My 6 year old was tested on the WPPSI-III last year (after displaying various behavioural issues in school), and these were her results:

Verbal IQ: 145 Very Superior
Performance IQ: 150 Very Superior
Processing Speed: 137 Very Superior
Full Scale IQ: 149 Very Superior

Subtests:

Information: 17 (Superior)
Vocab: 17 (Superior)
Word Reasoning: 18 (Superior)

Coding: 14 (Above Average)
Symbol Search: 19 (Superior)

Block Design: 18 (Superior)
Matrix Reasoning: 18 (Superior)
Picture Concepts: 18 (Superior)

I've heard that the WPPSI is not that reliable when assessing IQs above 130, but do the scores above warrant a retest? Also, should I be concerned about the lower Coding score as compared to Symbol search (does it indicate learning difficulty?).

I am having a hard time managing this child and have no idea if she falls within the HG/EG/PG range in terms of behavior (and whether that knowledge would help me or not). She is certainly performing above her level but is very unmotivated to do anything that requires effort, while complaining that other easier tasks are too boring. On top of that she is easily distracted and does not pay attention to what we say (autism, ADD/ADHD has been ruled out by the doc). I took her out of Kindy to homeschool (she was bored to tears in school) but find that I cannot figure out if she needs more challenge, less interference, more freedom, or just some good old-fashioned discipline. I feel if I had a better objective idea of her capability in terms of IQ (rather than what she says, which is typically to avoid anything that requires effort) I would know what level of work to use for challenging her.

Would appreciate any help that you could give!

OK I was wrong your child is probably at least EG I have been in a bit of denial and going with 2SD =mg, 3SD = hg, 4SD = eg, 5SD = pg. This technique allowed me to minimise the scariness of my son's score. Hope it goes well for you.

Those are very high, very even scores. Your little girl is obviously very gifted. One of the things I learned on this board is that you've seen one gifted child, you've seen one gifted child. Giftedness really does look different from kid to kid.

It's great that you were able to respond to her needs by taking her out of school. We've always homeschooled from the beginning, so I've never had to deal with that transition. But I've heard it can be difficult. Since you took her out because school was unpleasant for her, I am wondering if you took some time to deschool. I've heard many people say that kids often need at least a few months to decompress from the school experience, particularly if it was a difficult one.

I would also point out that six is still pretty young. For context, we pretty much unschooled at that age, and I wasn't thinking in terms of gifted at all. I didn't have any idea that my kids have significantly advanced abilities. My DYS daughter wasn't reading at that age. I read her lots of books, she listened to a lot of audiobooks. We went to museums, took walks in the woods, and grew crystals. We mummified our own chicken, watched lots of documentaries, and spent time with friends.

Your daughter might need less structure, or she might need more. She might need more challenge, or she might need less. I do agree that gifted kids need to learn to deal with challenge. But I don't think that is necessarily their main task at six. At six, most kids actually still learn best by playing. Even gifted kids.

In terms of understanding her level of giftedness, and how that impacts her behavior and her academic needs, you are mostly going to have to learn from her. I've done a lot of reading on this board as well as other places, and I can say that no other kid I've read about it seems exactly like my daughter. But all the reading has still helped me understand her better.

You might consider applying for DYS. Her full-scale IQ is one point short, but I think you would still have a chance.

Those scores are wonderful. My son is six, and although his scores weren't as high as your daughter's, he is a bit of mystery to me. He goes to a private school and I was in the habit of giving him a small amount of pen and paper homework during the summer. This summer, he became resistant- wanted to swim, build legos, do puzzles, and read comic books and graphic novels. It was frustrating that he didn't want to do any of what I deemed "real" work.
With him (yes, I agree kids are different), he needed to hibernate into his own interests. Most kids do this in the summer, but it was kind of frustrating to me (as I'm a planner, and had planned so many learning activities for him). When I look back at his development, I see several periods of what I call "hibernation" before he hits a runway going 200 miles an hour.
He doesn't listen well to the extent that it was brought up by his kindergarten teacher and was a big issue at home. We actually considered that he might have an auditory processing problem, it was so bad. His IQ test and recent achievement tests do not in any way support an auditory problem. We discovered that he is often so far in his own head, that routine information/requests don't rise to surface. "Put on your shoes" just doesn't scratch the surface of other, more interesting thoughts.
He also complained when things were too easy (tedious) and when things required a lot of effort! Frustrating! I found that it meant that he just didn't want to do anything I deemed "work" or traditionally "academic." I had to let myself be okay with that- I think I was so accustomed to seeing my child "on" that I would get concerned if he just wanted downtime.
Would further testing give you more information? Possibly. Especially if you suspect that there is a 2e issue. Otherwise, I think observing your daughter and her patterns (especially in a homeschool environment) may give you more insight.

