Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion So aggravated...

I think you went to Dr Louis, right?

What Ach tests were administered? Depending on what grade they showed you may be able to convince the library to le him attend. Sure, the test only shows GE as the score that 50% of kids at that grade would score if given the same test but if the GE was way higher than the level of the target audience it might still carry sufficient weight.

Also Polarbear raised an excellent point - this may be aimed at showing ' mathophobes' that Maths can be fun more than preaching to the 'mathophile' choir. In that case I think that your son's enjoyment of the activity may be considerably diluted.

madeinuk, we have only done the first session, the second one is at the end of the month...but I believe the Ach test is the WIAT? We haven't gotten any scores yet, naturally, but when we do, that might be a useful thing to use.

And yes, if it was for 'mathphobes', that would have definitely diluted DS's enjoyment, so in theory, it might not have been the right place for him anyway.

Eh well, such is life. Onward and upward.

I did inquire about the process of facilitating our own event at the library - we'll see how that pans out.

Sorry it didn't work out, but in a few years this will be a distant memory. Is this your eldest/only? I know I worried over stuff like this when my kids were younger, then it didn't seem so aggravating when they were a bit older.

How they treat a younger kid is a legitimate concern. My 4th grader DD9 went to a different school this year, different school bus - kids on the bus gave her a bad time at first for sitting near the back - kids thought she was a 1st grader. Middle kid had similar experiences, but is now normal height at 16.

There may also be some legitimate legal concerns. Day care centers have to maintain certain student teacher ratios based on age. While this may not be the case at the library, and while I can't imagine how you might get hurt at a math class, if he got hurt and the insurance company stepped in, it could be a problem if he was significantly younger than the advertised class age.

As for some folks commenting on sports and age, I don't know how many parents I see trying to get kids on 18U teams when they are 14 for the college showcase exposure. In most cases, these kids are very good, but not DI stuff. I personally have seen kids lose out on opportunities because they want to be on the older team. It is different in sports than in academics. In sports, you want to be one of the best on the team. That gets you playing time so you can be seen and so you can improve in game situations. Being average on an older team means holding down the bench. Sorry for being off topic, but just wanted to note the difference.

I agree on the theory - it's just not valid for us... Nathan just loves soccer and it seems the harder the class is the happier he is. I don't think he cares at age 5 about who sees him doing what - he just wants to have fun and a bit of a challenge is his idea of fun.

Soccer in South Africa is not really a big sport at the senior/top levels - that would be Rugby and I am anti my kids playing that for a variety of reasons. I just wanna see my kid have fun kwim? not be the one always waiting for the rest of the group to get it...

totally agreed. It's just the reality though . But it so should be! The discrimination of anyone different is annoying. And even though here our entire history is steeped in discrimination, everyone does everything to ensure "equality" . I know we here have had many conversations about equal does not always mean fair, but in SA you dare not even try suggest that someone needs different.

Extreme example: If you follow athletics closely you will have heard of Oscar Pistorius. He is currently on trial here for murder of his girlfriend. There is a HUGE thing to ensure that there is no additional "sympathy" because he is disabled, and that there is no additional "treatment" because he is something of a celebrity. It doesn't really work because annoyingly it seems to be all everyone talks about. On all matters education there has been a HUGE drive to "standardise books, levels of education etc. To the national standards detriment IMO with our required matriculation pass rate in exams being an embarrassing 30%.

Anyway I hope my point is coming through clearly - The only way we will facilitate change is for us - all of us - to advocate all the time for anyone different; showing the world what true equality really is. The big catch is that we don't want our kids to hurry up and wait for the world to take notice.

It's a sucky place to be stuck.

Madoosa, at age 5 that is fine. Sounds like it is a class rather than travel soccer (which I hope is not available at 6U, though I have heard of travel baseball & softball in CA at 6U).

The problem is when you get into travel or club sports. From a legal perspective, there is no issue in the US in many travel sports with a younger kid being on an older team. While these kids may think it will be more challenging, there is no challenge when you sit on the bench.

Hope the OP finds an appropriate math challenge for her son. Unfortunately, that will be many years in the future in school - there is another thread about that.

