Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy How normal is this ?

I just found out from DS that his average waiting time for each subject is about 30-45 minutes . So when given an assignment , he'll be done within 15-20 minutes , ( might be longer or shorter depending on the subject or the test ) .

Once he's done with assignments or tests , he has to wait for other students to finish ( obviously ) , i just didn't think that it he had to wait that long ( in my mind before i found out about this .. i thought it'd be just like 10-15 minutes waiting )

Is this normal ? why am i feeling like why do i even send him to school if he has to spend 30-45 minutes doing nothing but reading . For language , math , science / social studies , that's like 30 or 45 minutes times 3 !! 90 to 135 minutes average of waiting on a daily basis !!

In the previous school , he said he finished about the same time like everyone else did ( and he barely got in trouble in that school ) .

Is this waiting period this long considered normal ? Does any of your children have to wait this long after they're finished their assignments before given or moving on to the next one ?

Thank you

Sounds about right to me. This is why most of the kids we talk about on this board are bringing books to read.

Yes, that's what I've seen in my kids' elementary classes. Teachers seem to deliberately go incredibly slowly with instruction, particularly in the lower grades, and then they give a lot of time to complete the subsequent work, which most kids actually take. This is one facet of the quintessential problem of our kids' learning much more quickly.

Dude is right. You need to work with the teacher to come up with a solution, and usually it winds up with the student reading on their own out of a book from home.

The other option is troublemaking.

I was shocked hearing this from DS few nights ago , when he said he had to wait in my mind it would be only say 10-15 mins max .

I've talked with his teacher during the beginning and middle of the year about this and that she needs to keep him busy and keep his mind stimulated , because there is only so much reading he could do .

Well so much for that , she doesn't do much of anything , and at the end , DS is the one suffering , and being labelled trouble maker .

So much time wasted !

jaylivg, have you looked into whether there is a more appropriate classroom for him for next year? Subject acceleration or grade acceleration? Have you or the school looked into achievement and ability testing to determine exactly how extensive the misfit is between your DS and his current placement? I'm forgetting what you've said about your DS on other threads, but it definitely sounds like there is a problem that might require a different solution than having him entertain and educate himself for so much of the day.

mnmom23 , i've talked with the school , but i didn't bring up the subject or grade acceleration straight up , although i brought some proofs all the stuff he did last summer at home . ( basically his portfolio ) . The school just said that we should nominate him for a testing . DS took the test i believe it was last week , but we didn't get anything about the result yet .

I also think the teacher is not a good fit for DS but principal insisted the teacher is a perfect match for DS .

This school year has been a bad experience for DS , and for the whole family too . Earlier it just occured to me that i remember his homeroom teacher said she is the gifted teacher , and if DS were to go to gifted program next year , that means she could be his teacher again *sigh*

I have to say DS is no angel , but he's not a bad kid either , but the teacher or the school just makes it like DS is a really bad kid . While the problem might be just laying on giving him something to keep him busy , stimulate him , he's not the one who can sit and wait . Reading yes he loves but maybe there are days he's not into reading that much and because there is nothing for him to do , hence he's talking .. or disrupting the class .

This is the exact thing that caused DD9's issues in school to start and what causes her the most trouble still - all the "free" time with nothing to do because she has everything done. If someone doesn't find something creative and interesting for her to do then she will find something herself and they probably won't appreciate what she will find to do.

We try to make sure she always has a good book to read and she will usually read when she is done. However, even with a good book, sometimes she just doesn't feel like reading and ends up getting into trouble. The gifted teacher gave her a bunch of "Think Sheets" which were fun for DD at first, but she hasn't done any of them for quite some time now. She is also allowed computer or Ipad time when she is done with her work and that gives her something other than sitting and reading.

DD7 has told us recently that when she is done she gets to help the other students. I guess this has been going on for a while, but she had just never mentioned it to us. This is a double-edged sword to me, but she seems to enjoy helping out, so we will leave it alone for now.

I agree that it might help to talk to the teacher to come up with some different options for your DS during his "free" time. One thing that was mentioned to us would be having DD come up with a project she wanted to do or a presentation she wanted to make to the class, then when she is done with her work she could work on her project or presentation. This would still be academic and gifties seem to like/need learning the in-depth knowledge that researching for a project or presentation would give them.

moomin , i think that's a great idea if the teacher could just give students who finished first something else to do . Like you said just to use up that time , because it's a long time for not doing anything but reading . Although DS loves to read , but i said it many times , you can only read so much . I also love to read but i have days and times where i don't feel like reading .

I think giving the students who finished first extra work is the key , whether it's puzzles , word searches , something else to stimulate their mind , etc . A while ago , DS asked his teacher is there anyway that he can earn extra credit ? LOL .. being only a 2nd grader , i kinda figured what the answer would be .. his teacher told him NO .

1frugalmom , you said it all . DS is like your DD9 , exactly like that . And yes most of the time when he's not reading , he writes , or draws , even that . Sometimes what he writes offend the teacher , although he writes it in his own paper or journal ( i let him bring journal ) and he got in trouble because of that . For example , he wrote in his journal and gave nicknames for his friends and his teacher sent me a note home , she said she doesn't mind DS write during free time , but not for things like this . Other time , he'd be very creative and because of so creative it distracted the whole class .