Thank you so much for your responses - they've been very reassuring to me, new as I am to this whole thing about having a gifted child. I was a very high achieving student and adult (without necessarily being gifted), and I have to say it has been difficult for me to see why someone with high IQ would not be as motivated as I was.

Gabalyn: Your comment " I do agree that gifted kids need to learn to deal with challenge. But I don't think that is necessarily their main task at six. At six, most kids actually still learn best by playing. Even gifted kids." is a great reminder. Thanks for that. I am kind of unschooling her, not by choice, haha, simply because she has made me that way with the kind of person that she is! I'm really going to take that affirmation and cut myself some slack for just letting her be. She does get lots of time to do her own thing, but even in her areas of interest (which can change frequently), she will not really show any kind of academic intensity - she usually explores as much as she wants to (sometimes very little) and then drops it. I do suspect she is a little bit lazy - she has sometimes said so herself and comes to me every now and then to whine that she is bored.

Cammom- This made me laugh "We actually considered that he might have an auditory processing problem, it was so bad. His IQ test and recent achievement tests do not in any way support an auditory problem. We discovered that he is often so far in his own head, that routine information/requests don't rise to surface. "Put on your shoes" just doesn't scratch the surface of other, more interesting thoughts.". Can you believe it, we actually had her hearing tested because at one point, she was SO NOT listening to us we thought she might have a hearing problem? Didn't help that she was also telling us her ears were blocked (I doubt that is true now). Of course the test showed that she was completely fine. I live daily with the frustration of having to repeat myself over and over to get her through the routine everyday stuff, sometimes I feel myself going crazy doing it. I've made lists, and made her make lists, stick post it reminders, etc They've just ended up being ugly wallpaper. She doesn't seem to respond so well to either punishment or bribes or even good ole consequences. She learns a lesson when SHE wants to, not when I want to. She's not a bad child, not necessarily rebellious but just very obstinate in character and learning style/inclination. I've realised that unless she is self-motivated there really is no use getting her to do anything.

Why I asked whether her scores warranted a retesting. I really can't describe fully the enigma and challenge that she is, but suffice to say that I vacillate between thinking that she must either be (i) such a genius that a non-genius like me cannot recognise her brilliance or (ii) grossly overestimated in terms of IQ on the Wppsi.

Do you ever feel like your child is an ongoing mystery? Like sometimes you GET her, only to lose that again?

Windyx,

I have never ran across a person who described their child so much like my own!! It seems as though I could have written EVERYTHING you said! I also have a 6 year old boy who is a visual spatial learner with ALL of the traits that you have mentioned your daughter has! I had to join this forum just because I was so flabbergasted as to how you were mentioning your daughter, finally someone who knows what it's like!!

The comments about having to repeat things, over and over, and how she learns things when she want to learn them are exactly those that we deal with in our son. We have also considered having his hearing checked, because of forever having to repeat ourselves toget his attention, and also because he has a hard time with his voice volume.

He has not been tested yet, but I am convinced he is gifted. When he has the inward drive to learn something, it's done in record speed. But if there is no drive, it's not gonna happen.

It's so nice to know that my son isn't the only one out there like this!

Windyx,

In all of the forums, articles and blogs I have read regarding gifted children, I have never ran across someone describe their child SO much like my own! My son is 6 years old and going into 1st grade this fall. We have not had him tested yet, but I feel as though it will become a necessity sometime in the future to advocate for his education.

My frustration lies in that fact that it is hard for teachers to see the extent of his intelligence, he seems to never pay attention in class, and have his head in the clouds constantly. His intelligence is not readily apparent and is unmotivated, but as soon as he takes interest in a topic, he devours it, but it has to be on his terms and his terms only. Of course this never happens in school, because as he said to me the other day, I didn't learn anything in kindergarten. I wish we could take him out to homeschool, but it just isnt an option for us.

I love your description of extracurricular activities. Last soccer season our son found more amusement running around on the lines of the soccer field than running after the ball, and in Tae Kwon Do he has been on a white belt with a yellow stripe for longer than I care to count, has no motivation to move up, and really only cares to go and play and roll around on the mats!

We have seriously thought about hearing testing, we are repeating ourselves constantly, and constantly trying to get his attention, I love the description of too many other thoughts in his head.. it fits him to a tee. He also talks extremely loud and we are constantly having to tell him to quiet down.

we try to have rules in place for getting out of line at home or at school, but you can tell that he always weighs the consequences, in deciding if he will break the rule. And many more times than not, the consequence is so worth breaking the rule to him.

