Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Acting aggressively

My DS6 is starting to act aggressively when he is not mentally stimulated. Usually, he is very calm and quiet, but for the past few weeks he has become a little out of control (not brushing his teeth, not going to bed, etc; arguing about everything and anything- even fact; general jumping around; lack of respect towards his dad).

He is amazing when he is doing something he loves that requires his absolute focus and interest; obvious, I know, but it is really becoming split personality. He is either like an adult, or he is like a hyperactive six year old- there's no inbetween.

Please tell me this is a phase! I don't know what to do; I can't entertain him with these particular (expensive) activities 24/7. Reading only entertains him at night, now. My computer is getting fixed. He has a billion toys, educational, and fun ones, but lately he is only enjoying activities in a professional setting, such as, science fun in a science lab or the planetarium at a local university. I can't take him to those places every day, and in my sad, boring state there isn't much more to do. Help!

This sounds more like testing his boundaries than a gifted issue. Have the rules of the house clearly defined, and the consequences for breaking the rules well established. Arguing about things like going to bed or brushing your teeth is a very quick trip to grounded-ville in my house. If that sort of behavior continues, they will quickly lose their allowance.

are you me?

ha, squishys - it's like you're in my house, watching DD5 these days, right down to the total lack of respect for her dad.

i sure HOPE it's a phase... but i'm not sure i can wait that long - the stress level round here has been pretty extreme.

we always deal with individual incidents immediately, consistently and clearly, so it's been perplexing that our very logical kid has just flown off the rails again these past few weeks without any obvious provocation. her mood had been really bad during the horrible school year she had, but the anger has really ramped up again all of a sudden.

so yesterday, in a rare moment of calm, we totally read her the riot act - we called her downstairs, sat across a table from her and spelled it out: all the stomping/door slamming/shouting was to STOP. it was very hard for her to hear, especially since she clearly already knows how bang out of order she's been. i've never really pulled a discussion like this out of the moment before - it always seemed pointless - maybe i thought she was too small to be able to digest/synthesize it outside of the individual incidents.

of course, that sounds totally stupid now that i write it down - this is the kid who digests/synthesizes everything practically instantly. the kid who remembers a social failure on a play date from five months prior, and makes a sensible plan for how to handle potential future problems when the kid is finally coming over again.

anyhow, it's too soon to tell if it really sticks, but the Big Talk definitely improved the vibe in the house yesterday, and it has clearly carried forward into today. this morning, she was still her old self - very thoughtful and helpful and pleasant.

fwiw, i've found exercise also really helps when DD is at her craziest. if your state is sad & boring... can you take him on a long march? pack up enough snacks to eat along the way and walk till he drops?

good luck, squishys!

Thanks, doubtfulguest! I am losing patience, which is unfair because he's only being "naughty" in comparison to his usual behavior. I don't use time outs or typical punishments; we do time ins and he is usually very rational. I am hoping this phase will be over soon.

We've discussed it and talked about behavioral rules, and he drew up some 'rules' posters. So when he breaks one of them I remind him of the posters. That does help, but it doesn't prevent the outbursts. Am I being unreasonable? I have no idea. I don't know what the expectations are for kids, let alone gifted kids. I mean, if I could afford it is it okay to let him be mentally stimulated all day? Does he need forced downtime? Ugh, it's hard being a parent lol.

And, to clarify, he wants to stay up all night to read or do activities, not just to be defiant (I hope!).

I agree.


Kids do these things from time to time. Some of them more than others, depending on their natural setpoint for autonomy.

Unfortunately, like NT children, HG+ ones also exercise profoundly bad judgment about consequences at least some of the time, meaning that one cannot always just let them do what THEY think is best.

They may know-- intellectually-- that eating no vitamin-C rich foods will lead to scurvy, or the purpose of dietary insoluble fiber... but that doesn't always translate into "I know that eating nothing but candy and pop-tarts is not good for me, so I will choose oatmeal and broccoli instead."

