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    Joined: May 2013
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    Originally Posted by polarbear
    Originally Posted by blackcat
    So he could do division word problems, but he didn't know how to measure with a paper clip. He must have missed the paper clip lesson last year in kindergarten when he fractured his skull. smile

    blackcat, that's a shame that your ds missed the "how to measure with a paper clip" lesson last year… because… you know.. when I need to measure something that's always what I look for first - a paper clip (SERIOUS sarcasm inserted here lol!).

    ps - about reading books ahead of school - my ds and older dd both typically found the school pace of going through books boring beyond belief, whether or not they'd read the books before the class read them. DS in particular usually read the books right away when they were assigned, so he'd be done with the book by the end of the first day they were assigned many times, so I gave up worrying about whether or not to tell him "no, don't read this yet because you might have to read it again in school later on". Which sorta comes around to what we've found with acceleration - acceleration may temporarily stave away boredom, but it doesn't (or hasn't for us) done anything more than a "step up" - the classroom pace is still slow, unless you are able to place your child in with other similar-ability kids and in a classroom without disruptions. That's been the biggest challenge for us in terms of finding an appropriate curriculum.

    Yep, this is what I'm kind of thinking. DD did a whole grade acceleration and it solved the problem of her being bored and ahead of everyone else for about a year. Now she's back to being bored again. The classroom pace is still really slow and there's still the same repetition. It was better than doing nothing at all, but really the ideal solution would be to have kids work at their pace. I just wish this was more structured.

    What she's doing for DS is taking the "suggested learning objectives" from the computerized test and basically going down the list in order. I have this for DD's test from Jan. but not for DS. It's structured into sections: Alegebra, Data Analysis & Probablility, Geometry, Measurement, and Numbers & Operations. So for the Algebra section for instance, it lists the 5 skills she attained since the last time she took the test (based on what? one question which could have been a good guess if it's multiple choice)? Then in another column are the suggested learning objectives. These are supposed to be in order from easiest to hardest. So for DD it lists the standard 6.EE.2.a (or whatever) and then "the learner will perform conversions between variable expressions and word phrases." Then the next one. "The learner will solve real world inequalities." Then "The learner will determine the correct equation for a word problem and solve." Then there's about 6 more for Algebra. Then for Data Analysis it's "The learner will use a tree diagram, picture, model, or list to show the possible outcomes for a given event." Then "The learner will find the probability of mutually exclusive events and inclusive events", and so on. So what DS's teacher appears to be doing is doing one standard from algebra, using worksheets she prints out online. Then a couple days later, she might do a standard from geometry, sending home worksheets until he's not making many mistakes. Then two days later, probability. Eventually she'll get back to algebra and do the next standard(s) on the list. So it is in order from easier to harder. But the problem is that some standards are missing, because the test thinks he mastered them when he didn't. So she might send home "convert 838 inches into yards" when I had never shown him how to divide by numbers higher than 10 and that would require dividing by 36. So for him to do the converting homework, I had to go back and teach that and it caused stressed.

    I had to laugh about the paperclip measuring as well. Why even bother when she could have just skipped that and showed him cm, mm, etc. with a regular ruler! smile

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    In a nutshell, we have found that acceleration was good for a couple of months to learn something new and for the novelty of some of the material, the teacher and class. But after a few months, DS7 reported that it was "boring" and too slow. He was accelerated 3 years in math. He has asked to not do math in school next year (it is the only academic subject that he does at school - the rest we homeschool). I think that he actually preferred what he was doing at the start of the school year. He was sitting in his 2nd grade class and I sent in higher level work. I taught him the material at home (or he taught himself) and he worked on his workbook by himself at school.

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    Originally Posted by ElizabethN
    Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
    I agree-- DD has now read Romeo and Juliet three times, and each time, she sees it from a new perspective. Her first two readings are singular in that she couldn't really identify with the romantic feelings of either title character, but saw all of their behavior with a rather harsh rationality that didn't tally well with classmates as a 9th grader (well, she was only ten, so...)


    DD's 2nd grade class read a simplified and abridged version of Romeo and Juliet, and DD had a similar reaction. Her one-sentence synopsis of the play was something like, "teenagers can be really stupid."

    I liked Shakespeare at twelve but mainly the histories. When I finally saw Romeo and Juliet at 17 my response was "Romeo is a d**k.

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    Originally Posted by somewhereonearth
    In a nutshell, we have found that acceleration was good for a couple of months to learn something new and for the novelty of some of the material, the teacher and class. But after a few months, DS7 reported that it was "boring" and too slow. He was accelerated 3 years in math. He has asked to not do math in school next year (it is the only academic subject that he does at school - the rest we homeschool). I think that he actually preferred what he was doing at the start of the school year. He was sitting in his 2nd grade class and I sent in higher level work. I taught him the material at home (or he taught himself) and he worked on his workbook by himself at school.

