Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Leveled reading systems

I have a question for everyone who is commenting about not liking the leveling systems, as is being discussed in another thread. My daughter's school uses AR and I don't like it. It seems like basic factual recall. I've heard teachers at two different schools say the kids should take notes and study the books for the tests, but that seems to me like an effective way to make reading go from her favorite activity to a chore. It seems like one thing to really study a difficult book for an English class to understand it and analyze it, but very different to have to take notes on little details that won't have longer term importance.

So for those of you dealing with leveled systems at school, do you try to make it work for you as an educational exercise or do you just encourage your child to read whatever they like? I just don't even see the point of making her check out certain levels if her ZPD is so broad that she could check out a tenth grade book (if they had more than a few at that level), but most of what she checks out is at an upper sixth to seventh grade level (according to AR). I think it would make more sense to switch from AR to letting her explore interesting books in more depth without focusing on levels.

In the early grades, it seems clear that kids should be able to read challenging books that they enjoy and asking for higher levels seems straightforward. It is very different once challenging books would be beyond what is normally read for relaxation when there is no framework to have rewarding discussions and feedback on those books (like one would have in a good college English class or book club). However, the leveled systems don't seem to allow at all for starting to focus on depth and meaning instead of just choosing certain books.

Edited to add that she does very well on the tests with a 96 percent average. The problem is not that she does't do well on the tests, it's that I don't feel like it's contributing anything to her education except for the obvious value that reading is good!

My kids enjoy AR. My daughter left first grade with 200 points, and she currently has 210 with two quarters left in second grade. Her average book level is 6, and her percentage ranking is 96. All my kids have extensively tested, and because I know my way around the system, I volunteer at the school to teach how to use the program.

If a child is flunking the AR test on a book, there is a reason because the tests are extremely easy. You have multiple choice questions asking you to parrot back information from the book. I mean, they are as straight forward as this:

How did the Harry's first quiditch match end in Sorcerers Stone?
A. It was canceled because of rain
B. Draco Malfoy cast a spell on Harry and he broke his arm
C. Hermione was hit by a broom and the match was canceled
D. Harry caught the snitch in his mouth

That could be a test question!

If the child has read the book, they should never score below an 80. If they can not pass the test, they are either reading above their comprehension level, didn't read the book, or have some sort of reading problem. When a child was consistently flunking AR tests, I would give them a straight forward book to read with a known easy AR test (like Cynthia rylants Henry and Mudge series). After they tested on one they read independently, I read another from the same series and let them listen and then test again. Most of the late emergent readers would score 100% on books they listened to! and flunk the ones they read alone.

Some series are more complex than others. You would be surprised. Because Magic Treehouse contains elements of nonfiction, the tests are more complex. In general, the nonfiction tests are harder because you have to remember lots of minutiae. For instance, my little twins have never played baseball and one took an AR on a Pete the cat baseball book. Since the book focused on definitions and terms from baseball, he flunked it. I knew he would flunk it, because I knew he didn't understand the baseball terminology. I mean, for real. He flunked Pete the Cat, LOL.

I don't agree then, to study for the tests unless its a nonfiction book, since the information is much more specific.

The only time I was nervous about my daughter taking AR was when she jumped several levels at once. For instance, she one day in k class when she was five, picked up a novel and started reading it. It may have been sorcerers stone. I was not sure she was reading the book, because she had been reading mr putter and tabby and bad kitty. It was such a huge level jump that I didn't think it was possible she read it at all. In these cases, we would go to book adventure (a free website) and let the kids take their free test on the book. Generally their results were closely tied to how they did on AR. If they flunk a book Adventure test, I put the book away and say we can revisit it later on.

Oh, by the way. One reason they don't like for children to select books above their reading level is because they pass challenge and move into "frustration". The frustration level can impede reading and cause a child to stop reading.

And from personal experience as both an early reader myself and the parent of an advanced young reader, sometimes when the child reads above their level they do not check pronunciation of words and their inner voice comes up with a phonic that's incorrect. This has happened with my daughter when a series books that has words that do not obey phonics (maybe words with a French origin). There was a particular word that it took forever to relearn pronunciation of because her reading it her own way repeatedly over the course of a book imprinted an incorrect pronunciation. This happened to me as a child as well. We sort of solved this on our own by getting her a kindle. She can now tap a word she doesn't recognize and we encourage her to do so.

I don't think the child's ability to pronounce an obscure word id an indication of reading level, unless reading aloud it would be irrelevant, nor to I think the ability to remember trivial details is an indication of reading skill. Some books while entertaining enough during reading are simply not memorable enough to recall much. Personally having to write about or do tests on books would ruin the pleasure and I would either read less or lie about what I was reading.

