Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Help - Distressing BASC-2

Hi all, please help. So I am getting an ADHD eval for my son and I gave his teacher, among other things, the BASC-2 scale to complete. She returned it to me in a sealed envelope, though I had originally asked her just to send it to the facility. She returned it to me b/c I had forgotten she cannot talk with DS's medical team or doctors without me signing a release. So, I looked at the scale. I mean, it is MY kid, right? SO, I was totally prepared for her ratings to be more harsh, particularly in areas of inattention. Obviously, there are issues, particularly school ones, that is why I am getting an eval for him. But many of her ratng seem way over the top. Let me say also, that my son is not a typical ADHD presentation on terms of the kid who was always running around, disruptive, etc. He is absolutely inattentive in certain situations. But he's not a disruptive guy. She put he "always disrupts other children's activities;" he "always disobeys," "always breaks the rules" "never encourages others to their best" "always bothers children when they are working." He "always fails to complete his tests" (what the heck - I get all of his tests home, I think, not only are they complete but they are always %100); "always acts without thinking" And, get these two: "always seems out of touch with reality" and "always does strange things"! Also, she put "often" for "acts strangely." And is "often chosen last for games" (this breaks my heart but he never complains of this, and has a best friend at school (they have sleep overs and have been friends since kindergarten;) and the two of them seem to have a bit of a group... Oh, and she put he is "never liked well by children of the same sex" and is "never a good sport" This kid I know and see is SUCH a good sport. Having EDS and being weaker and uncoordinated renders him HAVING to be a good sport. I watch him play chess and he is good sport about that too. This is a kid is used to losing and used to struggling (like swimming and writing). I am actually very proud of what a good sport he is. Unlike my adorable younger child who is very assertive and HAS to win. LOL.

These simply do not comport with the kid I know and it's not like I don't spend much time with him. I know him really well and have been observing him a lot. I also observe him at school when I volunteer (Last year I went every week to his class and helped out in the background so I got to watch him a lot and he didn't even know I was there at times). I realize that I am not there all of the time but these replies seem very extreme.

I have sort-of been here before. In pre-school I gave this form to DS's pre-school teacher to fill out as part of an eval to get DS OT for his hypotonia and delayed fine motor (which we now know is due to Ehlers Danlos). Same thing happened where the teacher put really disturbing and seemingly extreme ratings. I emailed the teacher about it b/c all of the extreme ratings were never brought to my attention before and some of them I KNEW weren't true like "always has potty accidents" (I would know b/c he'd come home with the soiled clothes). That teacher admitted in writing that she "exaggerated b/c you need to exaggerate to get a child help." When I showed that to the eval team they disregarded the scale. However, in kindergarten, when I had DS evaluated his kindergarten teacher filled out scales and I saw them and also he was quoted extensively in the report and he was very accurate. Last year DS had more than one scale filled out by his teacher. Again, hers seemed more accurate to me.... I mean he's always rated way more "inattentive" and such than I see at home but nothing extreme that I noticed.

So, I am not sure what to do. On the one hand, should I sit down with her about these items and confront her and ask for specifics? If they are true I feel like he must really be unhappy at school and perhaps I should seriously consider pulling him. On the other hand I feel like I should just realize that these teachers seem to exaggerate for whatever reason particularly when they think you will not see the scale, and just move on. I mean, the chances of him getting an adhd-inattentive diagnosis is probabaly pretty damn high ... I doubt this will really makes any difference.

HAs anyone had this experience. Is it possible my kid is really THAT OFF perhaps having some personality disorder or mental illness and my husband and I are in some serious denial?

SO heartbreaking to read this stuff about your own kid. Especially when the kid you see is so cool and creative and sweet and smart

Sounds like the same situation as the pre-school teacher, then. This is a teacher who has already made her own diagnosis and wants to make sure that her conclusion wins.

Do you have a concern about having opened the sealed envelope in terms of even approaching her about it?