About helping , back in 1st grade he was allowed to do this , like going to kindergarten and help reading to them , or just in the classroom helping other students . But in this school he wasn't allowed to . Even helping a friend in a car rider line , he got scolded for doing that .

I've begun talking with DS7 about thinking bigger than what is presented in class. There is always more that can be explored or learned as long as you keep curiosity stoked. More complex math problems to make-up; wondering about the next level out in science; looking up synonyms, antonyms, and word origins. I would not expect, rely on, or count on the school to provide this material. Meta-cognitive skills and an inquisitive mind can turn anything interesting.

My son sleeps in almost every class. He finishes his work and then puts his head down and falls asleep, he says to keep from getting in trouble. Sadly, when he used to work on personal projects like sketching new maps for Minecraft, he got in trouble for not being in task. But when he sleeps, they leave him alone.

It is part of why I fought for seven years to get him appropriate placement.

I hope you can find a better fit. That is mind numbingly depressing to spend that much time every day waiting.

That's a good idea , i might try it . Heck i don't care about how the teacher feels , to be honest with you , i am quite dissapointed with how she handles things with DS . Esp. turning DS into a someone who thinks that he's that bad of a kid , turning him into someone who used to love school so much into someone who thinks " maybe homeschool is better for me mom , because i don't get in trouble that way "

I will get some books for him to work on at school and will give him incentives . Thank you for the idea !

Yes it is very depressing , and it does effect our whole family . I wake up feeling grumpy and i wonder why , i know why now .. it's because of the school ! I couldn't imagine being in DS shoes .. and having to go through this every single day . Even for adults , that much time spent on waiting is a long time .

If your son is coming home with homework, another option would be for him to work on that during his available class time. Then he gets all his time at home back... win.

I totally get your situation and I feel for you - believe me!!! I've mentioned before in other posts that it seems to me that DD9 has lost some of her "spark". She used to be so excited about everything new and wanted to know about everything. This has caused me to often wonder if the test results were off, or if maybe she is just really pretty normal and we are just seeing what we want to see in her and I really hate that. I don't know if the loss of her "spark" is just her maturing, her trying to blend in with the other kids, or if school is just sucking the life out of her. We only get one shot in life to do the right thing and I constantly doubt that I'm doing enough or the right things for both my girls. It can be so hard sometimes to see the "big picture". We just have to keep trying and try different things, and as you probably know - what works one day may not work the next.

I guess we just have to hope, pray and keep the faith! And if that doesn't work bribe them with ice cream or a puppy....lol!

jaylivg, re your question of "is this normal", it would not have been normal in my children's elementary schools. Up through second grade (and even beyond) it is not unusual for children to be high energy and like to move, and most of the seat work my kids teachers gave out never lasted for more than 20 minutes at a time total. The was a lot of group interaction, moving around, talking, sharing ideas, doing active project work. My kids have been in three different element arty schools and even the most traditional school where children did a lot of sitting at their desks and were expected to be quiet the assignments given out did for individual work were not intended to last for more than 20 minutes total at a time without breaks to look up, talk about something, stretch etc. the other thing that happened consistently in each school and classroom is that the teachers had some type of structure around what kids should do if they finish early.

It sounds like you have a situation where your ds has been consistently finishing his work quickly since he started school, he most likely needs more challenge, and he doesn't have a good teacher fit this year. There might be other students who are having similar issues; they might be obviously goofing off or they might be sitting quietly bored but not be the type of kid who is going to show it to the world. It might help to check around with other parents to see if this teacher in particular is causing other families stress.

I'm on my iPad..... And running out of patience for typing on the danged thing! So I'm going to. Have to finish my reply later.... but I just wanted to let you ow re your OP that no, waiting 30 minutes or longer hasn't been our experience even with my very very fast working gifted kids.

polarbear

My son currently has enough downtime in the day to construct elaborate paper ... things... for himself and other students. Masks, sculptures, fake weapons and armor, building, etc. He also reads, draws, writes stories and still somehow has time to talk excessively, all while having a 100 average in most classes.

Yes you're right , i'm sorry , i get so frustrated with his teacher and a lot of times i just don't care about her anymore . And i shouldn't be like that , since she is his teacher , he sees her more than he sees me daily , it upsets me that things just don't change to the better instead it's just been going downhill and it effects every member of the family .

I will talk with her about this idea , hopefully she'll let him .

1frugalmom ,

Yes that's probably the word i was looking .. he seems like he's lost that too . Right now we're just taking one day at a time , and hope for the better , and we're praying , i am sure there is got to be a way to make things work .

epoh ,

It's amazing , isn't it ? you think with all the things they do in class after finishing their assignments or tests , then read then being creative , creating anything he could possibly think of using very minimal items .. yet they still find a way to talk and yes doing well with grades too .

