Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Offshoot of Parenting Arms Race Thread

That's one monster thread with a lot of interesting perspectives! I would imagine that most of the parents here know their viewpoints on the various issues and are unlikely to change them.

I read the McClean article and couldn't find any common ground with the derided trends, probably because my younger kids are only in 5th grade at this point. In our house, the kids are underscheduled (at their demand) and homework is completed whle waiting in the car pick-up lane and straight A+ are automatic without studying. That could all change by high school or even middle school. We'll see.

Actually, my thought today has more to do with the end-goal of the "parenting arms race". I graduated from an Ivy and DH from an Ivy equivalent a couple of decades ago. Notwithstanding these legacy advantages, I doubt that my children will end up at an Ivy (or equivalent) based on the perhaps even crazier competition in seven years. For a number of reasons, I am not even sure that I would nudge them toward our alma maters. However, I have one fifth-grader who has started asking about elite colleges and SAT scores, etc. None of this came from his parents. When I gave him the SAT math sections a year ago to gauge that he was around 600 with pre-algebra, I purposely hid that it was the SAT as well as his score. I have also decided against registering him for the SAT so far notwithstanding that I think he should be at that 700 mark by now having completed algebra (SET was the original reason for gauging/considering SAT at this young age). For some reason, DS' algebra teacher had some discussions regarding colleges with him and has been giving him a few SAT problems each week. I don't know if anyone else brought up the issue with him. Anyhow, I am getting the vibes from DS that he would like to attend one of those top tier colleges. This is the same child who has been asking about career options and making big money - it almost makes me feel inadequate somehow (LOL) because money has never been the focus in our household.

How would you respond if your child indicates a desire to attend a top-tier college? Would you encourage him? Would you bring him down to earth given the level of competition?

Our family rule is that you go where they will give you money to go for undergrad.

So, desire is irrelevant to the question, since it's one of cost.

75% off of Duke might be close enough, I suppose, but the target is "full ride merit scholarship".

As to your questions.... yes. To both. Yes, encourage. BUT... not at the expense of closing other doors, or tying identity to those particular hopes.

It sounds to me as though you have a very realistic view of things-- I'd just pass that along.

My DD ultimately opted out of pursuing an elite college-- even though I think her odds of entry were pretty darned GOOD, actually-- because she recognized on some level that she'd feel quite out of step with a campus full of "strivers" who view the world through that kind of competitive lens. It's not who she is.

I think that most of our kids will know by high school whether or not such a thing would suit them well. Given the odds and the crazy associated, though, you're right to think about "what if it doesn't happen, though..." which is where applying to TEN schools comes into things.

The young man who has been featured in the news media this week for having attained acceptances at all 8 Ivies? Yeah-- he applied also to UNC, Duke, etc. About fifteen schools in all. So he clearly wasn't thinking "It must be Harvard or I shall perish."

The odds of getting into an Ivy haven't moved all that much in the past decade or two. The odds of getting into THAT particular Ivy (any particular one, incidentally) have, however.


Common App just means that they get a lot more applicants.

If it comes up, I plan to approach it better than my parents (with no college education) did.

Competitiveness would only be in the conversation as a part of having a set of tiered choices that still led to the desired outcome. I would paint acceptance more as fickle than difficult. I'd include money, budgeting, financial aid, etc. as well as the general college experience (small vs. large schools.)

But still have some time before this comes up for us.

Jonlaw, I love your attitude!

DS will likely do the cost calculations himself and then ask me for the difference to invest . . . unless he somehow decides that he must go to a particular school.

My DS13 has been thinking and discussing about this for a few years now. At first it was Harvard. Then it evolved into Harvard or similar quality. These days a new possibility emerged in his head which is state flagship for undergrad. and Ivy for grad school. I tell him a couple of things: 1) as long as you are motivated and have goals and a plan to reach the goals, you will be fine anywhere (I honestly think the state flagship is his safety). and 2) there is unpredictability in college admissions. Be sure to be proud if you are a strong candidate, and don't mind it if they happen to not choose you.

HowlerKarma, you are right that the kids will have a much better sense of what they actually want by high school. One of the problem though is that it is hard to gauge the atmosphere of a particular campus unless you spent time there. Part of it is guilt on my part - I know how great these (at least mine) schools can be. I found so many people to whom I could relate and actually felt like I really belong in college.

Hmm, that's an interesting point about getting into an Ivy versus the Ivy. I haven't even looked into the Common App issue but to me the Ivies are not interchangeable as they have different characteristics (at least they did a couple of decades ago).

That was what I was missing - I was actually crazy enough not to have applied to any safety schools! In my defence, in those days there would have still been time to apply to the in-state universities after the letters arrive.

Yes, they do-- but something else to bear in mind (and I say this as an Academic)-- everyone thinks that their alma mater is "one of the great ones."

It's a peculiar kind of bias, that-- and it's not limited to Ivy alums. The fact of the matter seems to be that any college can be a "great" educational experience for almost any student-- given that the student has the proper mindset and approach.


People simply worry far more about this than they should, IMO. How many people do you know IRL that bemoan their choice of institutions? Not many, right?

I guess that "unpredictability" has always been there but somehow it seem worse now with such an over-abundance of qualified candidates.