I am so sorry I am doing this now. I am so tired of all of this... being "evaluated" every year... Reading this crap about your kid all of the time. Like, I just want to 'throw it all out and say to hell with it... I am done with this. No more." Other than his complaining he is bored and the teachers saying he pays no attention in their classes - he gets good grades, seems happy enough, has friends, and I am never called about his behavior and never seems to be "in trouble" I feel like I am just a glutton for punishment and looking for trouble and subjecting my kid to the same.

Oh and I am really starting to dislike teachers.

DS's teacher just filled out the BASC for the neuropsych and I opened the sealed envelope and looked at it. I thought she was overly positive, if anything. The only thing on there that I thought was odd was she put "never organized" which didn't go along with the other things where she said he was fine. The neuropsych picked up on it and said it was probably an error. I ended up emailing her and said "the neuropsych is wondering if that was an error, or if you really meant never organized". She emailed me back and said it wasn't supposed to be "never", but an example with some disorganization might be with projects which require cutting & gluing . . . organizing his materials to use and then taking care of them after he is done (scissors, glue, and scraps). So she probably did mean to put "never" then.
I think she might be extreme on it knowing that it's the only way to get a diagnosis, and the "never" and "always" don't really mean "never" or "always" (it's a stupid inventory since when would anyone ever be "never" or "always" for these things anyway?).
If it was just a couple questions I would suggest doing what I did and say "the neuropsych was wondering if you really meant to say never for X question." But there are so many of them like that, you really can't do that. Maybe you should just say you saw it and you are concerned about her answers and want to come in and discuss. Can anyone really fault a parent for wanting to know how their child's teacher rates them? You have a right to her input. Let us know what she says if you talk to her! Hopefully she was over-exaggerating but that doesn't say much about her as a teacher. That could lead to a false diagnosis, possible meds that aren't needed, etc.

Not really. He's 8 years old and he's my kid. I feel like if you write something about him and submit it for something as serious as this I deserve to know what you say and you had better be able to defend it.

My only concern is that I'll get angry with her, have an argument.... That our "relationship" break down. Part of me feels like - just brush it off but I know me ... I can't trust her now so I'll distance myself and be less involved, ykwim? Like we're not a team anymore.

See this is what I find annoying... Does everyone WANT a diagnosis? How about wanting a fair assessment and picture and really finding out what's up? This weird mentally of "Oh we'll exaggerate and get him that DX!" mentality is so weird around here in the schools.

I swear I feel like tossing it all in the trash.

SOrry that I keep venting. SO upset. Just so upset.

Quite honestly, she must know I could eventually see what she wrote. I am sure I could ask for his medical file and see the whole damn thing - doctor's notes, test results, surveys - it's my kid's medical record!

FWIW, we had a very similar experience with our teacher's BASC rating back in 2nd grade when ds had his first neuropsych eval. We didn't realize he was dysgraphic at that point in time, he was clearly struggling (and failing) in the classroom and he was having panic attacks at home and at school. I didn't realize it then, but now, years later, when ds has finally found his voice, he's very up front with me that he will never forget 2nd grade because it was the worst year of his life. His teacher thought he had ADHD or was cognitively challenged or maybe something else. She complained that he never did any work, that he stared off into space and that he refused to do any work in class. I was worried that there might be bias in her BASC report, so we purposely asked that ds' student teacher also fill out a report (our neuropsych agreed that it was a good idea to have her fill out a survey -she'd been in the classroom full-time all year so she'd had lots of opportunity to observe and get to know ds). Weeeellllll..... after we'd given the reports to each teacher (at the same time)... the classroom teacher told the student teacher not to fill her report out and she later told us that she'd be the only teacher filling out the report because the student teacher didn't have enough experience to fill it out. Ridiculous!


I knew our teacher's report was going to be depressing to read, and it was - even more so than I predicted. I quoted the above responses your ds had because our ds' teacher said the same things about those. The "always" just really got to me. Another one of her rankings I will *never* forget was she reported that he "never washed his hands after using the bathroom"... um.... how the heck did she know that... was she following him into the bathroom? Honestly, he was a 7 year old boy... as his mom I try my best to teach him good hygiene habits but I wasn't following him into the bathroom to check at the time... and... oh gosh, ds never *went* to the bathroom at school because he was afraid of getting lost.

