Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Is my child gifted or hothoused?

My DD8 is in third grade. Started reading at 4 and continues to be an excellent reader. She's mostly comfortable in school at grade level. She doesn't find the spelling challenging, but it is fine. The reading and writing components of the curriculum are sufficiently differentiated for her to be interested and engaged. She started getting bored with Math in first grade since that was not at all differentiated.

I am a math teacher. I worked successfully with teachers in 1st and 2nd grade to keep her engaged and enjoying math. This mostly turned in to me sending in materials for her to work on in a folder that she was able to work on in lieu of whatever classwork they were doing. She has always had the option to check in and out of math class as she saw fit. Again that was more or less successful. I started a math club for her and 11 of her friends. That has been been an amazing success, both for her and her peers.

Now she is in third grade. I decided to try something different and let her try out a computer program where she could self-teach. From time to time I have explained a concept to her, but she has gone kind of crazy with it. She is allowed to do that instead of her school homework so instead of doing a worksheet that takes 3 minutes, she spends at least 30-60 minutes working on math. She's also allowed to do that in school, and often takes advantage of that. She also reads 1-2 hours a night, again, without my prodding. If anything I find myself telling her to stop reading and go to bed.

I absolutely don't feel like I push her, though I certainly give her plenty of positive reinforcement for all the work she does. I never really considered her 'gifted', more just a hard worker with an extraordinary level of internal motivation. But recently, I have been getting feedback from teachers and staff that makes it clear they feel she is a classic hothouse kid and I am the ultimate tiger mom. I wouldn't care so much except that it almost seems as though they are just waiting around for her to fail or at least return to the level of her peers. If I hear 'it will all level out' one more time......

So I had her tested and she had a FSIQ of 134 and a WAIT-II Math score of 160. Grade level equivalent of 8,3 for Numerical Operation and 9,4 for Math Reasoning.

My question is: do you think these scores reflect a hothoused kid that will come back to earth? I'm thinking the IQ is too high and the math too advanced and maybe if anything, I wasn't giving her enough credit for just being smart. Clearly the high math score is in part the result of me providing her with additional materials, but does it really matter at this point? Do you think if I share the scores with the school, they will focus more on meeting her needs and less on waiting for her peers to catch up?

Any thoughts are very much appreciated!

IMO it seems clear she is gifted. We found that having dd take the Explore test in 4th grade (I believe 3rd graders can take it as well) was extremely eye-opening and helped us to see that even though she wasn't complaining she really did need more of a challenge. Doesn't sound like a kid who will level out to me. (Unless she levels out by deciding to always do the minimum and gives up on learning anything new.)

Ouch.

Well, highly motivated or not, it sounds to ME as though you aren't the one doing the hothousing. It's entirely voluntary. I suspect that you may be getting that vibe from school staffers as a result of your involvement in the math club-- but hey, you have skills and you offered them to the benefit of an entire GROUP of children. Sheesh-- I fail to see how that is wrong in any way, shape, or form.

Assuming for a moment that her peers are mostly in the 105-115 range, um-- 134 is well beyond that.

Is the math artificially high? Maybe. It depends on whether the evaluation was based on exposure and achievement or upon raw aptitude. The difficulty is that there is a fair degree of overlap betwixt the two at 3rd-7th grades, honestly.

How rapidly does she seem to learn relative to those classmates of hers? You have a way to observe that since you have a window via the math club.

That seems to be one of the 'tells' of kids who are truly gifted, particularly those who are at those higher levels-- they just learn it so much FASTER upon exposure to concepts. Bear in mind, though, that brain wiring isn't necessarily much different in a child with an FSIQ of 129 versus 132. There's no bright dividing line between "gifted" and "not gifted." The numbers are just numbers in the face of the actual presentation of the child you have in front of you.

If she doesn't seem to learn far faster than her peers, it is possible that she's just motivated and interested. That FSIQ value still indicates (to me, anyway) that she's probably MG, which means that no, you're not hothousing-- she's just stumbled upon a domain that she's interested in pursuing, and you've (rightly) made it possible for her to do that.

That is not really any different than signing an athletic child up for Little League, swim lessons, or Aikido. I notice that nobody seems to label THAT behavior TigerParenting, or go looking for evidence of stress/failure in the child as a result. {sigh}

I'm not a fan of the term "hothoused." If your daughter wasn't able to learn the math- she wouldn't have learned it, in spite of your best efforts.
I remember getting some negative feedback when I taught my son to read at age four. I could tell he was ready to read and just needed some mechanical instruction. He's in first grade now, and an advanced reader both in terms of mechanics and comprehension. Most importantly, he likes to read and appreciates having skills to read whatever captures his interest.
I would also say (warning, soapbox) that advanced math skills are going to be a differentiator in the 21st century. Given the somewhat dismal performance of US public school students in math- you are preparing your daughter by advancing those math skills.

