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I've heard that the WPPSI is not that reliable when assessing IQs above 130, but do the scores above warrant a retest? Also, should I be concerned about the lower Coding score as compared to Symbol search (does it indicate learning difficulty?).
I am having a hard time managing this child and have no idea if she falls within the HG/EG/PG range in terms of behavior (and whether that knowledge would help me or not). She is certainly performing above her level but is very unmotivated to do anything that requires effort, while complaining that other easier tasks are too boring. On top of that she is easily distracted and does not pay attention to what we say (autism, ADD/ADHD has been ruled out by the doc). I took her out of Kindy to homeschool (she was bored to tears in school) but find that I cannot figure out if she needs more challenge, less interference, more freedom, or just some good old-fashioned discipline. I feel if I had a better objective idea of her capability in terms of IQ (rather than what she says, which is typically to avoid anything that requires effort) I would know what level of work to use for challenging her.
OK I was wrong your child is probably at least EG I have been in a bit of denial and going with 2SD =mg, 3SD = hg, 4SD = eg, 5SD = pg. This technique allowed me to minimise the scariness of my son's score. Hope it goes well for you.
Those are very high, very even scores. Your little girl is obviously very gifted. One of the things I learned on this board is that you've seen one gifted child, you've seen one gifted child. Giftedness really does look different from kid to kid.
It's great that you were able to respond to her needs by taking her out of school. We've always homeschooled from the beginning, so I've never had to deal with that transition. But I've heard it can be difficult. Since you took her out because school was unpleasant for her, I am wondering if you took some time to deschool. I've heard many people say that kids often need at least a few months to decompress from the school experience, particularly if it was a difficult one.
I would also point out that six is still pretty young. For context, we pretty much unschooled at that age, and I wasn't thinking in terms of gifted at all. I didn't have any idea that my kids have significantly advanced abilities. My DYS daughter wasn't reading at that age. I read her lots of books, she listened to a lot of audiobooks. We went to museums, took walks in the woods, and grew crystals. We mummified our own chicken, watched lots of documentaries, and spent time with friends.
Your daughter might need less structure, or she might need more. She might need more challenge, or she might need less. I do agree that gifted kids need to learn to deal with challenge. But I don't think that is necessarily their main task at six. At six, most kids actually still learn best by playing. Even gifted kids.
In terms of understanding her level of giftedness, and how that impacts her behavior and her academic needs, you are mostly going to have to learn from her. I've done a lot of reading on this board as well as other places, and I can say that no other kid I've read about it seems exactly like my daughter. But all the reading has still helped me understand her better.
You might consider applying for DYS. Her full-scale IQ is one point short, but I think you would still have a chance.
Those scores are wonderful. My son is six, and although his scores weren't as high as your daughter's, he is a bit of mystery to me. He goes to a private school and I was in the habit of giving him a small amount of pen and paper homework during the summer. This summer, he became resistant- wanted to swim, build legos, do puzzles, and read comic books and graphic novels. It was frustrating that he didn't want to do any of what I deemed "real" work. With him (yes, I agree kids are different), he needed to hibernate into his own interests. Most kids do this in the summer, but it was kind of frustrating to me (as I'm a planner, and had planned so many learning activities for him). When I look back at his development, I see several periods of what I call "hibernation" before he hits a runway going 200 miles an hour. He doesn't listen well to the extent that it was brought up by his kindergarten teacher and was a big issue at home. We actually considered that he might have an auditory processing problem, it was so bad. His IQ test and recent achievement tests do not in any way support an auditory problem. We discovered that he is often so far in his own head, that routine information/requests don't rise to surface. "Put on your shoes" just doesn't scratch the surface of other, more interesting thoughts. He also complained when things were too easy (tedious) and when things required a lot of effort! Frustrating! I found that it meant that he just didn't want to do anything I deemed "work" or traditionally "academic." I had to let myself be okay with that- I think I was so accustomed to seeing my child "on" that I would get concerned if he just wanted downtime. Would further testing give you more information? Possibly. Especially if you suspect that there is a 2e issue. Otherwise, I think observing your daughter and her patterns (especially in a homeschool environment) may give you more insight.