Does your daughter have a lot of overexcitabilities? We constantly deal with clothes or blankets that are too itchy, and hair cuts are just too itchy without a cover. He cant sleep in PJ's, and has to sleep in a soft fleece blanket.

we frequently describe our son as a moving target and an enigma. I dont believe I will ever figure him out. He is such a happy go lucky spirit, and coming from a mom who needs all her ducks in a row, this is a hard concept for me to grasp!

Mlewis

I am glad that somewhere out there, someone has a kid like mine! Yay! YOur son certainly sounds a lot like my daughter. It IS so frustrating at times isn't it? I laughed at your last line because I am definitely a mom who needs all her ducks in a row too LOL. I am auditory sequential and she is visual spatial. We clash so much.

Overexcitabilities - hers are not the clothes tags variety. It's more like food texture (doesn't like chicken), she likes crunchy things, and generally she is more hyposensitive than hypersensitive. She does talk too loud though (reminds of of Austin Powers ... "I have problems CONTROLLING THE VOLUME OF MY VOICE!" LOL). And is constantly fidgeting, spinning, chewing chewing and chewing. She LOVES to feel compressed and squeezes herself into tight spaces sometimes. Wears double layers and likes tights. Has very poor body awareness. Constantly annoys her sister and friends with her constant moving.

Also I think she has imaginational over excitability. She is SO lost in her daydreams. To talk to her I have to go right up to her and hold her by the shoulders and ask her to listen 'with your eyes' and even then her eyes will look right through me while she says in a zombie-like voice ... "yess.....". It is SO hard to get her attention. During swim class she is the only kid in a class of 3 who is not doing what the others are doing. She often escapes to the NEXT pool and her poor coach has to go over there and fish her out cos she just won't respond when called.

I always tell people, that she is like that kid in Sesame Street, the one who is always "doing his own thing". See this youtube video here:

Yup, that's my kid.

That oscillation between states of awe (her ability to learn and the depth of her insight is unreal) and horror (why isn't she getting this when she had it last week?) is what I experienced too. I had to learn my DD's learning habits and the right way to engage her. I am better able to recognize the non verbal cues that indicate fatigue now...

Eventually you will acclimate, trust me . It will become 'normal'.

6 is still a very tender age and she probably has extreme asynchronies that may 'smooth out' as she gets older. Hang in there.

Re: WPPSI, there was a 1 SD difference b/t my dd12 on WPPSI at 6 and WISC at 10, and WISC was more accurate. (this was likely due to perfectionism on WPPSI IMO). She presents very differently than how you describe your daughter. My dd6, though sounds a lot like your dd, and of course I love her but it can be exasperating. We did WPPSI when she was 4 b/c I wanted to try to understand her, and I don't believe it was accurate, due to immaturity (duh!) and lack of full cooperation. We are saving up for testing with WISC to try to figure this kid out. So, no help, but I can understand why you might want to test further. Further testing with my oldest gave us the confidence to skip her which was the right choice and now she is thriving. I totally get a kid who is a mystery. Good luck sorting it out!

I think it's really important to remember she's 6 years old, no matter what her level of giftedness. I, too, was an extremely motivated student and high achiever - but honestly I don't think I was at 6 - at 6 I was still very much into play and having fun at school etc. My EG ds also didn't seem motivated *at all* at 6, or even for several years after, and I honestly thought he was going to be totally mellow and non-motivated forever, but once he hit 6th grade he found that same internal motivator and I'd now say he's highly motivated to be high achieving and it shows. Way back when ds was in early elementary (K-1) we had him in a school that was all about student-led learning and developing independent thinkers etc - but the teachers there felt that most students didn't really have that inner-motivation kick in until around 3rd grade at the earliest.

There's also another piece to the 6 year old puzzle that may be impacting some of what you're seeing - most children go through a developmental stage around 6-7 where they are starting to see themselves as individuals completely separately defined from their parents in a much more significant way than when they are younger, so some of that resistance to doing what you want her to do could be coming from that.

Re the not listening, my older dd was sooooo like that as a young child - still is sometimes. She too went through an auditory processing eval at 5 years old because she simply didn't seem to hear well at all or remember directions when we asked her to do something that involved more than one step. If we asked her to pick up her coat and hang it on a hook in the room next door, she would pick up her coat and get lost on the way to the room that was right next door. She has a sister that is two years younger, who was able to carry out much more complicated directions so we were worried *something* was going on and a psych recommended the auditory processing eval - but all was ok there. Much later on (with many more episodes of dd being "lost" and not following our directions and seaming to not hear us) we found out she had a vision challenge - and that was why she would get "lost" and not follow through past the first simple part of a multi-step direction. I don't think your dd has a vision challenge - her Symbol Search score is beyond great. But my point is, sometimes what is driving one behavior isn't the first suspected and most obvious answer, kwim?

