Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Looking at ADHD diagnosis/Standford Binet/Woodcock

After special Ed meeting it looks like they are pointing out behaviors and starting a Connors due to ADHD behaviors.

In ds new classroom he is up more and talking and making noises. His new class has less structure. However his teacher pointed out that he speaks and thinks differently than most five year olds. Vocab is very advanced, unique interests, and long creative stories. While his handwriting is poor, his Peabody scores were all 2's pointing to more advanced skills.

School OT believes he is suffering from anxiety, hence the chewing of clothes at school but not at home. Two members of the team say they have seen the behaviors in very bright children. Starting Stanford Binet and Woodcock in January.

How do I get ds help? Standard ADHD meds don't work well with children who have anxiety. DS is so thin already i fear the consequences of stimulants, and how they may effect his fragile sleep routine. I already have ds on a multivitamin, fiber and DHA. Trying healthier eating. Will he ever survive public school? I feel like falling apart. I've seen so many children with ADHD fall apart emotionally due to their behaviors and the school environment, translating to low self esteem.

Does he have ADHD behaviour outside of school? Did he have ADHD behaviour and chew his clothes in his previous class? Do *you* think he has ADHD?

Last year (grade 1) the school recommended that we test DS for ADHD-I. We didn't think that was it but knew there was something going on that we wanted to get to the bottom of. Turns out he's gifted but with extremely low processing speed and low working memory. With the increasing writing expectations in grade 1 which were extra challenging because of the processing speed and the boredom that came from a teacher that treated him like he was below average rather than above (based on his slow work) and then add on that her class was extra chaotic and we had a kid that looked like ADHD-I. Fast forward to this year and we have a much stronger teacher who is better at differentiation, he's allowed to have things scribed when needed which takes the edge off his frustration, a DS that understands that writing is challenging but not because he's "stupid" and he is a completely different kid. When we told him that it is possible to be really smart but to have a hard time with writing it was a huge relief to him, I could actually see him relax.

I have no idea if any of that will apply to your situation but hopefully a good tester will help you get to the bottom of what ever is going on with your DS. Last year was really rough for us but we came out much stronger in the end. Our public school has been great once we started advocating and worked together to get him a better fit for this year.

Good luck!

That actually makes me feel better! At home ds can focus and write sight words from memory. He also spells well verbally. His behavior has been much more hyper since he started school. Plus Christmas is rough every year.

I think Ds could have lower processing speed and working memory issues also. Ds has also been much moodier since starting K. Those things manifested in first IQ test (slower processing speed/working memory). The school special Ed says they aren't accurate because they did the whole battery in one day. They are going to test a little at a time.

I have ADHDish symptoms sometimes also, which don't usually present unless I'm under stress. I can handle a lot of work and work very quickly, but under stress I look like "flighty". Since ds has had problems I go through packs of gum like crazy and drink too much soda. And forget things, and don't sleep as well. It's all stress, and a particular type of stress does this to me. Not all stressors make me feel this way, but this is my baby!

I also had accelerated classes in HS, which challenged me and kept me busy, and I thrived. Moved to another state and I got bored and caused mischief.

So ds is stressed, and his schedule is like the military due to long days. And, school is probably boring. My husband had anxiety issues in school a d never "fit" in. He's also the smartest man I've ever met.

So we believe 100% ds is gifted. ADHD? Maybe. Possibly? He also has sensory issues, remove the sensory stuff and he is a different child. It's all so complicated!

Praying next year he gets the smartest and best teacher in 1st grade.

hnz1979, you mentioned that your ds has been through a psych eval in a previous post this fall and noted this:


I think this was a private eval (?). And now it sounds like your ds' school wants to evaluate - not for learning challenges, but for ADHD or anxiety (OT comment). This is jmo, but from our experience I feel that it's best to get the diagnoses for medical and emotional/behavioral issues from private professionals, and that the school's role is not diagnosing, but evaluating how your child is functioning in the education setting - not the same thing as diagnosing ADHD. It's possible I'm interpreting what is happening incorrectly, so if I am - please ignore my reply!