I know you are talking about higher levels, but I am currently experiencing frustration with this with my DD's preschool. They are giving her level C readers, where she does encounter an occasional word she hasn't read before and needs to sound out. But at home she reads level J, talks about it, asks questions, and also encounters the occasional word she needs to sound out. DD(4y 1mo) doesn't like the repetitive nature of the level C readers but when they see she gets "tired" (AKA bored) and stumbles on one word, they assume it is her level. I just wrote a very heated email to her teacher (now regretting it) trying to explain this. But I just get so frustrated with having to go through this at every school (we just moved in January).

I don't believe in it personally. But it is the vehicle in which my son gets to read above level books although independently. The school just got in some new expensive sets of books that are also leveled fiction and nonfiction for leveled guided reading groups but I doubt his teacher will be setting him up in a group of one...he will probably be in the book group with whatever the highest is I his class...not necessarily his outlier level.

With AR, There are actually three kinds of tests in the system...vocabulary, multiple choice comprehension of basic facts of the story, and a third test that tests more literary elements. Not all the books have vocabulary or the lit analysis test.

I have edited my post because it was unclear. She gets 100 percent on almost every test, so it isn't a problem that she's failing them. I'm not asking for her to pick books above her level (the library only has half a shelf that would fit that description!). I'm just trying to figure out whether I should be trying to make it more educational by requesting something different. For example, I could ask them to make her level more narrow (apparently the levels are made very broad for higher levels because most recreational fiction is written at about a level 5 or 6, so it is harder to find good choices at higher levels, but reading at the lower end doesn't seem as though it is pushing a child to get more comfortable with more difficult work in the same way that a child with a lower range is being pushed). I could also ask for comprehension tests or for her to write about what she has read.

Alternatively, though, I can just let her enjoy picking out books without worrying about it. The tests don't bother her and she has special permission to get 2 books at one time instead of one, so she just feels like it's the same as getting books at the local library. I've asked them to let her get any level book (lower or higher) for her second book so she has more flexibility.

So I just don't feel she is learning anything from it at present, although she is enjoying the books, and am just torn about it. I'd like to feel she was learning at school! I'd like to feel like she was being pushed a little because she needs to be comfortable with doing things that are challenging.

Also, my daughter does run into the problem of learning mispronunciations through learning new words from books. I don't see it as a problem, though; I did the same thing. I just correct her if I hear a word like that and have installed the feature on her Kindle to check definitions and pronunciations.

But that's just it, Puffin. They don't pick trivial details. They pick obvious elements and primary themes from the story that you would have to either not have read or not comprehend to miss. My daughter has never failed one of the tests yet. Neither has one of my little twins.

About pronouncing words wrong, if the issue with the child advancing to the next reading level is phonics...? What was happening is my daughter did not learn to read by phonics. She was an early reader (3) and I didn't know what I was doing. I read to all four kids at once, with the book upside down in my lap so they could all see the pictures. She took a mental picture of each word, and memorized what I said the word was. This worked great when she was reading Outloud, or when I was reading Outloud. But once she started reading silently (5), I was not there to tell her the correct way to say the word. So, then she goes and takes the schools STar Literacy tests and she applied her own (phonics) to the test, thinking of how she would say that word based on memorizing similar words. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it did not. We wound up taking her k class summer and comprehensively teaching her phonics and it's not been a problem again.

But, as far as reading words you can decode but don't understand, this doesn't make sense to me ither, maybe I am missing something. My youngest twin is hyperlexic. He could read German at age four if handed to him, perfectly getting the phonics. How would this have benefitted him? He would not have understood what he read. In the same way, we waited until his understanding caught up with his phonics skills before sending him ahead in books. And sadly, he has lost most of hat hyperlexia which I read happens with children who are hyperlexic but not autistic. He still reads about four grades ahead though, so we are happy.

Apm, kindle is awesome for that very thing! If she gets 100 at my school, she can keep advancing until she gets a 70 - several- on a new level. That's when they ask you to stop.

Remember, I am talking about an 8 year old and not a younger child. If there is a word she doesn't know, she can often easily figure out the meaning from the context. If she thinks she knows how to pronounce it, there is no need to look up the pronunciation. So sometimes she does learn the wrong pronunciation, but I think this happens to anyone who reads a great deal and learns vocabulary that way. It's just important to pay attention and make corrections when needed. I don't think it suggests she isn't understanding well enough or shouldn't read that material.