I'll also add that for my dd who didn't seem to hear well - the things like having to hold her shoulders and make eye contact to get her to hear us etc - she does have ear wax that builds up in a huge way - really dry stuff (probably tmi lol!) - and we can tell when she has a build up because she starts talking loud and we start having to do things like get right in her face when we're trying to tell her something - so... if your dd hasn't had a ped checkup lately you might want to have her ears checked for wax buildup. With our dd it's not something we can see with our eyes - not your typical obvious-from-a-distance kid with ear wax - it's dryer and deeper.

Re the lower coding score - what you're seeing isn't hugely lower. Most of the parents I know here on these forums who have kids who are impacted by low coding scores (my dysgraphic ds is one of them) have a larger discrepancy between scores. That said, your dd definitely has a dip in processing speed. I'd watch for patterns in her work refusal - is it generally all over the place, or mostly when she's asked to do written work, things like that. If you start to see a pattern see if it might relate back to that dip in processing speed.

Re WPSII reliability in general, my one child who was tested with the WPSII *did* test much higher than she later tested on the WISC - but in her case, I did not expect through-the-ceiling scores and the test results she has received in subsequent ability testing correlate better with what we see in her academics. OTOH, I've not seen many parents post with similar experiences - I think most high WPSII scores hold up as the child gets older and is tested with the WISC etc.

And my last comment (I promise lol!) - is that playing with Legos etc isn't just wasted time - there can be a *lot* of mind-building and creative thinking and synapse-connecting going on during activities like Legos. My EG ds spent literally years playing with Legos - they were the creative outlet for him instead of the fantasy-play world of dress-up and Barbies my dds lived in I think really that type of unstructured play is *so* important for our children - it's where I feel like I've seen their most creative, original thinking. Even now that my ds is much older and doesn't play with his Legos *as often* - I still feel that his brain strengths are nurtured more during the time he's just free to read/explore/think for himself than they are doing most schoolwork, whether or not it's work that is the right level of academic challenge.

But that's just me

Hope some of that helps!

Best wishes,

polarbear

1 SD - isn't that 15 points? Is that considered significant? Seems quite significant to me ... And did the WISC give a higher or lower score?

I wonder why some testers choose SB5 over WPPSI-III and vice versa. But the fact that she was tested on WPPSI-III and that Davidson requires a 150 on WPPSI-III compared to 145 on the other tests also makes me wonder if test scores on WPPSI-III are inflated. I actually asked the psych whether her scores could be artificially inflated somehow but she was very adamant that that couldn't be the case because she did not accommodate her at all.

I will try to put her into mainstream school next year, thus ending my homeschool journey for now at least. And yes I do wonder whether, in advocating for grade acceleration (although the chances of that being granted in her school are very slim) would be in her best interests. The only thing I know is that, I really hope she has a good experience in school and that I don't get all that feedback about my kid being inattentive, naughty, uncooperative etc again. It gets really sad. She really is just the kind of kid that so far, NO teacher or coach has liked.

Thanks polarbear, that's a lot of good advice you have given me there. I really have a lot to learn as I grow with this child. I really get you there, that playing with Lego is not a waste of time. My DD6 does play a lot - and on good days I think, ok that's great she is learning and being creative and being a child. And on other days I see how she really can't even get off her *ss to do just one sum and I wonder whether I have failed to teach her discipline and should really get her ready for schoolwork and regular school. But she also changes moods from day to day - so I guess that is the roller coaster ride that gifted kids do bring their parents on.

Thanks also for your comments about the IQ tests - WPPSI-III and WISC. It seems like this testing thing objective as it is supposed to be still works out in different ways for different kids? At the end of the day, I would like to have some certainty, although I do realise that at the same time, even with the certainty there's not going to be an instruction manual for this kid

Yes, that is significant, IMO. In my dd's case, I believe the lower WPPSI score was totally due to perfectionism (not answering unless she was sure she was right) and a tester not experienced with gifted kids--I took her to the tester at the Down syndrome clinic my son went to because the price was right...) I anticipate that my younger dd's WISC score will be higher as well, because she was wiggly and not totally cooperative, and I think perfectionism and just quirkiness plays a role with her. I have heard of higher scores on WPPSI than WISC, I think if a kid does fully cooperate on WPPSI this might be possible. But I doubt it would be a hugely signicant amt. In my older dd's case, the successful skip and achievement shows WISC was more accurate. Good luck.

Just wanted to also encourage you to do some reading on gifted perfectionism and underachievement especially in gifted girls. It could help a lot to understand what may be going on with her.