Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion "Social necessities" beneficial or detrimental?

I would just like to add that I think the "socialization" argument is WAY over-stated. I have heard kids need to take the bus "for socialization," have to go to pre-school (at age 2!!!??? Really???), "for socialization" have to go to daycare "for socialization" etc., etc. I stopped making any decisions on such nonsense. I personally agree that actual and quite good socialization can be learned in good family and going out and about with parents, playing at the playground, etc. Now maybe kids with social deficits and disorders need more specific therapy in this regard and need it earlier, etc. but, other than that, I think the whole "needs socialization!" is way over done... But that is just my opinion. It was the mantra around here, everyone - particularly SAHMs, running around putting 2 years olds in various daycares and "schools" for "socialization!" Apparently, someone somewhere said "OH your TWO YEAR OLD absolutely NEEDS to go to "school" - otherwise how will he learn "Socialization!" {It reminded of the scene in the movie "Idiotcracy" where everyone is running around feeding plants something like Gatorade and repeating the product commercial saying "Because It's what plants crave!" LOL} MANY whispered behind my back when I didn't go along with it.... They were also "concerned" that I wasn't putting DS on the school bus to got to school opting rather to drop him off ("but what about the socialization he will miss out on if he doesn't take the bus!!!") and not in drop-off daycares at gyms, etc. Honestly, I thought the mindset was a bit weird. I'm glad those days are over - my kids, for the record, seem fine

We tried the SAHP route, it didn't turn out to be sufficient for DS or sustainable for the parent. I am quite sure it works very well for many families. DS needed more at a young age (starting at about 2ish) than the smart, capable, perfectionist parent could provide while maintaining some life balance.

As with other topics, few things seem to work perfectly for all, or for one child year after year. :-)

You need to decide what is best for your child. No solution is perfect (and yes, I have seen some downfalls to SAH situation - one being a family where the wife could not drive and was by nature on the shy side - their little one was starting to act out at home and trying to follow her dad out the door every time he left the apartment because she was going stir crazy, and they ended up putting her into a part time daycare, which really helped a lot - for both the mother who was getting so stressed due to the lack of mobility outside of their home and the child acting out at 18 months). So it is really what is best for the WHOLE family.

I agree that using the socialization as the argument is not really a strong one, but really, it is what works for the family.

With 2 children in daycare, I have to say, it is unusual even at 18 months to have a room full of crying kids, so see if you can observe the room when it is not drop off. DD is 20 months, and I always make a point to drop off during breakfast, and unless someone fell or such, it is usually just the usual toddler chatter. I have never seen her room where kids were just randomly crying and never more than 1 (usually over a fall, or over a popular toy/book or if they spilled their milk into their lap - this is the age where at daycare, they are learning how to use their spoon and cup so it gets messy).

But we are lucky - DD's teachers go crazy with art projects - which DD absolutely loves, and in novel ways (which we find out at home when I catch her trying to use random objects to use in her artwork and nothing is safe from being used as either a brush or for smearing) and they do books and songs galore, so we have learned some tunes we never heard before.

If the nanny was a good situation, and you could still have some fun activities that he likes with other kids (same age or older), is that an option for you? It did not sound like daycare/preschool was driven for reasons other than the socialization aspect... if so, maybe just returning to the old setup is better - whether it is at 2, 3 or 4 - it is really not going to matter when they need to be able to socialize.

I really don't have much worthwhile to add that hasn't already been said, but fwiw I wanted to second what notnafnaf mentioned - all three of my children when through daycare and preschool (multiple schools, many different teachers) and not one of them had a room full of crying children all day, even when the babies were really really tiny. I would try to drop in at mid-morning and see what the environment is like then - or perhaps just stay for a few hours in the morning after drop-off. If there really are children crying all the time, that to me is an indication that the place really isn't a good place for *any* child, regardless of IQ.

FWIW, I was also a hands-off the academics at that age too - didn't worry about it, and just followed my kids' leads... and chose preschools that had a similar philosophy (in our area, Montessori worked well - not just because it was Montessori, but because it was truly child-led in terms of learning and because of the wonderful teachers).