I'm not sure what this lack of practical connection is all about, not being a developmental expert. We've tried natural consequences, but sadly, if the consequences are too distant temporally, it doesn't make enough difference to offset the immediate reward (particularly in a highly autonomous child).

The rules may be somewhat flexible, certainly. The child may have rational input about rules, even (and I do think that is important for HG kids).

However, only adult judgment is sufficient to determine when and how much the rules can be flexed. It's not a matter for negotiation. Not because of control, but because parents are stewards for the care and long-term well-being of children who lack life experience and adult perspective.

Anything less is expecting them to actually BE adults.

Once I explained this to my 4yo DD, she was way more cooperative.


For a while, anyway.

we definitely had to institute "forced downtime" for DD - or we would have gone round the twist. we started quite slowly, though - and she was very resistant at first.

the other thing we do have, that i forgot to mention is a series of mason jars on the mantelpiece.

The little jar of "hate" - 5 cents for each use of the word
The little jar of screams - 5 cents per scream
The enormous jar of solutions - we record it, every time she comes up with a solution vs. a complaint. we read the little scraps of paper out as a family on new year's eve to wrap up the year - it's fun!

and actually, this method really worked on the "hate" thing - i think there's only about 30 ¢ in there. it's a bit slower-going on the screams, though, but there's definitely progress. she's at the point where i can just say, "jar!" and she'll clap her hands over her mouth. ha - we probably need a jar of door-slams and one for foot-stomping, too.

and i totally agree, squishys - it's hard when there's no one to talk to about this stuff. you know they're SO capable, but what's appropriate for our little ones is so out of step with the rest of the world at times. and if i had a nickel for every time i heard, "but she's only 1/2/3/4/5... i would need more than a mason jar to keep it in!

i think it boils down to you knowing your little dude best. if you think he can do better - i'd be willing to bet you're right!

I do basically what you do, just without the timeout part. He has been on holidays for the past week, but this has been going on for a few weeks. He has had some trouble with his teacher, but that's been going on all year. He generally goes to bed at 7pm and reads for half an hour, then goes to sleep, happily. He sleeps 10-11 hours a night. Sometimes on the weekend I let him stay up until 9. I really can't think of anything that coincides with this behavior.

I ask him what's going on inside, to which he just replies, "I just want to do things all the time" or, "I never want to sleep". He isn't usually angry until I tell him it's bedtime- he just wants to read or write. I'm just worried, I guess, that it's the beginning of something else.

HowlerKarma, that's so right about them knowing things logically, but acting anything but. My son knows everything about keeping himself healthy, but sometimes doesn't do those things... He is generally pretty good, though.

I also have explained that, part of being a good mummy is taking care of her babies. I am pretty flexible with letting him make decisions, bit the two things I am the boss of are his health and safety. I think that is the new struggle.

I might try a discussion of "job descriptions" for being a good, responsible parent... and for being a good, responsible CHILD.

Then you can frame his struggles with you as him trying to do your job rather than his.

(as you can probably tell, I've lived with a kid like this for a long time...LOL)

doubtfulguest--I *LOVE* that--not just one jar, but a series! Wonderful! We're going to have to do some version of that, too. Plus DD loves reliving her successes, so it's another way to reinforce that from time to time.

Re the original post, I agree it sounds like testing. The only thing I would add is that I think it is best to clamp down on the open disrespect as much as possible (e.g., you can think it but you can't say it, that kind of thing). DD just spent some time with a cousin who has been allowed to continue showing disrespect to her dad and brother and now is pretty rude to men generally--although otherwise she's a great kid. It's just something that has grown into an ISSUE and I think if they had worked on it instead of brushing it or laughing it off it would not have.

Also, one more thought--vigorous physical activity to maybe help burn off some of the excess energy.