Thank you so much for your responses - they've been very reassuring to me, new as I am to this whole thing about having a gifted child. I was a very high achieving student and adult (without necessarily being gifted), and I have to say it has been difficult for me to see why someone with high IQ would not be as motivated as I was.
Gabalyn: Your comment " I do agree that gifted kids need to learn to deal with challenge. But I don't think that is necessarily their main task at six. At six, most kids actually still learn best by playing. Even gifted kids." is a great reminder. Thanks for that. I am kind of unschooling her, not by choice, haha, simply because she has made me that way with the kind of person that she is! I'm really going to take that affirmation and cut myself some slack for just letting her be. She does get lots of time to do her own thing, but even in her areas of interest (which can change frequently), she will not really show any kind of academic intensity - she usually explores as much as she wants to (sometimes very little) and then drops it. I do suspect she is a little bit lazy - she has sometimes said so herself and comes to me every now and then to whine that she is bored.
Cammom- This made me laugh "We actually considered that he might have an auditory processing problem, it was so bad. His IQ test and recent achievement tests do not in any way support an auditory problem. We discovered that he is often so far in his own head, that routine information/requests don't rise to surface. "Put on your shoes" just doesn't scratch the surface of other, more interesting thoughts.". Can you believe it, we actually had her hearing tested because at one point, she was SO NOT listening to us we thought she might have a hearing problem? Didn't help that she was also telling us her ears were blocked (I doubt that is true now). Of course the test showed that she was completely fine. I live daily with the frustration of having to repeat myself over and over to get her through the routine everyday stuff, sometimes I feel myself going crazy doing it. I've made lists, and made her make lists, stick post it reminders, etc They've just ended up being ugly wallpaper. She doesn't seem to respond so well to either punishment or bribes or even good ole consequences. She learns a lesson when SHE wants to, not when I want to. She's not a bad child, not necessarily rebellious but just very obstinate in character and learning style/inclination. I've realised that unless she is self-motivated there really is no use getting her to do anything.
Why I asked whether her scores warranted a retesting. I really can't describe fully the enigma and challenge that she is, but suffice to say that I vacillate between thinking that she must either be (i) such a genius that a non-genius like me cannot recognise her brilliance or (ii) grossly overestimated in terms of IQ on the Wppsi.
Do you ever feel like your child is an ongoing mystery? Like sometimes you GET her, only to lose that again?
I have never ran across a person who described their child so much like my own!! It seems as though I could have written EVERYTHING you said! I also have a 6 year old boy who is a visual spatial learner with ALL of the traits that you have mentioned your daughter has! I had to join this forum just because I was so flabbergasted as to how you were mentioning your daughter, finally someone who knows what it's like!!
The comments about having to repeat things, over and over, and how she learns things when she want to learn them are exactly those that we deal with in our son. We have also considered having his hearing checked, because of forever having to repeat ourselves toget his attention, and also because he has a hard time with his voice volume.
He has not been tested yet, but I am convinced he is gifted. When he has the inward drive to learn something, it's done in record speed. But if there is no drive, it's not gonna happen.
It's so nice to know that my son isn't the only one out there like this!
In all of the forums, articles and blogs I have read regarding gifted children, I have never ran across someone describe their child SO much like my own! My son is 6 years old and going into 1st grade this fall. We have not had him tested yet, but I feel as though it will become a necessity sometime in the future to advocate for his education.
My frustration lies in that fact that it is hard for teachers to see the extent of his intelligence, he seems to never pay attention in class, and have his head in the clouds constantly. His intelligence is not readily apparent and is unmotivated, but as soon as he takes interest in a topic, he devours it, but it has to be on his terms and his terms only. Of course this never happens in school, because as he said to me the other day, I didn't learn anything in kindergarten. I wish we could take him out to homeschool, but it just isnt an option for us.