I wouldn't necessarily *not* let the school do their eval - but I would suggest two things:

1) Was your private psych a neuropsych? There was a mention of potential LD and a suggestion to return for further eval in two years, presumably when it would be easier to determine what the root issue is, ADHD, LD, sensory. If the evaluator wasn't a neuropsych, I suspect a full neuropsych eval might pull out more definitive info for you, and that would be info I'd really want to have at this point. In addition to getting closer to understanding his diagnosis, I think that you need to move from things such as letting him scribe when he needs to "take the edge off" to a clear plan of when he needs accommodations and what should be provided, and a neuropsych eval can help with formulating the plan, which gives you a document and direction to start from when advocating at school.

2) I'd request that the school consider LD along with looking at ADHD/behaviors/whatever they plan to look at in their testing. If you think there is a challenge with writing, for instance, request an OT eval through the school and also the TOWL (Test of Written Language).

I hope that makes sense - it was written in a bit of a hurry!

Best wishes,

polarbear

ps - I have a question - you have a report from a private eval stating that there is possibly ADHD but possibly the behaviors noted could be sensory or LD and your ds is too young to tell at this time. Does the school dispute the report? Do you question the report? If *you* don't question the report and believe another go-round of considering ADHD would be either redundant or you don't want to go there with the school, I would stand up to the school and not allow them to repeat testing/eval that has already been done very recently.

I do think having another go-round of ability/achievement testing will be a good thing, and it sounds like the school psych is willing to spread out the testing over a few days. I would just want to feel comfortable that the school is going about the testing with an open mind, and not testing to rule in/out ADHD exclusively because they have a preconcieved notion that is what is going on.

I think the school is retesting because they feel the IQ is inaccurate, and they were concerned at the low processing speed scores. I personally do not feel the developmental psychologists eval was accurate either. Also his behaviors are a problem, and to get accommodations he needs a special Ed eval. They are not diagnosing, but are asking all the questions that point to ADHD. They will screen for LD red flags.

The School OT thought it might be anxiety much like her 3rd grade dd suffered from. They know based on the OT eval that ds is not an oral sensory seeker, yet at school he chews his shirt until its sopping wet. We rarely see that behavior at home. I feel just like the private OT did, the chewing is a coping mechanism.

The writing seems to be more of an issue at school. He can write and form the letters, and he isn't particularly slow at it either. It is just too large and uncontrolled. It's never neat, but it is better at home.

We haven't seen a neuropsych. What type of evals do they perform? The problem is that you have all these opinions and we could hop from one individual to another and each professional will have a differing opinion. And if we need meds we will have to see a psychiatrist. This all leads to more visits, more money, and no definitive answers. The issue is his behaviors are a problem but academically he is doing fine, therefore he isn't qualifying for services. And half the "professionals" we see don't appear to be definitive in their diagnosis. It's just a long process.

I personally wouldn't want to medicate a kid that is only showing ADHD behaviour at school (which I think is what you're saying above, if not then ignore). The behaviours are his way of dealing with some sort of underlying issue. Medicating without knowing the true cause could be like sticking a bandaid on his toe when it is actually his finger that is the problem. If it turns out it isn't actually ADHD then the bandaid might help for a bit (at least as a distraction) but eventually the real issue will return. Now the million dollar question is what is the issue (or issues). Is it a poor teacher fit? LD? Actual ADHD? Sensory? ????

It sounds like the school is trying to help sort it out. It will be a slow process but you're going in the right path. I would also second considering testing privately. We came out of private testing with a detailed 14 page report with very clear IEP recommendations. They have been invaluable and have saved us and DS a lot of frustration which has had a major positive effect on his behaviour. Our downward spiral was reversed - there is hope.

