Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment ACT with writing

My ds13 took the SAT in 6th and did very well (NUMATS-recognition level, but certainly not 800s). He'd like to do it again this year (8th), I think as a "reassurance" that he is in good shape for HS (the teachers went a bit overboard in scaring kids as they signed up for honors/AP classes for next year). NUMATS is close by and so it is a pretty simple thing to take it, but I'm wondering about the writing. Writing is probably his weakest area; although he's better at technical writing and certainly good at grammar, he's not the type to ever write fiction for fun, nor is he a quick writer. He had an IEP until last year for expressive language. He wants to take the ACT because he can add writing and he (and we) would like to see how he does. However, I also don't want him to be discouraged. Have your younger teens taken the writing test? How did they do? Should he try to prepare at all or just take it cold? I'm not interested in recognition, but I worry that if he does poorly he'll be very stressed about AP World in 9th (the teachers emphasized that you need to write at a college level). Any thoughts or feedback?

Well, I can tell you that of the two tests, having the writing at the START of the test might give you a clearer picture than on the ACT, where it is at the END of it.



DD took her SAT at 13yo (just before her birthday, in fact)-- her writing scores were not awesome but then again, we also suspect a CTD that impacts longhand writing, and she kind of fluffed it on the day, KWIM? But it was certainly 90th percentile plus. Caveat, though-- she had already had 3 full years of high school English, and a year of AP Literature.

She took the ACT at 14yo, six months later (after the summer, basically) and her writing score was only about 80th percentile there. She admitted that she was in SERIOUS pain by that time, and that she thought it was far from her best writing. I'll also say that I thought she was significantly off her game after a summer off. If she took it now, the physical limitations aside, I think she's capable of 99-ing that section. She was when she took the SAT, too, on the right day, anyway.

Okay-- my summary of that info:

1. College writing as measured by SAT/ACT ain't what it used to be. Think formulaic "five paragraph essay."

2. College bound STUDENTS also, apparently, ain't what they used to be either-- because while I don't know just how bad her ACT essay was, I believe that I'd have given that essay a "D" if she says that it "sucked." And yet it was still better than 80% of her peers who took it with her. That certainly tells ME something.

3. Don't necessarily believe all the hype you hear about AP coursework, because part of the PURPOSE of those classes is to develop college-level writing, analysis, etc. Yes, they are a LOT of work relative to the honors/regular offerings, but generally HG+ kids without a 2e issue getting in the way can keep up with them quite handily through sheer speed and efficiency. How long does it take your son to, say, read 100 pages? For his classmates, the answer is "hours and hours-- days, probably..." For my DD, more like "about an hour."

If he took the SAT, he already had to write an essay. I think most kids would find the ACT essay easier, since those essays deal with topics your kid is probably familiar with - school, social media, etc. The SAT essay is typically a philosophical arcane topic.

Additionally, the ACT essay score does not figure into the Composite score, while the SAT essay figures into your Writing score. I think he would prefer the ACT.

Thank you, HK! Your feedback was very helpful and reassuring; although my son is not a fast writer, he is an extremely fast reader, which sounds like it will help!
I didn't realize that the placement of the writing varied on the two. My older children-both out of college-took these tests back in the dark ages, before the writing section became the norm.
And it's reassuring to remember that the writing he will do is compared against the "average" college-bound student, not a very gifted college-bound student. Sometimes, when your siblings and friends are all varying degrees of gifted, you lose perspective on what is normal!

He took the SAT reading and math only, as part of his gifted program. I mentioned the NUMATS standards just as a reference (the test length or difficulty wasn't what worried me, just the writing).
I am feeling not very bright right now, but I didn't realize that the current SAT has a required writing section (it's been a very long time since dh, I, or our much-older kids took it). NUMATS mentioned adding on the ACT writing section for a fee, so I mistakenly thought that the writing section was only available for the ACT through NUMATS.
Although arcane philosophical discussions sound right up ds's alley ;), I think that life experiences at 13 would limit one's ability to write well on that type of thing, as opposed to the more straightforward ACT subjects, so it was helpful to learn the difference. Also, since we are doing this mainly to pinpoint his readiness and strengths and weaknesses, I think it would be more helpful to have him scored separately on each section.
Thank you so much for the input!

Not sure if this is still helpful as your son might have already decided (or taken) one test. But my DS13 took ACT this year (SAT last year) for the purpose of applying to summer programs. He did ACT with writing. We didn't let him over-prepare. But we bought one of those prep books which had a few writing topics from previous tests, and we let him practice coming up with an outline quickly. Namely, when he sees a topic, we give him a few minutes to decide what points he wants to write about and in what rough order--but not really doing the writing. This way the practice doesn't take much time but he is not going in completely cold. When the test score came back there was also a brief evaluation of the writing section.

What does he get out of taking either the SAT or the ACT in 8th grade? Does he need this for any particular summer program or class his is going to take?

If not, personally I wouldn't have him take either of them at all. The writing for both the SAT & ACT isn't what he should be striving for in his writing ability. If you can write well, the writing for the SAT/ACT shouldn't be difficult. But learning to get good grades on these standardized tests doesn't make a good writer. Both of these tests are graded more on difficulty of words, grammar, and length than if the essays are well thought out.

I hear you about the teacher freaking the kid out about the high school honors classes. But the skills in doing well on the ACT or SAT, aren't the skills he needs to do well in the honors classes. (At least at my school.) My son (15 TOday!!) hasn't taken either exam yet. I have considered it for entrance to a summer program, but didn't bother when my son was uninterested in the class.

My daughter took the ACT twice a few years ago. The writing portion of the test is shorter than that for the SAT as Howler said taking at the end of the test. The ACT test is graded on a 1-8? score? I don't remember getting a lot of feedback.

Sometimes there are interesting effects taking these tests. A friend of mine whose brilliant son had struggled many years in school, transferred multiple times, and got in trouble with teachers/principals all the time. His grade, needless to say, was horrible. (But things turned completely in high school, he had a great experience and went on to an Ivy League school.) My friend let her son take ACT in 8th grade, and he scored so well that his confidence came back to him right away.

We thought about SAT/ACT last year after hearing this story. My son at that time was miserable in our public school (we ended up transferring him to a private gifted school which didn't really work out that well either), and was feeling hopeless and helpless. In the end, his SAT/ACT scores were useful for him to get in summer programs, but it was obvious that the scores really boosted his confidence.