Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Finally getting tested, have some questions

Hi, my son just turned 5. We just had our meeting for transition to K today and after a battle I finally got them to schedule my son for an IQ test. We go back in 2 weeks and I want to make sure I am prepared and everything is as it should be.

Today they did what they called a short IQ test, I guess standard for all kids going into K? It took maybe 20 minutes and seemed pretty simple. The administrator said after "Your son was amazing, either he is very bright or a very good guesser." This kinda bothered me because the fact that I've been saying he is unusually gifted at academics for years should be the first clue he wasn't just guessing. The test also seemed very basic, letters, numbers, colors. There were some questions like leaf is to tree as petal is to ? He seemed to really enjoy those as I heard all about them on the car ride home. They said I will have the results for this mini test soon.

My son is currently diagnosed with ASD (basically mild asperger's) and we are privately looking at whether that label is still accurate and whether ADHD better describes him now... or both. He is very hyper, impulsive, unfocused, and distracted, to the point where it takes us 40 minutes to get out of the house to go places (even those he really wants to go to). He is on Prozac for anxiety. His behavior at school is a mess.

I feel that any test that adds to our understanding of him and what is going on is very valuable and I finally convinced them to do it. The IU has been putting me off for 2 years saying that IQ wasn't a factor in his behavior and it would be something we could look into later.

I met the lady who will administer the test. She seems very nice and was calm with my son, which is great. She said there will be a 1 hour IQ test, the wispy it sounded like she said and a 1 hour achievement test. Since the school is only 5 minutes away I decided to break it up into 2 sessions.

Is there anything else I should be requesting? Does all of that sound standard? My sons current preK teacher is concerned about dyslexia, will that test pick up on that? Is there anything I need to teach him about taking tests? Today I saw the instructor ask him to touch the picture of the employees. He said "employees?" She said, "yeah, I know that's a big word." He touched a picture of people, but the wrong one. Later I asked him if he knew what an employee was. He said employees are people who do what you tell them to and they make things. I feel like he would have done much better if he had been able to answer verbally or if conversation had been encouraged rather than a simple point to the answer style. Will the real test also be a lot of the pointing stuff?

I have to admit that I waited 4 years to get this testing done (by 12 months my son was very different from the typical children and I had no idea what was going on) and now that we are finally ready to get our answers I'm actually kind of scared. I'm not worried about a high or low score, I just want an accurate score and I'm worried about him testing below where he should due to his social and behavioral issues. I don't want the test to say he is smart, I want it to help us with understanding him. So I'm very concerned about getting an accurate result.

I know I can't be there for the IQ test, but I'm hoping I can for the academic testing. That will give me a chance to let the tester know if he just isn't trying. Tonight he wanted some math questions during dinner so I asked 224 plus 224. He immediately said 424. I said,"I think you forgot to do something". He thought a moment and said 448. He often does that, answers without thinking it through and during testing they won't know he is just blurting out something and not thinking.

If he does do poorly on the test or is uncooperative, how long do we have to wait to test again? I'm still not sure I trust an employee of the public school system to do a good job at this, but I am happy they will be doing it for free. If I feel the results do not represent my son at all I would like to get him retested privately as soon as it's ok to do so.

I'm probably not going to sleep for the next two weeks. Between the IQ testing and him taking the ADOS again I've got way too much to worry about! He just finished his BOT 2 testing through his private OT, he got 5.7 (age equivalents, not raw scores) on fine motor precision, 7.4 on fine motor integration, around 6.5 on the third subtest (forget what it was, included making dots on circles and stringing beads), and today he did one with ball skills and scored below age 4, but it's not all scored yet. So on the BOT 2 alone his age ranges were from 3-7. I'm happy to finally be moving forward on getting some answers, hopefully all of this will really benefit my son.

And sorry if this was rambly, I'm having a rambly sort of week.