I love your description of extracurricular activities. Last soccer season our son found more amusement running around on the lines of the soccer field than running after the ball, and in Tae Kwon Do he has been on a white belt with a yellow stripe for longer than I care to count, has no motivation to move up, and really only cares to go and play and roll around on the mats!
We have seriously thought about hearing testing, we are repeating ourselves constantly, and constantly trying to get his attention, I love the description of too many other thoughts in his head.. it fits him to a tee. He also talks extremely loud and we are constantly having to tell him to quiet down.
we try to have rules in place for getting out of line at home or at school, but you can tell that he always weighs the consequences, in deciding if he will break the rule. And many more times than not, the consequence is so worth breaking the rule to him.
Does your daughter have a lot of overexcitabilities? We constantly deal with clothes or blankets that are too itchy, and hair cuts are just too itchy without a cover. He cant sleep in PJ's, and has to sleep in a soft fleece blanket.
we frequently describe our son as a moving target and an enigma. I dont believe I will ever figure him out. He is such a happy go lucky spirit, and coming from a mom who needs all her ducks in a row, this is a hard concept for me to grasp!
I am glad that somewhere out there, someone has a kid like mine! Yay! YOur son certainly sounds a lot like my daughter. It IS so frustrating at times isn't it? I laughed at your last line because I am definitely a mom who needs all her ducks in a row too LOL. I am auditory sequential and she is visual spatial. We clash so much.
Overexcitabilities - hers are not the clothes tags variety. It's more like food texture (doesn't like chicken), she likes crunchy things, and generally she is more hyposensitive than hypersensitive. She does talk too loud though (reminds of of Austin Powers ... "I have problems CONTROLLING THE VOLUME OF MY VOICE!" LOL). And is constantly fidgeting, spinning, chewing chewing and chewing. She LOVES to feel compressed and squeezes herself into tight spaces sometimes. Wears double layers and likes tights. Has very poor body awareness. Constantly annoys her sister and friends with her constant moving.
Also I think she has imaginational over excitability. She is SO lost in her daydreams. To talk to her I have to go right up to her and hold her by the shoulders and ask her to listen 'with your eyes' and even then her eyes will look right through me while she says in a zombie-like voice ... "yess.....". It is SO hard to get her attention. During swim class she is the only kid in a class of 3 who is not doing what the others are doing. She often escapes to the NEXT pool and her poor coach has to go over there and fish her out cos she just won't respond when called.
I always tell people, that she is like that kid in Sesame Street, the one who is always "doing his own thing". See this youtube video here:
Why I asked whether her scores warranted a retesting. I really can't describe fully the enigma and challenge that she is, but suffice to say that I vacillate between thinking that she must either be (i) such a genius that a non-genius like me cannot recognise her brilliance or (ii) grossly overestimated in terms of IQ on the Wppsi.
That oscillation between states of awe (her ability to learn and the depth of her insight is unreal) and horror (why isn't she getting this when she had it last week?) is what I experienced too. I had to learn my DD's learning habits and the right way to engage her. I am better able to recognize the non verbal cues that indicate fatigue now...
Eventually you will acclimate, trust me . It will become 'normal'.
6 is still a very tender age and she probably has extreme asynchronies that may 'smooth out' as she gets older. Hang in there.
Re: WPPSI, there was a 1 SD difference b/t my dd12 on WPPSI at 6 and WISC at 10, and WISC was more accurate. (this was likely due to perfectionism on WPPSI IMO). She presents very differently than how you describe your daughter. My dd6, though sounds a lot like your dd, and of course I love her but it can be exasperating. We did WPPSI when she was 4 b/c I wanted to try to understand her, and I don't believe it was accurate, due to immaturity (duh!) and lack of full cooperation. We are saving up for testing with WISC to try to figure this kid out. So, no help, but I can understand why you might want to test further. Further testing with my oldest gave us the confidence to skip her which was the right choice and now she is thriving. I totally get a kid who is a mystery. Good luck sorting it out!