    Thanks. I'm still not sure what direction to (try) to go in. I know DS tends to like to be with kids doing the same thing...and he can be lazy and asks things like "why do I have to do so much work..." but he doesn't want to do "baby math" either. He is already fluent with multiplication and division and place value, etc. and that's a big part of the third grade curriculum. So I'm not sure what the point would be for him to be there anymore than being in second grade math. Fourth grade math might involve more writing, and he struggles with handwriting since he's 2e. I don't know if he will be accepted into the gifted magnet (like DD) in 4th grade or if he'll even be in this district anymore since I keep trying to get him out. But if he does go to the magnet, they mix all the 4th-6th graders up and put the kids at the correct level for reading and math. So if we can just get through the next two years keeping him in the correct grade...maybe things will improve in fourth grade. Or maybe not depending on what the eligibility criteria is then. He's not evenly gifted, he's much more advanced with non-verbal and math ability than verbal, but is an advanced reader. I think his percentiles for math and reading on the computerized testing were both 99 percentile.

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    Acceleration (early start, plus 2 grade skips) didn't solve the basic problem of providing appropriate challenges, although -- to use a saying I learned here -- it was the least worst of available options.

    Ideally, DS would be in a class surrounded by similarly gifted children. Instead, he's simply 2-3 years younger than others in his grade. This age difference introduces challenges of its own, but in reality, he still has it pretty easy in most of his classes.

    We had an eye-opener last week when we attended his sibling's Open House and stopped into the classroom where many of his age peers are winding up their school year.

    Holy Cow, YES!! ... we definitely made a better decision in putting him ahead as compared to leaving him in place.

    Where he is now is not perfect... where he would have been... is DEFINITELY not perfect, or even remotely appropriate.

    I would venture to say that acceleration will not solve the problem, but it will (generally) move you much closer to a solution.






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    There's another benefit to whole-grade acceleration: it saves the kid a year or more of homework drudgery.


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    I would say that acceleratING solves the problem (though it causes some problems too). Acceleration, as in whole-grade, may only be a temporary patch. HG+ kids need to go either faster or deeper. A regular classroom (even one for older kids) may not do either. So you can bump them and it will seem good for a while (they missed stuff, they have to hustle to catch up, new things are exciting) but then the same issues can arise -- not fast enough, not deep enough.

    I think there's this common misconception among schools and parents (and I used to think this too) that you just have to find the right LEVEL for the child and then everything will be OK. So once you bump them to where there's new stuff, now you're set and then can just march along with everyone else. Plus it can be so hard to even get an acceleration (we never could) that it becomes something like the holy grail of educational fixes.

    Truth is that unless they have the opportunity to also go faster or deeper within that class (or both), they may have the same issue again in a year.

    Which does not mean not to do it now. Because it will be better for a while. HK made the comment in another thread that no solution worked longer than about 18 months. That's been similar to our experience as well. So just be ready for that possibility.

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    Originally Posted by Ivy
    HK made the comment in another thread that no solution worked longer than about 18 months. That's been similar to our experience as well.


    While I agree with this statement, it has been our experience as well. What I dislike about this statement is that I feel like when I try and switch things up, my child loses some "stability" in life. Meaning, friendships fall off or adult teachers/role models are lost in the process. Whereas, most kids get more stability. How do you figure it all out with a kid who academically needs change and challenge about every 6 -9 months, but craves stability and no change in terms of people. I always feel like I'm sacrificing something.

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    Originally Posted by master of none
    Originally Posted by Mom2Two
    Originally Posted by Ivy
    HK made the comment in another thread that no solution worked longer than about 18 months. That's been similar to our experience as well.


    While I agree with this statement, it has been our experience as well. What I dislike about this statement is that I feel like when I try and switch things up, my child loses some "stability" in life. Meaning, friendships fall off or adult teachers/role models are lost in the process. Whereas, most kids get more stability. How do you figure it all out with a kid who academically needs change and challenge about every 6 -9 months, but craves stability and no change in terms of people. I always feel like I'm sacrificing something.


    This is one of the biggest challenges that results in some kids refusing acceleration, some staff believing that acceleration is damaging, and parents untold angst. Kids who are especially good at forming strong social bonds with friends can struggle mightily with this conflict. Our DYS consultant said "if you make friends easily in one grade, you will make friends easily in the next grade". Well, that's true BUT these are not just interchangeable friends. These are PEOPLE in a RELATIONSHIP.

