Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Social Skills Group Question

Does anyone know or understand the money, school politics, etc behind school social skills pull-out group? My son is wrapping up his second year in "social skills" group (he's in 2nd grade). He likes the group - it gives him a "break from class" they "play games," it's "easy"... etc. He finds the neurodiversity interesting. However, my husband and I increasingly see it as completely unnecessary but every time we broach taking him out with the school they are very resistant. Frankly, we haven't pushed pulling him from it too much b/c DS, although he is confused as to the "why" behind his being int he group, is always like "I'm fine with it, I'll stay in the group it gets me out of the more boring classes and Mrs Counselor-running-the-group is super nice and likes me." But I am not sure why he is there. I am starting to get suspicious they want to keep him there. Honestly, my DS is "different" with his creative shocks and his high intelligence coupled with his dysgraphia and EDS but he doesn't seem to us to have any real (or not age appropriate) social skill problems at all. He has friends, he has a best friend, he plays sports, he describes himself as having many buddies so he sees himself as liked. We have kids ask and come over for "playdates." Now, he is not SUPER popular, and he is picky about who he chooses as a "friend," he has no problem playing on his own, and yeah he's a little weird with his "creative shocks" and his fidgetiness. But he seems fine to us. He is happy and never complains that he isn't liked. In fact he describes himself as "well-liked". He is a little shy, he definitely is introverted but he seems happy and comfortable with his nature.

Anyway, I want him out of it next year for a few reasons: 1) because he is getting so many pull-outs. He is getting an additional OT pull-out for typing, he is getting gifted pull-outs and he also gets one-on-one time with the counselor he likes so much just to chat about any anxiety; and, 2) I am starting to worry about the stigma that may start to come with being in the group. He has noticed that the kids in the group do have some serious social skills problems, he's even been able to start recognizing which kid has which challenge, e.g., "oh so-and-so seems like he's there for ADHD" or "so-and-so seems like he has issues stemming from being on the spectrum," etc (hence his confusion as to why he is in the group. I actually fibbed and said they like him to remain it as a good role model and good interaction for the others.)

My questions: Does the school get some sort of extra money for him in the group? (So odd to me that they fight me on something like scribing accommodations and even typing lessons but always seem more than willing to provide rather unnecessary things.) Why are they resistant to having him leave the group when I think it's obvious he's fine? I just find it really suspicious. What are your thoughts?

When DS was evaluated by a private neuropsych he displayed some rather odd behaviors and the neuropsych recommended it. Not "anti-social" behaviors, just quirky. His speech prosody is odd and so the speech therapist sits in on the social skills group to watch his speech and give him cues when he starts speaking with an abnormal prosody. I don't think the intent is to help him learn the "lessons" (apparently they have lessons on how to engage more positively with peers), but for him, it helps with his speech and having appropriate conversations with peers. I think so much time in the classroom is spent on academics or listening to the teacher with no spontaneous talking allowed that it is good for him.
Ask them why he is in it and what he is getting out of it. I think it's fine for a kid to be a little quirky as long as they fit in. Right now my DS fits in just fine and the kids don't seem to notice his quirks or oddities (he's only in first grade), but the concern is that if some of these quirks/oddities don't reduce themselves, he could get picked on/bullied as he gets older.
DS's old school seemed puzzled when I asked about a social skills group and I don't think they even do it. His new school (same district) read the neuropsych report and they are the ones who suggested adding it into the IEP.

Thanks all. Don't get me wrong, it's a lovely group and I think ALL children could benefits from social skills training etc., and DS likes it (they play games a lot) and it gives him a "break" so that has been the reason we have allowed it to continue but we have always been skeptical that DS needs it. He has an anxiety dx so that's how ended up in it because they do deal here and there with the topic of anxiety but mostly it's about taking turns, sharing, etc. (things with which my DS has never had a problem). And it is a pull-out. Now with the pull-outs ramping up due to gifted pull-out, additional OT pull-out, and math pull-OT I am concerned about it continuing (like I said). Also, his grade in science is the one the grade that keeps going down and that is when the pull-out occurs (although DS says this year teacher just is a boring science teacher and that's the reason his grade has gone down not due to the pull-out ). He had an "A" last year in science and this year it has dropped every marking period to a B (basic! that is a 3 grade drop! A, PH, P, PL and then B) And, like I said, as they get older I am concerned about stigma and he being the only one of his friends that needs the class...

