Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Help - what, exactly, am I dealing with here?

Hello, everyone! I haven't been here in a while but remembered what a fabulous resource this place is.

My son is 5 and my daughter just turned 4. They both attend a gifted preschool (private). My son will be entering kindergarden next year which required some testing, and my daughter is enrolling in a summer program which also requires testing.

So I've recently received a heap of data on my kids, and my head is spinning. Let me also say this --- we are joyfully expecting our third child to be born in September. This is relevant because I am thinking the cost of private gifted education may be a real strain, especially if all three "need" it... but if they need it we can make a lot of sacrifices to make it happen. I'm an awesome coupon clipper.

Any insights you can give me will be appreciated. Let's start with my son...

My son took the WPPSI-IV. His overall IQ was only 99.7 percentile (I think the score was 143), but the verbal section of the test was 150 and which was over 99.9th percentile. I was looking at the Davidson Young Scholar criteria was was shocked to see this verbal score would be a qualifying score.

We knew he was bright - he is extraordinary with math and has an equally extraordinary memory. But he is a handful. He is restless, extremely stubborn and strong-willed, and can be difficult to manage in a classroom. He was kicked out of two preschool programs before we found a private school that specialized in gifted kids. Now he loves school, and his behavior in the classroom has changed 180 degrees.

I am hesitant to take him out of the gifted private school and put him in public. Our only reason to consider it would be financial. For now, he's going to do Kindergarten at the private school and we'll have to reassess after that.

My daughter, just this last weekend, did a KBIT and KTEA-II - both brief screenings for a summer program. I don't have the official results yet, but the tester did review the with me. On the achievement test, she scored over 99.9th percentile for reading (the score was 155 - but I'm not sure what that means, might not mean anything if it's just a raw score). She said DD was "way off the charts" in her reading, which wasn't too surprising since she started reading at about 19 months. (sounds crazy, I know...) Her math was a bit lower at 99.8 percentile. The KBIT, which was an IQ screening, scored her at 99th percentile. I can't remember the IQ number, but it wasn't that high - maybe 139?

Because of her ultra-early reading, I half expected high scores from her. I don't know if these screening scores mean much, though. Her temperament is completely different than her brothers. She is very cooperative, loves school, wants to please teachers, etc. She is an easy kid to test. Behavior-wise, I think she'd be OK in a public school. But she is so different than most kids. Even most kids in her gifted preschool (her teacher confided in us that she is just on a different plane than all the other kids - and these are all supposed to be gifted kids). She seems years older than the other kids even though she is the youngest girl in the class.

I don't want to short-change her education just because she is an "easy" kid.

Gosh, this is a loooooong post. I guess I just don't know where else to go with this information and these questions. We don't talk about giftedness or IQ scores with friends or family. I guess I want to hear from parents with similar scores - can kids like this thrive in a public school? Should we bite the bullet and keep them in the private gifted school. The private school is outstanding, so far... the teachers are just fantastic. It has been a huge blessing to both our kids to be there. They are very happy, and very excited about school. I hate to mess it up by switching them to public to save $$.

Do you think it sounds like my kids are *gulp* PG? I associate that with so many more challenges... Are grade skips practically inevitable needed with PG kids? (Not sure if public schools allow that...)

If you read any or all of the above, thank you. I'd love to hear any thoughts you have share - even if it's just to tell me to relax. Thanks.

Master of None - thank you so much for the excellent advice. I will look more closely at our public schools, and other options in our area. I seem to remember,though, when we first moved here that the public schools didn't generally let kids skip grades. They have a gifted program, but it is pretty minimal - weekly pull-out class that starts in 3rd grade.



This made my shoulders drop with relief. I probably am worrying too much about this. I want the best fit possible, but there won't be any school that is a "perfect fit".

My daughter already shows signs of trying to fit in and not let her abilities shine. This school she is at has been just tremendous in working with her. They are encouraging her to read aloud (and proud) to her peers and she has made big strides in her confidence.

I've only recently, as in the past few months, realized that I never once told my kids that they are smart. This is how I was raised (also a 99+ percentile kid)... my parents had the best of intentions, but I didn't want to make that same mistake.