Panzer, Sorry I have nothing to offer on the testing questions but wanted to give you a hug and remind you to just relax. Children can easily pick up on their parents' anxiety. So you will be helping your son by staying cool about the whole test. All the best!

Two things:

First, I may have problems pointing to the right pictures out of a set of people pictures if asked who are employees. I guess if they look American I could eliminate young kids, outside of that most people could potentially be employees. Some folks might look more like a stereotypical employee, but....

Second, Good luck. Hope everything works out good for everyone.

Yes, breath.

I believe the IQ test they are talking about is the WPPSI -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wechsler_Preschool_and_Primary_Scale_of_Intelligence

The fact that the person administering the test is nice and calm with your son is a great sign.

FWIW my DS was tested at 6.5. He sat under the desk for 1/3 of the testing, spun in his chair, threw his pencil around and was an all around disaster. I sat in the corner and cringed thinking the tester was thinking I was a nutcase for thinking he was even remotely bright. In the end she saw through it all and he somehow came out with gifted scores that in many ways exceeded what we would have ever guessed. Good luck and breath.

Of course, I don't know anything beyond what you've told us about the specific examiner, but, in general, early childhood evaluators are very accustomed to the behavior and varying levels of attention and compliance of young children. I don't do littles much anymore, but when I did, I absolutely tested children while they were under tables, spinning, dancing, in 15 minute increments, rewarding them with stickers every few items completed (lots of stickers!), taking turns (you draw a picture, and then I'll draw a picture), etc. I've sat under the table with them, given them fidget toys to play with while testing...pretty much done everything except stand on my head in the quest for optimal performance (can't do a headstand). I think I may have tested a stuffie once.

Naturally, you should do what you think is best for your son, but I would put a caution in about sitting in for any portion of testing. Children, especially very bright children, are very savvy about cueing off their parents' (and the examiner's) reactions to their responses. If you are in the room, make sure you are somewhere that he cannot see or hear you. Many children give up more easily if adult feedback conveys to them that they are answering incorrectly. He knows you very well, so he will be able to read your "tells" much more easily than another person's. You might be better off giving the examiner a few examples of the kind of careless responding that may obscure his true abilities, along with some of his specific skills, in a private conversation out of earshot of your son.

I would agree that the cognitive test is the WPPSI-IV, a very appropriate instrument for this age and ability. If you need re-testing, the re-test interval is a minimum of two years from the last administration, if giving the exact same test. In two years, he will be seven, which would move him up to the WISC-V. In fact, you could have him re-tested with the WISC-V at age 6.0, in exactly a year. If you really need re-testing sooner than that, the SBV is also a solid instrument, with a higher ceiling than the WPPSI-IV, actually. The WJIV cognitive would also work, but it has some normative limitations for early childhood.

I wouldn't get too far ahead of yourself, worrying about having to have him re-tested. Keep in mind that IQ scores are quite unstable at this age, so even if he doesn't test at a number consistent with your everyday experience of him, it doesn't necessarily mean it was a bad test. Little children are just a bit unpredictable in their response to and presentation on testing. It's more important to focus on the information, guidance, and supports you get out of testing, than on the precise numbers.

Oh, and the brief test that he just had is likely a kindergarten screener, which is designed mainly to pick up children with delays in one of the Big 5 areas of development. They tend to have low ceilings, as the objective is child find for children at risk for disabilities and developmental delays, not actual IQ. Many of them are reported simply as above or below a cut score.

I will leave the details to the expert advice you received above, but quick add: no, the cognitive test will not pick up on dyslexia or such issues. These need to be teased out separately.

I've found the IDA fact sheets good summaries that stick to the facts (be forewarned, most dyslexia websites tend to get a little carried away); there's one one testing towards the end of the list: http://eida.org/fact-sheets/

ITA


Also agreed. The IQ test may be *impacted* by dyslexia or other LDs, but you'll not have the full information you'll need to know that your child is dyslexic. To diagnose an LD a wide variety of information is usually taken into account: ability/achievement testing is part of it, classroom and parental observations, classwork/homework samples, and further testing to pinpoint the exact nature of the observed challenges. Most kids with LDs aren't diagnosed until they've been in school for a little while. You're ahead of the game since your ds has a preschool teacher who's identified a potential concern.