Oh and he has no social skills goals at all ...It just says in the iep that he is to participate in it.

I agree with the others who said that he's serving as a role model in the group. It is possible that they need to have kids with IEPs be the role models for funding/bureaucratic purposes.

Anything that's included in the IEP should have a goal attached to it as well as clear steps to measure progress toward meeting the goal.

This is what I'd suggest: (and, as always, I suspect you already know this because you are an awesome advocate for your ds!):

1) Ask whoever actually is in charge of working with the group what skills your ds is working on and how the group functions during the pullout - what activities do they do etc.

2) Call an IEP meeting to discuss the social skills pull-out. Do this via email, and include within the body of the email a statement that you want to amend the IEP to drop the social skills group. Include whatever reasons you feel are relevant.

3) At the meeting, if you get push-back and the team wants to keep it as part of the IEP, ask specifically *what* the goal is for your ds, and then if a goal is offered, ask what data they have showing he needs to work toward that goal. If they have no data, request that they acquire the data, and that your ds be pulled out until the data has been acquired and the team can reconvene to review the data. If they pull data out of an "old" report - request a new set of data, given that your ds has had (fill in the blanks) ___ months to progress from the previous set of data. You can also mention any strengths or abilities he has that you've seen that the team is claiming he needs to work on.

I also have a comment re - if he's in there as a role model. Role models play an important part in social skills groups, but there is a different way to approach it rather than having one student who happens to have something he could work on at the same time be in the group simply because he is a good role model. The way our elementary school tackled this problem was to rotate the nt kids out of class one or two at a time to work with the students who were working on social skills, one pull-out at a time. The work was fun for the nt kids - they got to play games and miss class and go to the cool therapy room and all that cool stuff. My dds *loved* this - as did most of the kids in their classes. When you rotate through the full class, it takes some of the stigma out of the pull-out for the kid who is there all the time, because it helps the kids understand what he's working on and also see that it's not really some bizarre odd out-there thing. Plus it's fun. And when you're rotating through the kids, that means in a typical-sized classroom any one child is only going to get picked to be a part of the pull-out as the role model maybe once per quarter or semester (depending on how frequent the number of pull-outs is). Irena, if your IEP team even *hints* that your ds is in their as a role model, insist that it end and suggest this (or some other) alternative.

OK, off my role model soapbox!

Good luck!

polarbear

If it's part of his IEP, they should have a specific listing of goals and reports on progress.

DS was in social skills groups for two or three years, as part of his IEP, and there were (at least dubiously) measurable goals for him -- "DS will identify and use the correct tone of voice (scale of 1 to 5, whisper to emergency voice) in 3 out of 5 instances" or something like that. They had the voice levels, taking turns talking, responding to questions properly, etc. We got reports on his progress at each IEP meeting. When they felt he didn't need it anymore, they removed the group from his IEP.

Oh, and yes, they probably get money for it somewhere along the line.

Thanks all. Yeah, no measurable goal at all. We do get a general report at the end of semester about what they worked on as a class, etc. SO, I asked DS today about taking him out of it for next year (after posting about it here) and he says he wants to stay in it. (eye roll) I guess there isn't any stigma with it or any negative self-image because of it! He also is excited that a kid he's friends with is joining the group next week. According to DS, this friend is joining because an older brother is in the group. The kid that is joining is excited to join b/c his brother is in it and my DS is in it.I have no idea what to think. LOL. I guess I should just be happy DS likes it. Still, I am worried about all the pull-outs! Well I'll be ready for next year and prepared with the advice from here to start the process of pulling him out if necessary.

So thanks! And thanks for laying out the process for me step by step Polarbear! Very useful!

My DS9 is currently in a social skills pull out as well, and since he's made great strides socially in the past couple of years I haven't really questioned it.

The stigma aspect is interesting - I hadn't really thought about that. I don't think it's an issue at our school because apparently there are many kids being taken out to various pull outs on a regular basis, so the other kids don't really bat an eye.

Same here -- as far as I know, none of the kids ever thought anything of it, because DS was always going somewhere for something, and other kids go off to things as well.

I have volunteered a lot in my child's school and with my observations I do not think there is any stigma for being pulled out of class. In fact, it seems like many, many children get pulled out for varying reasons and it is just accepted by the other students.

Sorry, I do not have any experience with your other questions.