So I've started telling my kids - when natural in conversation - that they are smart and that is a special gift (in the context that everyone has different gifts and strengths) and something to be embraced and celebrated (but not bragged about). It has only come up a couple of times in the past few months, but I can tell my daughter's ears perk up when I am saying it. It's hard for me to get this balance just right since a very different approach was taken in my own childhood - but in just a few months I can already see a change, especially in my daughter, in her being more confident and assertive.

Hi sweetpeas,

I have two bright DC, both with VERY different personalities, also. One of them managed to get into trouble at pre-K and K because DC is so strong-willed and questions "EVERYTHING." The other was described by the teacher this year as "Mr(s). Perfect" (Ewwwwwww, right?), because (s)he is so compliant.

The longer I parent these children, the stronger I believe that so much of what we see as "personality" is innate. As the parent of a strong-willed, but extremely bright DC, these kiddos present unique challenges. Traditional parenting techniques will often fail, and teachers may simply conclude that these children lack discipline ("Strong-willed" DC has actually has probably spent 10x as much time on "time out" as "more compliant" DC - with minimal effect).

So I can relate to your post. I have found that a "good school year" all comes down to the "teacher-child" fit. You can have "poor-fit" teacher for your child at your private or your public school. I have taken every opportunity to ensure that "strong-willed" DC has had good teacher fits, and we have had some excellent teachers. My DC are both in public school. Like many schools, our schools do not have a G&T program until 3rd grade. No - definitely NOT a PERFECT fit. But I do feel our schools have some things going for them, in addition to some excellent teachers. Differentiation is utilized, taking advantage of the high student population. The high schools are also excellent, some of the best in the nation.

One word of caution - I try NOT to tell my DC they are "smart." I try to praise them for hard work, doing their best, and staying focused. My DC are still young and have many years of education them, so I want them to think of learning as something they need to keep doing. I want my children to learn to challenge themselves and try to learn something new every day. DC knows (s)he is in the G&T program at school, but I think (s)he also knows that there is a great deal of interesting things out in the world (s)he still can learn.

All of my best to you and your DC!

I think you got great advice there from pp.
My son recently took both those assesments as well, for a summer program. He is 7. Our ps also only have weekly pull outs starting at grade 3. We took him out of school to homeschool him because his school finaly screwed up big time this year. It was really a waste of time before that anyway. (Do I sound bitter?)

Anyway, I took our son to his first gifted classes at CTD at Northwestern last weekend and it was great! I am so glad to see him have a positive classroom experience! It is such a relief!

MON, thank you.

<3

I think every parent needs to assess the right approach here for their child.

Like you, I'm convinced that much of personality exists as hard-wired circuitry in the brain. This week I've been watching DW take on a new project which involves a skill she's only barely begun to acquire, and as she's making mistakes she's muttering a steady stream of variations of the theme, "I suck." Aha. So that's where DD gets it.

I've found myself giving both DD and DW variations of the same pep talk this week: You're smart, and you learn quickly. Mistakes are normal, and just part of the learning process. The thing you're trying to do now is a skill that takes practice and repetition. It'll get easier the more you do this. Etc.

In both of their cases, I believe they NEED that message about their intelligence in order to shore up their confidence against the weight of their natural self-doubts. Other results may vary.

Ah, good point, Dude. If I witnessed a "crisis of confidence," I too, would probably be prone to attempting to "bolster" my DC's confidence. Older DC, has, as of yet, seldom needed this, as this child seems to have been born with confidence to spare!

Yes. DD and I are both like this-- we're empathetic and self-critical people, innately. We have to be reminded that nobody actually expects perfection from us, and maybe we shouldn't either.

You all are just amazing. Thank you so much for taking the time to read my rambling post and then post such thoughtful responses. I really appreciate it and it makes me feel much less alone in trying to sort all this out in my head.

Loy58 - Thank you for sharing your experience, it was valuable to read. To be honest, I've read an embarrassing number of parenting books and never found one that was helpful in working with my son. He is maturing (slowly) and we are finding our groove in working with him. What works for him doesn't work for my daughter, and vice versa. You are absolutely right that the teacher-fit matters more than just about anything, especially with my son. This is year two for him at this private school and both years he has been fortunate to really connect with the teachers - both have been really fantastic. We are keeping our fingers and toes crossed that his Kindergarten teacher will also connect with him just as well. Excellent teachers can be found both at private schools and public schools - it is the luck of the draw, either way.