    Some positives of changing things up though:
    1. You can work it to avoid a "poor fit" of a teacher.
    2. Your child meets a lot of new friends so when acceleration/deceleration talk happens in middle and high school, your child already knows some kids when they move.
    3. Your child gets more appropriate work and even if it's not at the right level,there is at least SOME challenge in adjusting to new social challenges.
    4. You become a subject of gossip, providing something for bored neighbors, teachers, and school parents to judge, spicing up their lives. (maybe not positive for you, but it does build that inner strength and conviction!)

    Really, this very issue and compromise is a significant sacrifice for our kids. Acceleration done early helps with this-- get the instability out of the way early, but it doesn't make it OK that our kids can't get the academics they need in a stable and supportive environment. Some kids get to go to schools for HG but this often means leaving the neighbor kids. Some kids stay in their grades and have different work if they have a willing teacher---but what of next year?

    It's one of those situations where you say "it is what it is" and you just do the best you can. Remembering that kids are resilient and this stuff is just part of what shapes their lives. Kids deal with divorce, moving, redistricting, friend's moving, death of loved ones, etc. all potentially destabilizing. Having the right support helps kids build the inner strength to deal with what comes their way.

    It is a benefit to your child that you recognize that this sacrifice is real. And it does get better for you as your child grows and begins to recognize his/her own needs and priorities. But, it doesn't help that nothing is designed for our kids. Everywhere you turn in school, there are these hard ceilings and your child must wait until they are no longer ready to get to the academics they crave. Right now, we are once again, holding back to keep a good compromise between social, academics, AND ridiculous rules that restrict high school classes to specific grade levels. A reason in the pro column for skipping early and often that we hadn't thought of when we undid our second skip for the social component.

    I dream that at some point, the tide will turn. I can just hear the way it will be sold-- There will be stories of tragedy from holding kids back, stripping even the most eager and motivated kids of their desire to learn and go to school. These kids are the "lost" kids and here's the rescue mission. Rather than grade levels where kids must conform, now we'll have child levels. Everyone is tested every year, not to see if the school or teacher are failing, but to see what the child is ready to learn. And kids that learn over the summer are rewarded, parents that enrich their kids lives are no longer considered system disruptors, but instead are patriotic citizens. Maybe not in my lifetime, but how can I go on advocating unless I believe in the mission?

    DD is checked out. The last couple months she has decided she doesn't care anymore. I found a stack of blank homework stuffed into the front hall closet. Her teacher is about to lose her mind, saying "I'm going to hold her accountable and not let this talent go to waste." And she continues to give DD third grade work that DD has no interest in. When I tried to comment that DD would probably be more engaged if given the correct level work, that was ignored and she continued to rant about DD's "poor choices."

    One of the nearby districts tests the kids and puts them at the right level. So something like 30 percent of kids are doing math a grade level ahead (and an actual curriculum!), but they stay in their grade. They told me if I enrolled DS it sounds like he's so far ahead it would be challenging, but they'd figure it out. Unfortunately, DS is sitting on a wait list.

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    My daughter has stopped doing any homework because she hates it. I have found homework with "hate" written on it with plenty of exclamation points. I told her she would have to explain to the teacher when it wasn't done (she tries to be a perfect student, which is an issue in itself, and I knew she would be unhappy with that). However, the teacher apparently doesn't care or just excuses it because her averages are all 99 or 100 percent.

    My daughter was skipped one grade in kindergarten, which worked well because she hadn't had a chance to form close friendships. She has changed schools repeatedly but says she prefers her current school, where kids do individual work at their own pace, even though she has better friends at the public school.

    Honestly, though, nothing has really worked and I don't know how much the acceleration helped in the long run (it was a huge help at the time, but only a temporary help as others have mentioned).

    She is tested to determine placement and allowed to skip work if she does a few exercises to show she can do it. However, she still has to follow a standard spiraling curriculum ("didn't I learn this in second grade?") and to test on each section. She can go more quickly, but with no challenge and with no practice managing homework (not that I want her to have lots of homework). It's not harder work, just more advanced. She recently had to write a story and enjoyed it, writing and illustrating about thirty pages that her teacher bound for her and had her read to the lower grades. When I signed her up for an independent writing program because she loves writing, she was shocked to receive feedback for improvement of her story instead of just hearing that it was wonderful and receiving a perfect score. She just doesn't get the experience of handling difficult work even though she is allowed to work quickly.

    So technically she should be in third grade but is placed in seventh grade math and high school English. It sounds great and is much better than any other options we have tried, but it still isn't a solution.

    So we just try to work out ways to add to her school work, like the independent writing program, and hope it will be enough.

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