She is MG so not at the extreme end of gifted. You have made sure she has a suitable maths environment so she is doing better than in an unsuitable one. I dontthink their failure to destroy her maths talents should be blamed on you hothousing her:-P. The only thing is if you only give her approval for maths but it doesn't sound like it.

this makes me so sad. as parents, we expect to have a partnership with a school - with the parents, the child, the teachers and the administration all taking a role. you're clearly doing your bit, your wonderful kid is doing (or more than!) hers, and it's rotten when a school decides their part is simply slinging mud.

this is a total hot button issue for me, so i won't say anything more here or give any advice, but i do have all the empathy in the world for you, Tortuga. all the best!

Welcome!

Key phrases here may be: ...self-teach... she has gone kind of crazy with it... allowed... I absolutely don't feel like I push her... plenty of positive reinforcement for all the work she does... extraordinary level of internal motivation. Many would agree this is positive parenting.

You may wish to explore their observations, and share your own as well. Many people, including many teachers, have not seen a gifted child... and/or an autodidact... and/or a supportive parent who clearly values education and is able to read and respond to signs of readiness in their child, by providing additional academic resources and social opportunities like the math club.

You are in a unique position to gently educate these other teachers who are your peers and co-workers. To offset any pressure on your daughter, and possibly influence your peers, you may wish to acquaint them with the works of Carol Dweck regarding a growth mindset. This may help them maintain open-mindedness and soften their view (which unfortunately, currently sounds like a rabid readiness to pounce on any error DD may eventually make... framing it as an experience of abject failure).

Aptitude and opportunity come together to help fuel a child's achievement. Causing self-doubt among those creating opportunity, may be a way in which our society/culture sabotages our gifted and high-achieving children. Especially, keep that math club going if you can.

Qualifying scores on various tests can be submitted for evaluation for joining American Mensa. There is a fee for score evaluation, and an annual membership fee. (links- http://www.us.mensa.org/join/testscores/qualifyingscores/, and http://www.us.mensa.org/learn/gifted-youth/)

Being hothoused is NOT about scores, it is about the child's internal experience with the education they are receiving. Some have used the humorous expression "drinking from a fire hose" to refer to being inundated with information... some kids enjoy having the choice of lots of resources available for fast, intense learning. On the opposite side of the coin, some may compare hothousing with Foie Gras controversy (force-feeding), which we can imagine would be rather unpleasant for the duck or goose... or hot-housed child.

Having data is often helpful for advocacy. You may wish read advocacy books and articles, including the free downloadable guidebook on the Davidson Database: http://www.davidsongifted.org/youngscholars/Article/Davidson_Young_Scholars___Guidebooks_375.aspx

She may, perhaps, stop widening the gap between her and the brightest of her classmates in maths - but you're giving her something more valuable than the chance to be ahead in maths, viz., the chance to work hard at it. That experience may be more important than her IQ in shaping her achievement. She's lucky.

Compared to many round here her IQ isn't super-high, but there's a reason why that two sd above region is sometimes called "optimally gifted"!

My DS is ahead in maths and one of the ways I find most helpful to think about this is "he has time" - he has time to explore things of interest and to revisit a topic if that seems useful and to spend plenty of time working on problems. The prizes aren't for reaching the end of school maths sooner but for coming out the other end able to make maths work for you.

Thank you so much for all of the insightful feedback! I couldn't agree more with so many of the above comments. I find it especially frustrating that rather than celebrate DDs hard work and achievement, they are more likely to look for whatever they can find to criticize (handwriting comes to mind) and absent that, pat her on the back only for 'not showing off' in front of the other students. Like the coach of the soccer team is going to tell their star player to not use their skills so the other kids won't feel bad....

To clarify, I am a high school math teacher on leave from the classroom. So these teachers are not my colleagues. I'm just another parent to them. But they have been more than happy to defer to me, so I can't complain that much about the modifications. I know that I could have pushed for pull out instruction for DD in math, but frankly thought I could do a better job of it. I really wanted her to have the experience of working hard and getting rewarded for it, and felt I could figure out how to do it.

My math club is fully differentiated: I have the entire spectrum of abilities from DD to kids who are definitely below average, if not LD. (It was my attempt to show off to the school that you can differentiate and you can teach quality problem solving *and* a love of math to 2nd and 3rd graders -- which by the way, you can.) I think DD learns faster than any of them, even the highest functioning, but not by that much. I probably should have mentioned that I tested PG in school and had tons of problems associated with that. I had not heard the phrase 'optimally gifted' before, but I think that describes DD perfectly. She seems to have most of the advantage of being gifted and not nearly the downside that I had. And I think everyone nailed it on the head: it is very likely a complementary combination of above average ability and unique opportunity that is making her so successful. I hadn't really thought about it, but I model for her all the time: She sees me working on math, we often work side-by-side, I get her feedback on problems I design for math club, etc. You can't be under our roof and not think that math is an endless source of fascination.

I am now inspired: Going to look up Dweck and look at this as an opportunity to educate the teachers and the system. I have three younger children (with I think 2 that are HG)so a lot of horses in the race!

Again, many thanks for your insight!