Anyway, fwiw, our ds did receive a diagnosis of ADHD (inattentive, mild) through that neuropsych eval, and the reasons for the diagnosis were the ratings from the teacher and a slightly elevated response on a computerized test of attention. A follow-up ADHD eval by our ped two years later resulted in a non-diagnosis but attributed the symptoms that looked like ADHD to dyspraxia as well as boredom in the classroom. A follow-up neuropsych eval prior to middle school also reported no symptoms of ADHD.

In your shoes, I would talk to the evaluator about your concerns about the teachers' responses. I would *eventually* talk to the teacher, but not until after you have your report from the person doing the eval. Then I'd approach it by saying "the evaluator shared this information with me from the BASC survey you filled out for ds". That's the way I'd go about talking to the teacher and trying to get some real information about what's going on in class without having her know I opened the envelope. Our neuropsych showed us a bunch of ds' teacher's responses directly from her filled-out form in our parent review.



It's not the child you know. You know your ds better than anyone. The way I'd look at this *one* report is that something's not working in his classroom and that there's *something* up - so go forward, see what the teacher has to say when you ask her about what she's said in the report, keep staying on top of what you can re what's up with your ds and just keep moving forward. Definitely let the evaluator know you have concerns about the teacher's responses. You might also have the evaluator look at ds' previous' BASC or ADHD eval reports. The one thing that I've been told (by our ped) is key in diagnosing ADHD is that the behaviors must occur in more than one setting (school alone doesn't count) and that the behaviors should have been present before your child started school. I don't know that they'd always be noticable, but fwiw, that was one of our ped's strongest concerns with our ds' diagnosis - he had had no signs of ADHD in preschool or at home.



I would definitely talk to her about them, but as I mentioned above, I'd wait until I could tell her I found out from the evaluator rather than let her know you opened the envelope up.


Pulling him out might not be the only solution - we moved our ds to a different classroom rather than pulling him out of school.


It is really tough to read this type of input on your child - it still upsets me to think about it many years later. I don't know if it will help at all to know this, but that sad little boy that I read about in that depressingly horrible BASC rating so many years ago in 2nd grade is about to go to high school next year - and he's a wonderful kid (no bias lol!). He went through years of struggle in elementary school but he's found himself, he has really gained a ton of maturity and self-awareness over the past two years in particular, and he's made a ton of progress re his challenges. He's motivated, he's happy (usually lol), he has friends, and he's just a very *nice* kid. A teacher who met him today would *never* anticipate that his 2nd grade teacher could have said the things that were said on his BASC.

Hang in there,

polarbear

We had something like this with DD's 2nd grade teacher, who said that DD was "often" vindictive. I called her on it in a 504 meeting, and her justification was that DD "could get really angry." I told her I didn't think that was what "vindictive" meant, and let it go. I figured that the school psych and the principal had seen the exchange, so I didn't need to press further.

Hugs - and understand that this teacher just may be a HORRIBLE fit for your DS. I realized when one of my DC was in pre-K that I was really going to have to watch teacher matches for this child. One of my DC is the type that most teachers LOVE, and the other produces extreme reactions - they either "get" DC or they DON'T. A couple of teachers have LOVED DC, because they "get" DC. If they don't "get" DC, I have to brace myself. DC is extremely intense, so DC is not everyone's cup of tea (and DC is not always easy to deal with at home, either - NOT easy-going). I ALWAYS carefully and thoroughly fill out requests for parent input on "placement forms" for school. One year, I even met with the school principal to ensure a good fit for the coming year (and that was DC's best teacher and best year yet, IMO).

I would probably need to stay away from that teacher for a while to "cool off." When it comes to your DC, it feels very personal.

Also, a teacher that truly loves children and is skilled will recognize the STRENGTHS in every child, as well as any areas that need improvement. Teachers are of course, are human, and will have an easier time with some students than others. I would be skeptical of any teacher, however, that had nothing good to say about a child. Such a teacher is not only a poor match, but perhaps should not be working with young children.

You know your DC best. Focus on your DS's strengths - remind yourself of them now and do NOT let the teacher evaluation impact your view of your DC. Your DS may simply need more careful teacher selection in the future.

Sending support...