I have a little different take on what you've described. My son is a 6yr old w/ ADHD. I never would have gone that direction until I started researching it. He doesn't seem "distracted" to me. He can focus intently on what interests him but he most certainly does have it (we have physically WATCHED his brain showing the patterns in brain scans). Sensory issues and other stresses do make it worse and intense exercise makes it better.

Here's what I've learned that might be an explanation for your son's behavior:

ADHD brains crave stimulation. Their PFC (prefrontal cortex) is underactive and needs some adrenaline to "wake it up" enough to feel normal and okay. In fact TRYING to concentrate brings a REDUCTION in PFC activity in effect making it worse.

This makes mundane or non-stimulating activities extremely difficult to complete. Get your shoes on is a mundane task. Clean up toys, school work outside interest or challenge area, even following rules not very stimulating. It's painful in an ADHD brain to not have stimulation and they will seek it out sensory, relationally or otherwise.

Where can you get this stimulation? Conflict with others is an easy one. Time to play "Let's have a problem!" which is a favorite among the ADD crowd both young and old. How about waiting till the night before something big is due? The impending doom definitely amps up the adrenaline and suddenly gets the juices flowing.

The other part is moving moving moving for ADHD as well as being impulsive. Physical activity is phenomenally helpful. My little guy was running a mile each night before bed at one point when stress was so high just so he could go to sleep.

The impulsivity is part of the PFC shut down. PFC is the house for judgement/control/decision making and is not available or able to the ADHD thinker. It's just turned off sometimes and the result is not one that makes anyone feel good about behavior.

At school as you progress in grades teachers have expectation of increases in executive function, self control, initiating and completing tasks, and attention span for things outside your passion (rightfully so as this is developmentally appropriate in NT kids). All usually downfalls of ADHD kiddos. It looks like lazy, unmotivated, undisciplined, not applying yourself, and sometimes willful defiance to teachers. Report cards will show it and some teachers will openly display their displeasure with such a student creating even more problems for teacher/child and teacher/parent relationship.

Your child may have some completely different issue but if any of this is hitting home for you a good place to start reading is Dr. Daniel Amen's 6 Types of ADD. The preview is on Amazon. It really opened my eyes to something I thought I already knew about.

All true-- but it brings to mind another facet of raising a giftie, too-- the higher a child's LOG, the more likely it is that those executive functions will lag behind apparent brain development.

We as human beings are kind of programmed to 'see' the markers of logic, attention to detail, and cognitive skill level as proxies of maturation. When they aren't, it's rough to know what functional/dysfunctional looks like.

HG kids, IMO, probably all have elements of ADD-like behavior by virtue of that asynchrony. We simply expect synchronous development, and we naturally assume that unless we are focused on that NOT being the case.

In other words, all kids can be lazy, unmotivated, and undisciplined. Because they are kids. It's just really, really disconcerting to have your 3rd grader (who is 6) behave like a first-grader out of the blue.

Except, er-- that's his age-cohort.

Long way of saying that as parents of HG+ kiddos, it's often wise to take a look at NT development within a range.

I have learned to look at our child's actual chronological agemates, minus one year, to plus however many years gets you to their apparent cognitive level. Expect any behavior which is normative for NT kids in that range-- under different conditions and in different domains, I mean. When it's bedtime, she is 14. When she wants to socialize rather than do work, she's 15 in terms of her impulse control, and 17 in terms of her need for autonomy, 20+ in terms of her social skills and conversation, and 16 in terms of her ability to multi-task.

Thanks, HappilyMom. It wasn't something I considered, as Ireally don't think he is. He is very motivated, and monotonous even with boring tasks. He always has his homework done the day he receives it without me asking him to do it.

I feel bad for even getting frustrated, and it probably isn't fair to him because he is so well behaved. I guess, as I wrote before it's because he isn't as well behaved as he was. When I see other kids his age, I am very grateful lol. I'm just not sure if my expectations are outrageous as I am not around kids, often. I hardly see my friends' kids, so I don't have comparisons.

