Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Average IQ - High Average Academics - NO PROOF!

Just met with special Ed team. One victory in that we will finally have a. 504 written. They have observed sensory issues and attention issues. No learning disabilities at this time and no need for special services... However...

Overall IQ came to 103. This just doesn't fit with the observations they are making and what so many feel - the kid is gifted.
The special Ed teacher said she had never tested a child in all of her life that acted "more adult like" during testing. She said that after each subtlest he was anxious and needed to know how many points he had earned and if he did well. She said he was anxious and that as the testing continued the latter tests had lower scores as the anxiety increased. They also note his vocab and his ability to observe and recognize things that most kindergarteners don't. He is on task and does his work when at his desk but group and center activities cause him issues and he is constantly correcting peers.

His academic scores were all "high average" and I have to ask at what point did he reach a ceiling. At what point do they say, we aren't testing past a certain point? They were impressed he could spell hat! I wanted to tell them at 1st quarter he spelled orange but they didn't realize the first class he was in was advanced but had a poor teacher fit. No we have a great teacher, but no advancement.

My second thought - he is 2e. He has sensory issues and attention issues. How can you test a child like this? Someone who tests 2e kids told me they rarely qualify for gifted programs. So all these teachers who know him outside of school feel like he should be in a gifted program. Will his scores improve with age? Will he at some point qualify based purely on academics? As he gets older I can see him improving in attention. Every year he is a little more in-sync.

I'm just frustrated that we can't prove it!!!

I think that you need to pursue private testing as the testing results at your school are not matching what you are seeing. Maybe take the private test results back to the school and see if you can change their attitude.

hnz, what grade is he in? If he's in anything above kindergarten, I think I'd be concerned about the level of instruction for most kids in his school (seriously!).

Anyway, re 2e and testing - for my kids, school testing didn't work out terribly well because of lack of motivation on the part of the school staff to really understand what was going on. Having a full neuropsych workup that included executive functioning etc type tests really helped *me* tremendously as a parent because I was able to understand the challenges - what was causing issues and how to accommodate/remediate.

With any testing (private or through school) it's really important to understand what subtests are involved, what each subtest requires the child to do, whether or not it's timed or untimed, how the question is asked (oral vs reading etc), how the question is answered (oral vs written etc), were there ceilings on the test, and what was the behavior of your child during the testing (anxiety, rushing, relaxed etc). You know that your ds was anxious and that potentially skewed the results. You can also look at the individual subtest scores to see if anything correlates with areas you've seen your ds struggle in school. It sounds like you might not know whether or not there were ceilings on the achievement testing and whether or not your ds hit them. If you don't know, ask for that info - the school should be able to tell you.

I would also ask the person who administered the test how they replied when your ds asked if he was "doing well". I don't know if there are guidelines re what a tester can and can't say during the test, but if it was my child asking the questions, whether or not their anxiety was reduced might depend on how that question was answered. In *every* situation where my children have been tested (with the exception of school) the tester has given us suggestions re what to tell our children prior to testing about what to expect and what the purpose of the testing is - so that our kids don't go into it worried about "doing well". With school, there was no prior work at making sure the kids understood it was testing just to understand how they learned, and that they should just answer with what they thought was the answer and not worry about getting answers "right" etc - and there was also no specific forewarning re what day it would happen. My ds, for instance, was pulled out of an elective class which he'd been looking forward to for months on the morning after he'd had a huge fall while ice skating and had a huge huge headache. He was not a happy camper! And the tester was downright mean - saying things like "I know you can do better" etc. All that said, my ds works ok under pressure and I think his results were valid. For a kid who was anxious about testing, it would have been a disaster.

I can't remember - has your ds ever had a neuropsych eval? Are you positive there isn't something more behind the sensory and anxiety?

Best wishes,

polarbear

I don't have any neuropsych info. The dept at our local children's hospital would not take our child as he doesn't have seizures or head trauma etc.

I do think the academic tester was kind, she is a spec Ed teacher. I do know they broke up the testing for IQ and academics. However, high average academics doesn't match average IQ.

