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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 12
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OP
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I don't fully understand what is tested in those IQ tests. I never took one ever in my life  But, I know my son could easily solve 10 types of rubik's cubes in a matter of minutes. I don't even know how he does it. He does have an analytic mind and is very inquisitive. He has been consistently performing well in Reading and Math. But, I realize that IQ tests try to measure different type of skills. If I were to have my son re-take the IQ test, are there any restrictions on how long he has to wait? Can I have him test with a different psychologist? Just asking these questions to explore what my options are at this point. Although, I detest the thought of spending $$ again on testing. I thought of the possibility that he could've had a bad day, etc. I would think so. It is also heavily dependent on psychologist's skill. he doesn't have any DYS level peers (or at least I have not explored fully). If your kid had EXPLORE test, then you may find kids at your son's level in those talent search centers such as NUMATS, TIP, or any interest group such math club, writers club, etc.
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Joined: May 2009
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TX G Mom - Wow, thanks for sharing your experience. This does give us a glimmer of hope Although, I am not raising our hopes too high. His Explore scores are as follows: English - 21 (missed 4 on rhetorical) 87% Reading - 25 100% Math - 18 83% Science - 14 11% Composite - 20 92% According to DYS site, Composite, Reading and English scores qualify. My DD was accepted into DYS with achievement scores and a portfolio. We did submit reference letters from her teachers, along with school testing scores and work samples. (Helpful Hint: We also requested test scores from our entire school district under the Open Records Act. We actually found that DD was performing better than 1 in 1,000 students that were a year or two older than she was!)
If the EXPLORE results are really strong, you should submit those too.
Bottom line, it is possible to qualify with achievement scores. Good luck! Sorry I crossed posted with that last post of mine. So, at 10 is he a 4th grader or a 5th grader and were the WJ achievement scores grade normed or age normed? I ask b/c, in looking @ the DYS site, I see that reading, English, and composite make the DYS cut for a 4th grader but he misses by just one point on English for a 5th grader. If he's a 4th grader and the scores were age normed on the WJ, especially depending on which version of the WJ it is, I'd think that they would be more impressive and more likely to overcome the IQ scores not quite making it. Oops, sorry I missed in your OP that he is grade skipped and a 5th grader. They might be willing to consider his age and look at how his scores compare to a child in the grade he "should" be in. Also, I'd now say that the WJ scores might hold more weight if they are *grade* normed rather than age normed.
Last edited by Cricket2; 04/14/13 04:44 PM.
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Joined: Apr 2011
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Cricket2 - Yes, of course. I greatly appreciate your candid assessment. I am pretty sure DYS admissions committee will be pretty ruthless in assessing whether an application makes the cut or not. Regardless, we are very pleased with the test results and they do confirm that he needs additional enrichment as you suggested. My DD was accepted into DYS with achievement scores (WIAT-II) and a portfolio, even though her WISC-IV scores fell short. You are the first person here that I recall posting that but it is good to know that there is another side to the story. I totally understand if you don't want to be more specific here, but were your dd's WISC scores very far off? It sounds like the achievement piece was very strong but I wonder how far off one can be on IQ and have another piece offset it. The OP's IQ scores might also be offset if, like you say, the Explore scores were well beyond the minimum DYS numbers and/or if some unusual scatter within the WISC subtests depressed the subtest scores. I was less optimistic b/c the posted achievement scores weren't well beyond the minimum and the IQ scores aren't just off by a point or two. I could, of course, be wrong though and please do know that, either way, it sounds like you've got a child whose needs won't easily be met in a standard classroom.
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Joined: Apr 2011
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Cricket2 - You are right about Reading. I verified DYS criteria again and DS's scores seem to qualify for Math (18), Reading (25) and Composite (20). However, he does so barely on mark with the exception of Reading. As far as I can tell from NUMATS score report, it does appear that they are age adjusted scores. Thanks again for all your analysis!! Edit - Okay, I figured out how to edit my posts rather than posting multiple responses to you, Cricket You make a very good point that the scores are age-adjusted, but who knows what DYS considers for their assessments. We may have a chance if they would consider grade-adjusted scores.
Last edited by Rayson; 04/14/13 04:54 PM.
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Joined: Apr 2011
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Explore Test on your report from ACT will be based off of 8th grade norms. The NUMATS report will be a grade based percentile.
I think Cricket2 was asking about the WIAT scores being age or grade normed.
Those can make a big jump in either direction depending on the norming. My DD had scores for WJ age and graded normed. She had some subtest jump up as many as 10 points on her standard score because she is particularly young for her grade.
Davidson may look more critically at applications with a portfolio and achievement scores using the more favorable scoring. If a child is particularly young or old for the grade the scores will definitely change based on the norming.
Do you know if the WIAT was age or grade normed? If he is in 5th and young for his grade the norming will change the numbers.
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Joined: Apr 2011
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Thanks Jtooit. I will check with the psychologist to confirm if the scores are grade-normed or age-normed. Explore Test on your report from ACT will be based off of 8th grade norms. The NUMATS report will be a grade based percentile.
I think Cricket2 was asking about the WIAT scores being age or grade normed.
Those can make a big jump in either direction depending on the norming. My DD had scores for WJ age and graded normed. She had some subtest jump up as many as 10 points on her standard score because she is particularly young for her grade.
Davidson may look more critically at applications with a portfolio and achievement scores using the more favorable scoring. If a child is particularly young or old for the grade the scores will definitely change based on the norming.
Do you know if the WIAT was age or grade normed? If he is in 5th and young for his grade the norming will change the numbers.
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 72
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Cricket2 - DD’s WIAT-II scores were strong for Math and Writing at age 8, but lower in Reading. Reading 130 Mathematics 160 Written Language 160 Her WISC-IV scores were lower at age 8 (134). Interesting enough, her WISC-IV scores at age 6 varied slightly. (Wouldn’t it be nice if they could take the highest scores from each test to calculate her FSIQ?) I did have to do some legwork to find data to submit with the portfolio. The school district test scores were a bit tricky to obtain, but I was able to find information to support the 99.9% DYS was looking for. DD also had a double grade skip in Math, and her teacher was teaching math at a grade above, so I submitted math samples that were +3 grades ahead. It has been an interesting journey. My DD was accepted into DYS with achievement scores (WIAT-II) and a portfolio, even though her WISC-IV scores fell short. You are the first person here that I recall posting that but it is good to know that there is another side to the story. I totally understand if you don't want to be more specific here, but were your dd's WISC scores very far off? It sounds like the achievement piece was very strong but I wonder how far off one can be on IQ and have another piece offset it. The OP's IQ scores might also be offset if, like you say, the Explore scores were well beyond the minimum DYS numbers and/or if some unusual scatter within the WISC subtests depressed the subtest scores. I was less optimistic b/c the posted achievement scores weren't well beyond the minimum and the IQ scores aren't just off by a point or two. I could, of course, be wrong though and please do know that, either way, it sounds like you've got a child whose needs won't easily be met in a standard classroom.
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 192
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TX G Mom, thanks for sharing, that's interesting. Did you include the WISC scores in your application?
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 72
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W'sMama - Yes, I did submit WISC scores in the DYS application. However, as a result, I received a kickback because GAI was not calculated in her original scoring submitted. So, even if you are not applying based on WISC scores, you will still need to provide the GAI. (I sent in the requested GAI information and DD was accepted the following month.) TX G Mom, thanks for sharing, that's interesting. Did you include the WISC scores in your application?
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