I don't know if this is a gifted issue or not. It probably is not. Sometimes I just don't know how to handle it, but that's more to do with my poor handling of things. I feel bad for even posting this question now!

Yes, HowlerKarma! That's exactly it: when your child acts like he's a 10 year old, then suddenly acts his age, it is a shock. I think that's the part where I feel mean, because he is only six, after all.

When my sons get like this I have a check list

Sleep, nutrition, exercise (significant), brain work, personal goals, contribution/responsibility to family life, fun time/one on one time with either parent

If I have been or kids have been slacking in one or more of these areas we work on fixing it.

We might teach them a new household chore and make them responsible or find a new goal for them to work on achieving or study a topic that they are interested in like hurricanes or a person from history.

Also I have in the past required the hour after lunch to be quite time for the entire house no electronics ( other than soft music) reading, napping, writing, in your own space...because we are all home during the summer and we all need alone time.

He sounds like a typical six year old boy to me. Both of my twins can act like that, although one is not quite as aggressive. Somedays it seems that I am constantly putting someone in time out or explaining the reason that they must brush their teeth or wash their hair. And there have definitely been more meltdowns since summer vacation started. I think they are just testing their boundaries. They are becoming more independent, and are trying to see what they can control.

Also, I think some of it is related to the freedom of their schedules right now - we are spending more time together than we did during the school year, and they have a lot of unscheduled time. The more structure I can provide, the less conflict there is, so we are doing a lot of swimming, reading time, library time, events at the library, play dates, etc.

I have found the book "The Way of Boys" by Anthony Rao to be very enlightening. I originally checked it out of the library, but bought a copy because I liked it so much. The author makes the point that sometimes boys act their worst right before they make a big developmental leap.

Hang in there. Six seems to be a very tough age for boys.

Thanks, momoftwins. I am hoping it is just a normal phase for any six year old! Holidays are worse, I suppose. He is really big on routine. We have been doing activities everyday, but they may only last two hours- there's more hours in a day than that lol. He has a trampoline, but he doesn't have much interest in it, only occasionally.

He does a lot of sport at school, and on Saturdays he has basketball. He has made a leap athletically in the past month, maybe it could be that. He made a big leap mentally in March. Actually, when I think about it, he's had a big year for every kind of growth, including a huge growth spurt, too. Though, they don't coincide with this moody change (except for the athletics part- does anyone know anything about that?).

He will he seven in September; maybe this will stop on his birthday

Thanks for your advice, everyone. It's nice to have somewhere to share feelings and stuff :P

I'm in the middle of this issue with my ds 7.5-yr-old. Part of it is that he's depressed that there's no one like him around. Part of it is that he's testing boundaries Part of it is that he's quite asynchronous with developments and LOG.

It's definitely related to structure. Some kids need more structure than others or at certain times. It doesn't mean you have to be draconian or have only adult-directed structured activities. It sounds like you're doing much of the same structure that I am - lots of swimming, reading, library time, programs/events at the library, and play dates. That's structure in my book with certain things happening at certain times and days.

I turned to books on defiance (ie. Your Defiant Child) and some structure into the day. This has helped us. I'm not saying it's easy or necessarily needed in your case. But I insist on politeness and respect. When my son recently started get quite angry, frustrated, and having big meltdowns when he couldn't rule the roost or get his way, I locked things up and told him that he had to earn privileges. He's getting the message and connecting his behavior/action and consequences together.

I'm not saying that you've got to be draconian or authoritarian. I'm still struggling with the teeth brushing myself. I even talked about it today with the dentist! It's just that's a non-negotiable rule, though he's free to think how much he dislikes it. My son has to brush his teeth, but he's got control over what toothpaste or what toothbrush he may use. Or he can try to show me how quickly he can brush the teeth. Ditto for putting his shoes on.

Yeah, cdfox, I'm thinking it's all of the above. I have a great routined setup for him- the same activities on the same day at the same time. I'm so happy my youngest is so easy going lol, I couldn't handle two routined kids!