I know it's hard when you have lots of people saying nothing definitive but hopefully they will be able to help get to the bottom of this (and sooner rather than later). We were really lucky that we found an amazing ed. psych right away. When she read her report it was a major "aha" moment for DH and I. It made sense of so much of what we've dealt with for the past 7 years. Eventually you will find someone that "gets" your DS and will have the background to fit the pieces together. Until then, keep digging Oh and pace yourself, this worrying crap is exhausting - I say this as someone who has lost A LOT of sleep over my DS over the years (and I'm sure will do it again), easier said than done I know. You definitely are not alone if that helps.

Our DS does show some ADHDish symptoms at home. His moods swing, and he is distractable.

However I can't pinpoint what causes behaviors. Yesterday we went to see his teachers from last year and he was crazy. Hyper and all over and making noises. As soon as we got into the car he was back to himself. He was calm and talking more like an adult again. I can't tell if he was putting on a show or if its a nervous response.

His teacher is a better fit. However she has never worked with a child with sensory issues.

How do we get a "private" diagnosis? He already had Weschler at psycs office and now Stanford Binet at school. How can he have another test?

I've seen him when he gets tested or evaluated by a stranger. It makes him at crazy. I don't think we will get a good reading. IDK (sigh)

Our pediatrician is very good, very intelligent and relates well to our ds. He experienced many similar issues himself and with his son. We meet him on the 26th and he might have ideas.

DS seems to be better on weekends - structure is more relaxed, he gets more sleep, and he has time to play and do fun things.

One of my BIG ISSUES with the school is that when the weather is bad, there is no recess. AND he gets PE only one day a week. PE everyday and recess would help MANY issues.

DS does have some symptoms at home, but much less. He is still distractable and talks constantly. However he focuses on school work very well. He does alright at restraints and at church. You mostly see the behaviors when there is a lot going on around him and in "untypical" situations. He doesn't do well with evals, but adores the pediatrician. I have never figures out what's triggering the issues. Maybe more than one thing?

We are getting a complete vision screening for convergence, perception issues etc. Cant hurt! Eliminate things one at a time.

We just started a high dose DHA supplement, doing gymnastics once a week, trying small things!

If anything comes to mind let me know!

Sorry for the typos!

I don't recall ever seeing mood swings referenced as an ADHD symptom. If he is having anxiety reactions and he has sensory issues, seems like the last thing to look at is ADHD. The DSM guidelines say: "ADHD symptoms must not occur exclusively during the course of schizophrenia or another psychotic disorder and must not be better explained by another mental disorder, such as a depressive or bipolar disorder, anxiety disorder, dissociative disorder, personality disorder, or substance intoxication or withdrawal."

Also, you mention he gets more sleep on the weekends. That's concerning, because being tired can get many of the same behaviors. Ideally a child gets the same amount of sleep every night. Adults may be more cavalier and even teens (not usually a good thing,) but for kids lots of executive function abilities can quickly unravel without enough sleep.

Though, if you reread what you wrote, I think you know all of this already. If my DS was in a similar place, my first concern would be adequate sleep. Then I'd be taking notes about the full situation where he has meltdowns, especially the amount of visual and audio noise in the situation if I was suspecting sensory overload as a trigger for anxiety reactions.

Apparently bouts of anger and power struggles are part of ADHD. We have frequent struggles at home.

There is nothing more we can do about sleep. We have switched wake up to 7:00 am and bedtime to 7:30 PM. Sometimes including a 30 minute nap. He also isn't being prodded on weekends. To get to school on time he has 30 minutes to eat, brush his teeth and get dressed to be at school by 7:45. This wears on him as we have to constantly prod him to eat and stay on task with limited time. But if I get him up earlier he is even more tired and it tends to make him more hyper.

Today I visited his class for the Christmad party. He was doing whatever he wanted. Apparently with his new teacher he takes his liberties. And he railroads the other children. He is very dominant and bossy. After the party he broke down after I told him we had a party tonight and he had to take a nap. He was hungry and exhausted, luckily he had a good day - PE and two recesses!

Hopefully as he gets older this will improve.