 7.

Thank you, aeh. I was hoping you'd chime in. I will look at the recommended resources board but what I was really hoping for was to start a dialogue with the school about giving him more appropriate material in class. My fear is that, if I keep accelerating him at home, he will get more and more bored at school. Languages are not a problem, they have been customizing his learning from the beginning of KG very successfully. Hence my hope that they would do the same in math. Currently he does more advanced math with 3 other students but it's not engaging him. I was hoping something in the scores would give me a starting point in the dialogue.

We are looking to do the full WIATT-III for admission to the DYS program soon. I'm afraid it will show little improvement in numerical operations (a lower SS?) but I guess that would make my point for me, right?

Sorry, I'm rambling Thanks again.

If you intend to use the WIAT as a progress monitoring tool (which, of course, is not its designed purpose!), then you want the report to include growth scores, as well as the usual standard scores, so you can demonstrate that his absolute skill level has or has not moved forward.

When advocating for advancement, I think schools are more readily convinced by testing from within their own curriculum, such as unit assessments, end of course, or placement exams. It's also easier to identify a destination instructional level.

Thank you, eah. Though my son was first identified as gifted 9 months ago, this is still all new and overwhelming to me. I think I was mostly looking for validation/information that it cannot be inferred by his scores that he is being challenged at school and you answered that.

I don't want to misuse any testing so we will just go ahead with the WIAT for the sake of DS DYS application but will not request anything above and beyond.

As far as assessment within their curriculum, as far as I know, they do none. BOY, MOY and EOY, the children are assessed in DIBELS and something similar for Math. When I had a progress meeting with the teacher she showed me the results which were very good but he is being assessed on the 1st grade requirements (count to 100 in a minute, count by 5's to 100,...) which he has mastered long ago, so not very helpful.

The Terra Nova and CogAt were just for placement in the HA program so they won't be repeated. Next would be standardized testing which begins in 3rd grade but that will be assessing if he's mastered the curriculum for the year. Not sure, other than taking the word of the teacher that he is doing well and being challenged, on what to do.

A little background: our school district tests 1st graders for HA, and those that qualify either receive an invitation to the HA academy (a separate school with all HA students) or are eligible to receive HA services at their current school. DS received the invitation to switch schools and we are trying to determine what's best for him. We like the learning environment at his current school a lot, and it seems a better fit for his personality. We are trying to get his current school to commit to a certain level of instruction so that we feel confident that staying put won't be a disservice to DS. We also get that he will be one child out of 23-24 that needs to be instructed so we understand that there are limitations to what they can do for him.

We were in somewhat of the same place a long time ago when our ds first started school. We chose the non-gifted magnet because we liked the personality fit of the school he was in better, and we felt we had a decent chance of differentiated instruction. It's a give and take for sure - in hindsight there were plenty of times I wished we'd sent him to the gifted magnet so he'd have intellectual peers and so he'd have advanced instruction, but otoh, we knew so many families who left the gifted school for reasons we were very concerned about - large amounts of homework, very strict traditional teaching methods, and a parent group that included a lot of parents who were so focused on IQ they didn't see anything else and were actually comparing students' IQs with each other as a matter of fluffing their own personal parental egos. The one concern I had which I think was probably most valid in not sending our ds - where he would be in terms of academics at the end of elementary - didn't turn out to be too much of a concern ultimately in spite of his not receiving much differentiation in the school he was in. He was easiliy subject accelerated upon entering middle school and he's now in a high-ability program in high school with peers from that original elementary program and he's right up there, hasn't missed a beat in terms of where he's at vs the other students. Does that mean he *could* have progressed higher in academics? Sure... but I think as long as you're choosing to send your child through any brick and mortar school system (public or private) you're going to face some type of instructional ceiling. And I'm ok with that - I appreciate the other things our kids have received from being in school.


You said that students who are identified for the HA program but opt to not switch to the HA magnet are eligible to receive HA services at their home school. There must be someone in the HA program who is responsible for helping to set up that plan - I'd be surprised if it was the principal alone? Has that person been involved in helping you determine what can be done for your ds during the next school year at his present school? I can't tell you who it would be in your school, but in our school district each elementary school has a gifted coordinator (sometimes shared between schools), and there are additionally contacts at the district level you can refer questions too. You can also ask if there are other parents who've made the same choice that you could talk to - that might help you get an idea of how well staying in the current school will work.

Best wishes,

polarbear