Polarbear ,

You see , the chart that i get from school , it mentions :
- power up 8.30-9.25
- specials 9.25-10.15
- language arts 10.15-12.20
-recess 12.20-12.50
-lunch 12.50-1.25
-math 1.25-3.00
-scie/ss 3.00-3.30

So , during those time whether it's an hour or more , it seems like every subject lasts more than an hour anyway , teacher gives instruction , explaining , teaching new things , then the children are given the assignments to work on what they just learned , am i right ? Now between the time the children started working on the assignments until the class ends and moving to another subject , according to DS , he has to wait that long between 30-45 minutes . Him and another girl always finish first , and the girl always reads reads and reads . Teacher has no problem at all with her , but not with our DS . DS brought books too but unfortunately he calls himself 'not street smart ' because obviously he still talks and causing problems , all the while still reading or writing or drawing or creating something .

I guess it's probably not a good fit between him and teacher .

Well, on the one hand, I can see why this is a problem from the teacher's perspective; after all, a child who is talking to others during 'quiet' seat-work time for the class is interfering with other students' learning.

But it does seem a bit much to place all of the responsibility for this on the shoulders of a young child. After all, he is FINISHED with his work, and has demonstrated clear mastery. (In case you might think I'm not sympathetic here, I was this kid... the "talker" who was done-done-done before everyone else; so I understand completely what your DS is up against in terms of his own nature.)

Obviously there is something the teacher is completely missing here, because the teacher SHOULD be giving your DS something to do which meets her need for classroom control and HIS need to be engaged while in that classroom.

As a stop-gap measure, can you brainstorm some "quiet" ways for him to spend time that won't distract his classmates? Maybe by asking him why he thinks this other classmate doesn't seem to "get into trouble" with the teacher, even though she finishes early as well?

Then present that list to the teacher? Maybe if you presented this as "ideas to improve {DS} behavior and have him learn to support his classmates' learning" or some such thing? (Yes, I know, it's sucking up... a little... but if it improves things, is that such a horrible thing?)

They are in class from 8.30 to 3.30 with only one hour long break? It is a wonder they don't go insane let alone talk.

Howlerkarma ,

i agree with you , i totally understand that if DS talks too much while the teacher is testing few students to read to her , yes it is disrupting , and i can see why he gets in trouble for that . I am not blaming teacher 100% on this because DS needs to learn to control his needs to talk too .

We did ask DS why doesn't his friend who finishes first like he does manage to stay away from trouble ? He said all she does just grab her book out and started reading . DS has this urge when he needs to tell something to someone , he'd like to say it as soon as possible , or else he's afraid he might forget . I suggested to him , bring a note and write it down . I've tried everything from books , journals , drawing comics . Occasionally just reading works , sometimes busy with drawing comics work . It's really on and off ..

We tried talking with teacher too , that maybe doing this might work or doing that might work , i even suggested to his teacher that if she needs help such as cleaning the board or the desk or whatever , she can make DS do that so that he can be busy doing something other than not doing anything . Once in a while she made him organizing the book shelf , or cutting bear bucks for her . Or giving DS more problems to solve , anything just give him something to occupy his time and stimulate his brain .But as far as helping other students , i doubt she'd let him . During car line rider , DS helped his friend with math problem , not giving the answer but helped him with addition and regrouping , and the teacher said don't help your friend .

DS really likes to get into an argument too , we had a big talk last night about this , he did admit , he likes talking with adults , but we told him adults don't like talking with you if you argue with them . He thinks by arguing , he can eventually change their mind , so that he gets his way , he admitted this yesterday . We told him , save that skill for later on , maybe you can be a lawyer LOL ..

Puffin ,

yeap , 8.30 til 3.30 is a long day !

I remember back when i was in school i had 2 times recess , but for only 15 minutes , school was from 7.00 am til 1 pm , monday through saturday ( this was from 3rd grade til high school , the younger ones only goes til 11 am or 12.15 pm ) , but we always had 15 minutes recess at 9.15 til 9.30 and then second one was at 11.15 til 11.30 . You can bring snack and eat your snack too during that recess , nobody told us we had to finish snack first etc .. no teacher supervised us .

I had to chuckle at this...we offered many suggestions too. We suggested DD could organize the books in the room by reading level or alphabetical order. We suggested all sorts of organizational things she could do that would be helpful to the teacher like pulling the staples out of the bulletin boards and sorting supplies, etc. We even said that DD would enjoy walking around the room to pick up all the staples on the floor just so she could organize them into whatever categories she could think up (bent, straight, closed, broken). We seriously thought this idea could really go places because she could make charts, graphs, work with fractions, etc. just by picking up staples. Obviously we were grasping at ideas by that point, but we weren't asking for anything really "out there" just for someone to be a little creative in keeping her occupied when her work was done and therefore helping her stay out of trouble.

This is absolutely not normal. You need to find a new school. While it is not unsual for a very bright kid to complete his work in one-quarter to one-half of the alotted time, I am flabbergasted that the class would be expected to be working independently on assigments for 45-65 minutes at a stretch three times in one day. That's potentailly 3 hours and 15 minutes in a day when the teacher is not actively teaching and the students are not working together or in groups. That's crazy!

The fact that your DS has previously been to a normal school makes this school all the harder to tolerate.