We never attempted to put our DSwhen4 into a class like this, but if we had, any fears they had about his possible disruptiveness would have been a major underestimate.

One reason we like homeschooling is that our kids can be themselves without worrying about other people's expectations.

I understand our frustration Marnie but I would save my passion and frustration for other situations, and I'd also try to look at this from a different angle than simply young-gifted-child can't participate due to age. If this was happening at school and impacting your child's education, that would be something worth fighting for, and depending on the circumstances, possibly something you could make a legal argument against.

I also think that leading a group activity yourself is a great idea - not just for making the activity available for your child and for others, but also because it will give you the experience of planning and leading an activity for a group under similar circumstances. I've led quite a few group activities for children, and as the person who's doing the planning, you'll put thought into who you are trying to reach, what you want to do, how to execute the plan etc. I think it might help you see this particular experience through the eyes of the person who's leading it - while it may not make sense to you that she excludes children who are under 7, there is likely a reason she's planned the age range that she has and even though you don't agree with it, I'd try to respect that it most likely wasn't a thoughtless decision on her part but a purposeful decision. I suppose that can be construed as essentially me saying I'd give this person slack that I wouldn't give the school district.


It would have been easy for you to leave, but the other kids might be distracted by it, it might have taken time away from the work that the instructor had planned, it might distract the instructor's attention, it might take away the enjoyment and enthusiasm the instructor had and was conveying to the other kids who were attending. I think it's important to remember, this is a one-time event that is short in duration - which means it may not seem significant to you in terms of giving your ds a chance to attend, but it also means it's a one-time event with short-duration for the person who is leading it (and who is likely putting a lot of thought and planning into it ahead of time). She also doesn't know you and doesn't know that you'd "just leave", and she doesn't know that her idea of when that "just leave" moment has occurred is in sync with your feeling of when that "just leave" moment occurs. Those are all things that may be weighing into her decision.


Another approach is to let ds know that he wasn't old enough for the age range that the class was slated for, that you thought he would enjoy it anyway so you asked if he could attend, and that you were told no. Keep it simple - let him know you advocated for him. Advocacy doesn't always work, and you don't need to let him know you're upset about it, but it's ok to let him know that there was an age range on the class and he didn't get in because of it, but that you as his parent did ask. He's going to appreciate over the years all the times you'll stand up for him and advocate for him

Best wishes,

polarbear

polarbear, I do truly appreciate your trying to give me alternative perspective, and I would never have had any intention pushing this, especially on the legal end (it is far from worth it, plus, why force an issue with someone who clearly doesn't want you there? At this point, I wouldn't WANT DS in a class with this particular facilitator.) I was merely expressing my disbelieve at the situation.

I did tell the facilitator that we would leave if it was a problem, and while I do understand that we could have 'distracted the other kids' or 'taken away from a short period of time'...I don't know, I just think that that isn't a good enough reason. I mean, if one of the 7 years olds acts up (say, because his mom decided it was good for him to be there, but he really didn't want to, and then threw a fit about it) how would that really be any different? Because a 4 year is more likely to act out? No matter how much slack I cut the facilitator...it still itches like discrimination, you know? I don't mean it to sound dramatic, honestly...and maybe because this is our first REAL experience with this kind of roadblock, I am more sensitive. I am trying to let it go and use it as a learning experience. Part of the problem is that I don't like what this sort of thing means for the future...if something this insignificant is an issue...what about the big stuff? But we aren't harboring any crazy vendettas or anything. It just...rankles, that's all.

It is discrimination (distinguishing), but it is not UNJUST discrimination. They're not singling out your child. They're designing a program at a particular age group. I agree with Polar's observations. And I think it's quite important to recognize that no matter how gifted a child is, that does not always mean they will fit in well with older peers. Sometimes they will, sometimes they won't, and it is not unreasonable for the people who are running programs to make their best guess on what will work rather than letting parents do so.

I don't think you should take this as a bad omen for the future. As your child grows, he will be eligible for a lot more things. It will become clearer to adults what he's like, because he will be more able to show them. Things that are impossible to negotiate for in elementary school become possible in middle. It goes along, and it changes as it goes.