Our ds is in kindergarten. I think he is probably a grade level ahead in many areas. At least in reading. At spelling he is advancing. His handwriting is still poor so it handicaps writing. He loves the computer and since we bought him a leap pad he is trying to spell more new words.

Now he has had two IQ tests. Don't we have to wait a certain number of years to retest? The OT thought it was interesting because he remembered parts of the OT test he had in September and his scores were higher. But he kept trying to work around the rules and to continue past the time limits.

Is there a "sweet spot" for IQ testing concerning age?

Both of my kids are 2e and I'm not sure how that affected their test results. DD was medicated when she took the test and therefore appeared "normal" except for her speed (very slow).

In the report on my DS, who was just over 6 when given the WISC, he was hyper, excessively cheerful, and answered questions standing up, or paced around the room whenever possible while being tested. But once he was given a task he settled down pretty well. It's so hard to say if kids are performing to the best of their ability because the testers don't know them. So if a kid says "I don't know" to a question, a parent might think (of course he knows that), but how would the tester have any idea? Still it sounds like he was trying his best, it's just a question of how much did anxiety affect things.

DS was also tested at age 3.5 and he was very off task and acting ridiculous during that test (I witnessed that one), and his scores did go up a lot between then and age 6. Although by age 6, a kids scores are probably fairly accurate assuming they were doing their best and not overly anxious.

DS has Developmental Coordination Disorder and was tested after a skull fracture/brain injury. It's questionable whether he had double vision or not at the time he was tested. We had just stopped patching his eye around that time. I think the TBI and/or the DCD affected the tests that involved motor skills (mainly coding and block design). I took him back 5 months later and the psych repeated just the working memory section to check the brain injury plus ADHD. That went up about 8 IQ points. On the first test after the brain injury his GAI was around 133. So it is possible for a 2e kid, even one who acts hyper during the testing, to score as gifted. Probably a lot depends on the tester and how they manage the child.

I would wait at least another year or two before re-testing. The score may change, or it may not.

I agree. We are waiting. I do think the scores are not accurate. Our ds if not gifted, is at least high average. I also think that since in academics he scored low on understanding directions, this could impact his test results. However in his first K class (advanced class) the teacher felt he was bored and that she needed to step things up a little because he was very intelligent. So even in the "high functioning" class he was ready for more. It's really a shame that teacher was so horrible in demeanor. She doesn't work with any children who have 504 or IEPs. My gut says he won't be able to prove his intelligence until he has matured quite a lot. Maybe never on an IQ test. But somewhere In academia he will find a spot he excels and he will be able to prove his abilities. Probably science like his father.

I would wait a few months, maybe a year, then I would test privately with a well known child psychologist.

I think more IQ testing is not going to get you where you need to be at this point and time.

I would play the what if game...
If his IQ had come back higher what would be different at school? Do they have a real G&T for kindergarten? I think many schools do not.
If the scores had come back higher, would things change with his attention and sensory issues?

What would make school life better for your son? You can advocate for those things without the scores (but agree that would have made life easier!!!).

Best of luck.

@expat mama - they don't have gt K but do have gt in 1st grade.

One, I don't think they understand ds. If they understood personality issues, intensity issues, frustration issues over perfectionism, etc. they would be able to manage behaviors better.

Second, ds is bored. While some students benefit from pull out sessions because their reading is behind, he would benefit because his reading is advanced. His spelling is advanced. Instead of coloring sight word books, let him read something appropriate of his choosing. He wants to learn to type and he seems to enjoy the challenge of spelling more difficult words by typing over writing (or dry erase vs. pencil and paper). He still needs to learn to write correctly though, so I understand the hand writing. I also think he has a better grasp on mathmatics than they think.

I remember in college algebra being able to figure out word problems in my head. I couldn't explain how, i just did it. ( Of course i got zero credit) Our ds is somewhat like that. He can show you an angle or use the word hypothesis and do a five year old experiment based on his limited reasoning, but he cant always tell you what those words mean. He told me one day that five, plus five, plus five, plus five is twenty but I don't think he understands what he is doing. He doesn't know what a minus sign is yet. Sorry I'm rambling...I just feel powerless in this. He's more than his disabilities and I just want them to see that.