LRS - Homeschooling has always been in the back of my mind as an option, but our preference would be to have a school setting that works for him. So glad to hear your son likes CTD! That's what my kids are doing this summer. My son took his first Saturday class last session (he isn't enrolled this session) because they offered astronomy and he is obsessed (intensely obsessed) with space. He loved it - we lucked out and had a great teacher! Last year he did the Leapfrog program in the summer. Loved one class, hated two. It had everything to do with whether or not he liked the teacher. CTD seems to offer a lot of great resources that we keeping in mind as the kids get older.

Dude - I agree with what you are are saying, it depends on the child. My parents used the technique of never telling me I was smart, and when I asked about test scores they would say that most kids at my school scored the same (99+ percentile). It left me feeling so isolated and confused. I struggled to connect to same-age peers. It was frustrating and lonely. Now, I don't want to project all of my experience onto my kids --- but with my daughter I could see her heading in the same direction. Telling her that she is smart - not in a praising way, but just in a factual "this is something about you" kind of way - has already had a positive impact. If a child were gifted athletically, a parent wouldn't hesitate to tell the child he or she is naturally strong or fast and to him him or her build on that. When it comes to intelligence, though, people (including me!) get very reluctant to even mention it.


Master of none (and others discussing the issue of telling a child he or she is "smart") ---- Let me put this "you are smart" thing into context, at least for me personally. I've now mentioned my daughter's intelligence to her twice in her entire life. She struggles with confidence, especially shying away from letting her friends know how much she reads (both loves reading and has the ability.) Both times I mentioned it her it, it was in a natural context... not just random "praise". It was presented as factual... Once it was because at Sunday School they were talking about special gifts that God gives people (spiritual gifts). My daughter asked me if she had special gifts too. I told her that, like all God's children, she did indeed have special gifts. I told her that He gave her a kind and loving heart and he gave her intelligence. I told her that God has a special plan for her life (as we believe He does for everyone) and that I couldn't wait to see how she would use her gifts as she grows up. That was that.

(Sidenote: sorry to to get all "churchy" on you folks here. )

The second time, she was sitting and reading while I was making dinner. She put down the book and said in the grumpiest way possible "No one wants to read Magic Tree House at school." Then she said "No one CAN read Magic Tree House books at school, they only want to look at baby books." We talked a bit about it, and the conversation was basically that some kids are more interested in art, or music, or other things. I told her that she is an excellent reader, I'm glad she loves reading as much as I do. OK. Now that I type that out, I realize I didn't actually say "you are smart" this time. But I did tell her she is an excellent reader... so I guess I'm counting that still as the second time I told her she was smart because - to me - reading seems like an innate ability in her. We provide the books, but she seemed to come "pre-installed" with the ability to read.

I constantly hear parents praising their children for innate qualities - especially physical appearance or natural athleticism (not skill). No body blinks an eye when someone tells their child "Oh, you are so strong!" or "You have the prettiest eyes!"

Basically, my goal in telling my daughter that she is smart is that I want to her to understand that everyone is different... and that's OK. We can embrace the things that make us different, and build on them as strengths. They aren't something to hide or be ashamed of - it's all part of what makes her her.

I am sure I sound defensive... and that is probably because I feel all kinds of doubt as to whether not I am doing the right thing in telling her that she is smart. It seems that both times, though, she responded positively and her confidence has grown a lot in the past couple of months. (Which may be coincidental, to be fair.)

I gotta be honest folks... I have no idea what I'm doing. But I love my kids and I'm trying to do what is best for each of them, individually.

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts - I really appreciate hearing input and experiences from everyone here!

You may already know about the book Mindset by Carol Dweck? It is nicely summarized in these youtube videos:
Ashley Merryman & Po Bronson: The Myth of Praise (link- )
Carol Dweck: Teaching a Growth Mindset (link- )
One aspect or application of a fixed mindset is that some kids, in order to be seen as "right" or "smart", may stop taking appropriate risks, possibly shunning a challenge and preferring easy work which may represent a level of underachievement. A fixed mindset may work against them and be exhibited as a lack of resilience.