When you asked the school for testing, were you asking specifically for dyslexia testing or for gifted testing? If you are concerned about testing, there are other things you should be able to ask to have included that are specifically targeted at reading - although I don't know if they are available for the age your ds is. One thing you might request through school or pursue on your own is vision/hearing testing.

Best wishes,

polarbear

Thank you for all of the responses. As far as the dyslexia thing goes, my son is actually a great reader, but his teacher is concerned about his resistance to sounding out new words (which he can do, but it seems to require a lot more effort than it should) and the fact that he reverses his letters even with years of practice at writing. He also occasionally spells words backwards. He also sometimes guesses a word when reading, but based on the last letter in the word rather than the first, which might be normal, but I don't remember ever doing it.

The IU just repeats the same old line of we don't expect a child to write without reversals or even read at all, so it's not a problem. The preschool teacher believes that errors only make sense for children who are not as familiar with the letters, not a kid who knew them all before 18 months and has been obsessed with them (in addition to numbers) pretty much ever since he was old enough to see (as an infant when I read to him he only looked at the words and not the pictures, I was so concerned by this behavior!). He also reverses numbers.

Another thing I notice about him is that he can complete math problems much better in his head than on paper. This is completely counter-intuitive to me! As soon as math is written down he fights doing it, but when we are in the car he asks for math challenges the whole ride.

I spoke to the head OT at our private therapy today and she said we are going to mainly focus on body awareness, motor planning, and anxiety during the next 6 months. His BOT 2 scores ranged from 34 (well above average) for fine motor integration to 0 (well below average) for upper limb coordination.

This is a kid who can write very neatly, but can't open the screen door or the car door. He cuts beautifully, but can't get the scissors on his hand right without help, or even on his right hand. He hates to try new things or to do anything even remotely challenging. Transitions to difficult or novel activities usually end in very violent tantrums.

Every test we have done leads us closer to answers as to what is going on with the poor kid. He really is a sweet child and so easy to be with as long as there are no real demands placed on him. Out of the house he has to control everything and can't handle the slightest deviation from what he had in mind.

He's clearly got a disability, he has been in therapy since 2. We just need to figure out what it is so that we can actually help him. My concern with the IQ test is just getting accurate and useful results. I certainly wouldn't mind if they confirmed what I have been saying for years about how advanced he is, but even if his IQ isn't amazing, his academic achievement can't be denied. He is clearly reading and doing math at a beginning 3rd grade level (average, he's probably got some gaps as I'm not a teacher and some areas very advanced, even to adult level). I don't know any other kids his age who are like him, he's amazing and super challenging and we love him that way

Also, aeh, I don't mean to offend with my opinions on school psychologists. I personally had very negative experiences in that area and our local IU in general tends to attract some of the worst professionals in their fields (OT especially). A few of the IU employees have been great, most have not. I will probably never get over my personal bias against public schools, but that in no way means that I think school employees are always less qualified than those in private practice. After all, there are some pretty horrible people in private practice... Kidding, kidding

We have a great speech therapist with the IU and the psychologist who will perform the test seemed very nice and even told me she would manage to test him even if he never sat in his chair. She also said he can take breaks and visit me anytime. She insisted on an am session, which hadn't even occurred to me. I didn't grill her on her experience with gifted kids, because I'm not sure if my son is one. I guess I just have to trust that she knows what she is doing!

No offense taken. I know that there have been some pretty catastrophic experiences with public schools out there.

I gather, then, that this eval is a disability-driven eval, rather than primarily about giftedness. You may wish to convey all that you have said here about odd disparities in his academic skill to the psych, so she knows that she may need other instruments, like the CTOPP-2 or the PAL-2. Or at least a measure of word attack.