Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Do acheievement tests correlate with IQ tests?

hi there,

We had our DS tested on the WPPSI when he was almost 4 and he scored 145. Then at 5.5 years old he was retested and scored 139 (but he was tested unmedicated. He has ADHD). Recently he has had achievement testing at school - he scored overall 143. (His scored range from 155 in reading and comprehension to average (in spelling :)).

When he had the second IQ test it felt wrong (although i sat in on the test and he was pushed hard by the tester but struggled to keep attention and gave up as soon as anything he had to think about was presented).

Obviously I dont want to be a parent who thinks their child is the smartest kid ever...because clearly he is not. But Ive not yet come across another child like him which makes me think he seems more like a one in 1000 kid rather than a one in 100 kid.

He taught himself to read just before he turned 3. He read, and comprehended Harry Potter when he was 4. He asks incredibly complex questions about the earth, space, science, films, stories, history. His teacher told me that he appears to have photographic memory, whic we suspected from a young age whereby he could do some amazing things, even as a baby. He has sophisticated interests. He is in kindergarten and cant understand why the other boys just run around playing chase - he wants to play more complex games. He is self aware and insightful. He is desperately sad that he hasnt made a male friend yet in school and wants a friend who is a boy. At his first parent teacher conference the teacher said so far in her in class assessments he has surpassed the end of grade one and has not finished being assessed. She said he could easily be in 2nd grade at this point.

So as we are unlikely to get any more testing at this point, but just for my infomation, is it likely a child like this would be closer the the first IQ test and most recent acheievement testing or the unmedicated second IQ test?

I obviously want to advocate appropriately for him and I believe the two different results would mean different things in terms of what we think he needs best.

i would love to hear from others aout what to think. Can a 136 child be like this? Obviously its just a number but if i feell one in one 100 children could be like this than i think he may not need extension or acceleration but if he is one in 1000 he is more unlikely to come across a kindred spirit anytime soon.

Not an expert, but I imagine that you wouldn't want an achievement and IQ test too off the mark. This seems more likely happen if a child has a learning disability or a more global issue like ADHD.

My DS8 had a WISC 141 FSIQ, 146 GAI, and a 154 achievement on the WJ. *However* his math score brought the entire WJ up by a lot. His reading and writing scores were in the 135-145 range. It was surprising because his verbal skills on the IQ test far outstripped his perceptual reasoning score. I think it shows that the kids are still developing-- I recall the administering psych (WISC) stating the the perceptual reasoning score was probably low and would increase with age.

That's just our story- when I look at your DS's achievement test, it seems pretty clustered with the initial and subsequent IQ test. Keep in mind too that some scores may improve with experience- spelling seems like a good example of a score that will go up. Math may also go up-- my DS had an early passion for math that we fed, so in retrospect, it makes sense that the math score could be high right now and plateau a bit later.

I believe that tests have "ranges" for a reason. I don't think that I would worry to much about the precise number; rather, they are merely two snapshots on two different days. All of your testing and information suggest that your DS is both quite gifted and high achieving.

One thing that can be done if the right IQ and achievement tests are done around the same time is a discrepancy analysis. DS's tester did this when he took the WISC/WIAT, and it was very interesting.

I think all kids, including gifted and HG+ kids, are different. DS6 is a DYS, but he DOES run around and play chase with boys his own age. He also plays with friends who are 9 and 10-years-old sometimes, and manages to fit in. He's a bit of a social chameleon. Then again, DD is pickier about her friends and less willing to be a chameleon - she also often doesn't care to change herself to fit in with anyone...she is stubbornly herself.

Best of luck with your advocacy - your son is very lucky that you are trying to help meet his needs!

Minichi-- I also wanted to mention that if the WIAT is scored similarly to the WJ (I assume that it is) a 143 is fantastic score-- something like 99.8 percentile. It means your DS is closer to 1 and 1,000 than 1 in 100. Additionally, there may be some scores that are more beneficial than others-- I guess (my opinion) that I would rather DS be a better reader than speller, if I had the choice. When we took the WJ achievement- some of the first scores I zoomed in on were applied math, reading comprehension, and written expression. I assume all of the scores are important, but comprehension, problem solving, and written expression seem far more helpful as educational demands increase.

My answer got eaten but I suspect the confidence intervals for 139 and 145 overlap.

Yes, they do.

To OP: the cognitive scores are not significantly different from each other. Nor are the achievement scores significantly discrepant from the cognitive scores. He's very young yet, so these scores cannot be expected to be terribly stable. For the moment, I would just enjoy his gifts, and follow his lead. The difference in advocacy needs across the range of scores you've reported will not become marked for another couple of years, especially given how much his social, emotional, and fine motor development will affect his school experience in the near term.

BTW, what achievement test did he have? That would help to figure out if a discrepancy analysis could be done, and if it would be significant.

I noticed that the OP put 139 as the result if the second IQ test in the first place, then goes on to wonder whether he sounds like a 136 kid.
That said, the scores are still clustered pretty close, especially considering the kids young age - before the age of 7, the scores can be all over the place after all. It stands to reason that a test in which the child was noticeably distracted might underestimate a bit, so the 143 resp. 145 results are probably closer to his real ability/achievement. I'd imagine the school might place more emphasis on the achievement testing anyway, and it would surprise me to hear of any school (I mean teachers and administrators, obviously some a schools have staff like aeh!) who realized exactly what difference 136 and 145 makes. It's out of range for what they are used to and can accommodate, period.
So unless you have a gifted program in mind that has hard and fast cutoffs at the 145 mark, it shouldn't really matter for your advocacy, as schools are much more likely to react to the child they see as opposed to test scores. In your case, it sounds like he might be a good candidate for a grade skip, especially if he does well on medication.

Also, how giftedness presents and what someone needs academically probably has at least as much to do with personality and other traits as a number. My dd's GAI is up in the 160's but she probably would not look like she needed a ton of differentiation if she were in a good school (we homeschool). She is strong in math but doesn't like it, she is anxious and perfectionistic so she hides. And her PGness shows up in her reading and literary analysis ability. Not something that would really be noticeable in most 7th grade classrooms.

On the other hand, a mathy kid with a different set of personality traits and interests might need radical acceleration even with a number well below the PG cut. My point is that your kid's needs will be determined as much by who he is as by a number.