Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Woodcock Johnson Achievement

If you can go back to your tester and also ask what grade level his scores would place him at the 90-95th percentile, that will give you a better idea of what appropriate placement would be. For example, if he were to place at the 90-95th percentile for students at the end of 2nd grade, then 3rd grade math would be a good place to start.

As for handwriting, aside from the "showing what you know" thing, from a practical standpoint, he'll need to write things down when he can no longer hold everything in mind. For many kids this happens as numbers get larger in 4th grade or so. It happens again when problems get more complicated in algebra and again when writing geometry proofs (which is more showing your thought process than not being able to hold everything in mind).

Yes, I'm very curious to know what kinds of problems he was even answering in his head. Other than math fluency questions, I've never asked him to do that. On the report it says he was off by a couple numbers a couple times, doing it in his head. If he could write, his score would probably be even higher.

Another reference point that might be useful is that when my other son was 9 years old, his grade equivalent score was post high school level for math. That equated to being able to solve problems like x+3=27. Seriously.

Grade equivalents are not that useful on the WJ for deciding where the child should be placed. I would use scores like this to motivate a curriculum-based assessment to determine placement.

As a heads up, though, writing can present difficulties in math out of level. If your child is having difficulties with the pencil and paper production, then this does need to be brought to the discussion. DS doesn't have any documented writing disability, but a 7 year old's handwriting just can't fit into the space provided for 5th grade math. He's required some accommodations there, as well as flexibility from the teacher on his written explanations. As it is, he's not really placed at a level where he's learning much math, but he is finally at a level where he's learning to show his work and explain it. These are important foundational skills.

So what kinds of accommodations can you get for the handwriting being the wrong size for the math paper? We have the same issue. I suggested blowing up the math sheets on a copier but the teacher didn't say anything. Plus he doesn't always line up his numbers into columns. He doesn't even use spacing between words when he writes so how would he be able to line up small numbers.

I don't know what the solution is. He may NEVER have decent writing but he still will need to do math and math ability is probably his greatest strength. What happens if a kid does not have hands or they are paralyzed and can't write or type at all? They still need to learn math.

DS has 1/2" graph paper for lining things up, and for tests, the teacher (or an aide, I assume) is actually cutting and pasting to give DS enough space. Since she discovered a lot of kids needed something like that, all have the graph paper and expanded tests now. He gets nagging for explaining his work.

I see a huge amount of grey area on how much math DS "deserves" to learn as limited by his significantly younger age. DS has no documented disability in this area, and age is not a disability. (He does have documented disabilities which I think certainly affect this, but I have no ground to stand on here because the folks that wrote the diagnosis report didn't think so.)

Certain skills really need to be in place before he hits algebra. Even if cognitively he's ready, if the rest of the student isn't, then our position is to scratch the math itch another way and work to get the rest of the skills in place. YMMV.

DS7 uses graph paper to help him keep numbers lined up, and we have made it bigger squares to help with hand fatigue from trying to write smaller then he is ready for. I will sometimes write out the original problem for him if it needs to be copied out of the book and so will his EL teacher just to cut out some of the writing. This has helped him keep going on his 5th grade homework and not need as many breaks.

Went to the meeting. The special ed guy that tested DS said he was amazed and has never seen anything like that (guess he doesn't get too many 2e kids, although he's also been a general ed teacher). Everyone was laughing about the "Very Superior" categorizations. He said DS was solving word problems with several steps in his head without writing anything down. He said that DS was solving problems he himself would find challenging (what?!). Anyway, he said it's a huge problem that DS does not show work and he has to be able to write stuff down. I said that I agree but DS is going to need to learn math, not just writing, and if it's all about writing, he is going to hate math. I asked what their solution is. No one said anything. The whole meeting was about how they are going to pull him out for this, that and the other thing (even adapted PE), but they didn't talk at all about accommodations in the classroom. The whole focus is going to be on getting him to write legibly and proficient with other motor skills.
What if he is never going to write well? I asked if there is a way for him to do math without writing (for instance ipad or computer) and no one knew of anything and acted like I'm just trying to get him off the hook and he's not going to learn if he never writes. That's not what I meant--just that there's a limit to how much he can write. We did talk about graph paper, but whether it will actually be used in the classroom, who knows.

So while I'm glad they are going to give him services, I don't know if they understand that this is a disability and he's probably always going to struggle. It's not a delay. Sigh. The special ed director was there and he seemed to understand what I was getting at about needing modifications, so once I get the draft of the IEP I will probably call him.

They also completely ignored the fact that he's so far ahead in math (and reading as well)--it didn't even cross their minds that it's bizarre for him to be doing 1st grade math, and I didn't feel like getting into it with 10 people there. I might schedule a meeting with just the principal, and if that doesn't work, send DS's test results to the district psych.