I use natural consequences as "punishment". However, while the NC of not brushing your teeth is that your teeth fall out, I can't allow that to happen. He is aware of what will happen, and not just the extremes, but the other things such as cavities, etc. The sheer thought of cold icecream being too painful to eat is enough of an incentive to get him to actually brush, but not without the five minute debate beforehand (at least it's decreased from 30 minutes).

One difference in his life, that I have remembered, was the news recently that I won't be able to afford his maths/English lessons as of next year. He was pretty devastated by that. But I don't think that would cause this- I have no idea.

I think it would be more convenient if I just rob a bank and paid for him to have 24 hour maths lessons. (Just kidding...or am I...)

And there's more to it than the age-old teeth brushing kid stuff. Like the totally amazing debating skills that he has lol. He has an argument for everything. Which is good, in a way. I have taught him to question things, and to not just believe what someone says, but to find out for yourself. I guess it's all my fault LOL.

When my DD6 starts acting cranky, I've realized what she really needs is a ginormous cuddle and some sympathy. There's no point in me lecturing her because she's well-aware of every single house rule - of course she only needs to hear things once and she'll remember them in fine detail! (Which is why she's actually a delight 99% of the time.) It just makes her madder to be told things she already knows!
So I eventually figured out that a sit down on her bed and a nice bear-hug and some back-rubbing and soothing oh-dear-that's-no-good noises while she complains that she doesn't know why she's angry she just is, followed by some story-reading or other personal attention to fill up the old emotional tank actually fixes the problem better and faster than anything. Then she's back to her usual delightful rule-abiding self again. I figure we're all allowed a bad day without judgement every once in a while!
Good luck, I hope it all improves

Thanks, AvoCado, that's great advice. I usually do that kind of thing. Excuses: having a half human, half monkey 16 month old gives me less patience lol. I will make more effort

Yes.... (sigh). It wasn't until DS9's diagnosis that I began to wonder if I have it too (I'm HG). Previously I've written off my restlessness and other quirks as being a GT thing.

So... DD9 has a dx, and DD10 and myself have truckloads of symptoms.

I discipline bad behaviour. It's that simple. I give a warning (mommy STERN voice) and then I come down like a load of bricks. It might not be the most compassionate way given my kids' alternative cognitive needs, but it works. They're both extremely sensitive and aren't keen on angry mom.

As for sleep... meh. Whatever. I let them read into the wee hours of the night in their rooms. It's all good. DD10 eats books like they`re crackers, so I don`t think I could stop her anyway. DS9 is a little better in that he doesn't read for as long, and then will tuck himself in and fall asleep.

They've gotten more manageable as they've gotten older, which is nice

Btw Squishys when my DD10 was 5, her behaviour was AWFUL. I can't believe how much she's calmed down. It was really, really... (sigh) INTENSE. Now she's still wired, but much happier (I think because she can self-direct her mental energy).

We had the day from hell today. I felt sick and had a headache, ds6 encropresis was playing up (4 changes of undies and trousers for heavens sake will it ever end) and they were both clingy and aguementative. It ended badly but the point I am trying to make is how stressed are you. You say you can't afford certain classes from next year, does this indicate major financial stress, or a health issue affecting work or ... My kids were hellish today because they knew I was partially absent and they wanted to be sure I didn't forget them if I had actively engaged in something with them I would have still felt dreadful but they may have been calmer.

No major stresses. By not being able to afford it, I actually me I really can't afford now! We're dipping into our savings (which is for our new house, so we really can't endlessly take from it), and the tuition is really expensive. I have thought of an idea, however: an organisation provides financial grants for kids doing some sort of academics beyond their age level that isn't a part of school, so I am hoping to apply and receive. I can't rely upon that happening, though.

Things have calmed down a bit since my original post. Maybe he was dreading upcoming holidays, which are usually boring but haven't been so far. I have no idea. And, despite his incompetent teacher, he is looking forward to going back to school next week.