Best wishes,

polarbear

If you are able to stay home with him, he could get positive social experiences with playdates, parent-child classes, parks, etc. That's enough 'socialization' for a two year old. If you do need childcare, what about an in-home daycare with maybe 4 or 5 other kids? That might give him a home-like atmosphere and a chance to develop real relationships with other kids in a non-overwhelming environment.

In my opinion, any preschool/daycare environment that your child hates is not going to be beneficial, and can even be harmful psychologically. If your child is not happy (after giving him time to adjust ), you should take him out of that environment. Also, be aware that sometimes a good environment can go bad, if there are changes in staffing, or if your child gets frustrated/bored by the curriculum. Personally, I've stuck with things that weren't working for too long, and my child never made progress socially in those situations.

Both my kids went to combination of home based care and day care. With a few exceptions kids only cry when they are hurt or are having a rough day. It worked for my kids BUT if I could have afforded a nanny who could have taken them to playgroup and gym and music and kept them home when they were tired and sick that would have been a far better option. Little kids don't need to socialise all day every day to learn socialisation skills and to be honest skills are probably better learnt in shorter bursts.

And NO child under school age should be expected to sit through academics except of their own free will OR ever given homework. I don't mean a 10 minute song, story etc session but even then the child should be expected and strongly encouraged but not forced.

DS3 is in daycare and he LOVES his teacher. I have seen kids cry when having to leave but not the other way around past the first day or so. There isn't much in the way of academics. The worksheets I have seen are a little different than expected but probably relate back to his teacher's psychology background. It seems like she is using a social skills workbook. There are worksheets with a picture of a situation involving a few people and then choices of how they might react. I think these are worked on as a group with lots of acting on her part.
They learn songs with hand motions and dance moves, tend a garden and harvest their own snack, care for a class pet, take naps and play.

At that age DS6 was in a more rigid academic setting and hated it. It took him a while to get over the "school is a bad place" mentality.

I strongly feel preschool should be a place where he's learning to make friends, to share toys, to take turns, to solve conflicts, to follow classroom routines, to increase his frustration tolerance, to do messy art group projects, and to explore and navigate social dynamics.

If it's a quality program where he is learning to do all the above and more, 10-15 minutes of academic instruction per day that is overly repetitive for him is probably okay - not great but not detrimental either. A lot of parents want and expect that kind of exposure for their 2/3 year olds so if you are at a "mainstream" preschool, it'd be hard to avoid that but it's not like in Kindergarden where they spend a significant portion of the day going over basic phonics and numeracy. That, I think, would be a problem.

Thank you again for the feedback. This is a new venture for us, and I appreciate all of the perspectives and opinions.

The primary focus of his "curriculum" is reading and singing corresponding songs to the books, as well as learning sight words, etc. I would like to stress that this curriculum is fun and that these 2 & 3 year olds are not being made to sit in chairs and work on worksheets. Unlike most daycares, this is a school in the sense that every "toy" is an educational one and they have educational "goals" they try to meet each week. (Retention/Comprehension of the books, recognizing words, etc)

The homework, for the 4-5 year olds, is designed to be "fun" with focus on sentence building, CVC words, etc. Although my little guy finds this "homework" fun because it's new material...a challenge.

After reading some of your replies, I sought out additional clarification from the teachers as I do agree with most of you - it should be a happy experience not a day filled with educational structure. At this age, they really are focusing on the children being in a socially driven environment with pair playing and circle time.

This thread garnered some deep discussions between my husband and I. When a child care provider says "it is normal for your child to cry for hours, even all day" you have to wonder how much of a good time that could possibly be for the children who are not crying.

Ultimately, an environment that is so extremely stressful cannot positively impact anyone, gifted or not.

We have noticed, in less than 2 short weeks that our little guy is regressing some...he has sought out his old baby books, is less interested in things/toys he was before. What we aren't sure of yet is where it leads. We are willing to give it time so long as he continues to grow in other ways.

The comments regarding the pressure we felt to "socialize" him helped clarify a few things for us; specifically, that it is not entirely a necessary step at this age. He is not kept inside away from the world and therefore I do believe he can adapt to social norms without the influence of a day school or child care center.

Good luck and keep us posted! Wishing you success with the path you choose.